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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 11/17/2006 10:34:23 PM   
diamondave



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grind

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 11/19/2006 2:25:57 PM   
diamondave



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well i was working on rolling circles on the sim, tried it with the "real" plane yesterday, i can get about a half circle of rolls before i start getting behind the plane, i am rolling kinda quick i think, but i did that half circle about 3 times, so i am getting there, and i got to say, even though its only half way there, it looks pretty f#u*k*ng cool...

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 11/19/2006 3:49:30 PM   
MikeEast



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COOL! Keep going. The hardest part will be that last 1/4 where the plane is coming back at you.

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RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 11/24/2006 12:17:04 AM   
Cooper 1


 

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What sim are you flying in the videos? Is it Aerofly Pro?

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RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 11/24/2006 1:03:38 AM   
MikeEast



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That is Aero Fly Pro Deluxe

www.aeroflypro.com

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RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 11/28/2006 7:48:42 PM   
shakes268



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I've started working on harriers (sadly, I can do rolling harriers straight and then turn them back down the field...but just never practiced harriers)...

Here is the thing, I go up, flip the plane over in a waterfall to inverted and as it starts to come down in an inverted elevator I start adding power and well, it goes into a nice inverted flat spin. Now, I can assume I'm doing a couple of things wrong....

1) I might be using too much elevator - is that correct? Should I let the nose drop a little or should I immediately start pulling (pushing) to a 45 degree angle?

2) I need to adjust my throttle curve. It's a DA-100 and it really has a tons of power - so the addition of power so far for me has been difficult - it either goes into the flat spin or just hangs there, motionless and eventually pulls vertical.

3) I'm unintentionally hitting the aileron and inducing the spin.

Which of these is most likely to be the problem when someone is starting work on these?

Something though - since I'm still fairly new to all of this How do you *KNOW* you're in high alpha? My QQ 102" Yak honestly feels the same no matter what attitude its in. I figured there'd be quite a bit of difference in control surface response but its pretty awesome that I haven't seen a single control surface dead spot.

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 11/28/2006 10:21:22 PM   
diamondave



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i use expo on my throttle for the same reason, i am up to 50% now, its a zdz80, but it really helps trying to fine toon a spot with the throttle, i'd try that no matter what, and as far as harriers, i just come in normal and flip her over, cut the power, as it slows i start adding down ele(inverted harriers i am talking about), then feed in throttle, i can get them pretty darn good, no wing rock, i got good at aileron to counter that, then using throttle and ele i can bring it down lower and cruise right buy, its cool, the more throttle the less ele, and visa versa, does any of that make sense?, then i steer with rudder, but need to counter with ail when doing that or it can tip over

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 12/16/2006 6:49:47 AM   
RC MANIAC119


 

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Mike...............the only 3d maneuver I have Not been able to conquer is the rolling 360......so I broke out the Sim...G2, and taught myself.

I thought I was doing pretty good, until I noticed..(in other peoples videos) That for some strange reason I am doing it backwards!!! Or am I??

When I start the roll to the left side..(wings rolling counter-clockwise).........my circle is also going to the left. With a right roll (clockwise) the circle is also going clockwise.

Now the real problem is that when I realized what I had done, I tried to do it like everyone else (rolling left, circle to the right).....I CANT DO IT, no matter how hard I try....the plane refuses to go in that direction.

Did I invent a new maneuver?

What would you recommend I try to correct this............

Thanks

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 12/16/2006 6:54:02 AM   
akschu



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I also have a question.... After hours and hours on G3 I can finally do a rolling harrier. Rolling right is completely natural now (can even do it on my mojo), rolling left is harder, but doable, but sometimes I do it straight and sometimes I do it in a circle. So the question is how do you steer the rolling harrier?

schu

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 12/16/2006 2:36:08 PM   
MikeEast



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quote:

ORIGINAL: RC MANIAC119

Mike...............the only 3d maneuver I have Not been able to conquer is the rolling 360......so I broke out the Sim...G2, and taught myself.

I thought I was doing pretty good, until I noticed..(in other peoples videos) That for some strange reason I am doing it backwards!!! Or am I??

When I start the roll to the left side..(wings rolling counter-clockwise).........my circle is also going to the left. With a right roll (clockwise) the circle is also going clockwise.

Now the real problem is that when I realized what I had done, I tried to do it like everyone else (rolling left, circle to the right).....I CANT DO IT, no matter how hard I try....the plane refuses to go in that direction.

Did I invent a new maneuver?

What would you recommend I try to correct this............

Thanks



No that is normal. Some peopple roll right and some left, some turn to the inside and some outside. When its all said and done you should be able to roll left or right and steer the plane anywhere you want to go while rolling either direction including in a stright line. You can all ascend, descend, and loop while doing rolling harriers. It takes major sticktime to get proficient at rolling harriers. You just have to keep practicing and it will come eventually. I know that is not any HELP perse', but thats really it. Learning RH is about sheer determination. If you can do it the way you are doing it now there is nothing anyone can tell you, apply that knowledge and keep practicing!!!

I am assuming you are talking about rolling harriers, not just normal rollers??

< Message edited by MikeEast -- 12/16/2006 2:54:29 PM >


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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 12/16/2006 2:53:01 PM   
MikeEast



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quote:

ORIGINAL: akschu

I also have a question.... After hours and hours on G3 I can finally do a rolling harrier. Rolling right is completely natural now (can even do it on my mojo), rolling left is harder, but doable, but sometimes I do it straight and sometimes I do it in a circle. So the question is how do you steer the rolling harrier?

schu



To steer a rolling harrier you have to use the elevator and the rudder. Whatever surface is vertical becomes the rudder. Also you have to learn how to rudder correct "correctly" when the plane is inverted. Again, steering is not some thing that you can really teach or explain,,, its something you just do... Rolling harriers are just like learning to ride a bike.. To learn how to do it,,, you just have to get on the bike and do it. If you can already comfortably do a rolling harrier in one direction then there is not much to teach..

All I can say is PRACTICE,,, and focus on seeing what the airplane is doing... I am assuming that going in a circle is easier. IF so the first step is controlling the size of the circle. Practice on making the circle larger, smaller,,, the point is it should be the diamter that you want it to be,, not the siz that it just happens to end up. When you can make a circle that is the size you want it time after time and you can maintain a steady altitiude (not just the altitude it happens to end up at) you will be ready to move on.

I have said this before... Its like hitting a 100mph fastball.. At first when you try it it is so fast that you cannot possibly see it coming or time your swing... But after a while it starts to get easier and it does not seem so fast. Same thing here, in time the airplane will not seem to be so far ahead of you and you can just look at it and clearly see what corrections need to be made.


Last you guys REALLY need to practice FLYING and I mean controlled flying if you have not already.. You will never fly pretty 3D if you cannot fly and roll in a straight line at a constant attitude and do it in control and with purpose... You should be able to do slow rolls that are slow, flat, evenly paced rolls the length of the field. You should be able to rudder correct smoothly and correctly. Places to test this are in a loop, flying inverted in a STRAIGHT line holding a STRAIGHT line at a constant altitude parallel to the runway while inverted. Learn to rudder correct flying in a vertical upline and downline with the canopy or belly facing you. If you cannot do these things, then really rudder intensive stuff like rolling harriers, especially straight line or specifically steered RH's are going to be difficult if not impossible to crisply control.

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 12/16/2006 8:50:20 PM   
bubbagates



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quote:

Last you guys REALLY need to practice FLYING and I mean controlled flying if you have not already.. You will never fly pretty 3D if you cannot fly and roll in a straight line at a constant attitude and do it in control and with purpose... You should be able to do slow rolls that are slow, flat, evenly paced rolls the length of the field. You should be able to rudder correct smoothly and correctly. Places to test this are in a loop, flying inverted in a STRAIGHT line holding a STRAIGHT line at a constant altitude parallel to the runway while inverted. Learn to rudder correct flying in a vertical upline and downline with the canopy or belly facing you. If you cannot do these things, then really rudder intensive stuff like rolling harriers, especially straight line or specifically steered RH's are going to be difficult if not impossible to crisply control.


I totally agree with this. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen decent 3D pilots but they cannot fly a roll on a straight line, hold a wind corrected up and down line, fly inverted through an outside loop or even just a long straight level upright pass down the runway.

I've seen too many go and try the IMAC basic sequence in a contest and get smoked but then at the same time they go and do some of the better freestyles. IMAC is not easy at first. straight wind corrected lines are an absolute must.

Once you can do all of that your 3D will definitely improve.

I am in no way putting down 3D flight. I'm not the greatest 3D pilot but I do love to see a good 3D show.

And just an update on turning this thread into a PDF. I tried 3 times to get it to look good and still be readable but it's not the easiest thing to do. I am sorry it is taking so long but between hospital time, assembly time and a promotion at work, my free time has been somewhat limited



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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 12/16/2006 9:43:19 PM   
akschu



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The explanation Mike gave didn't help me much since I knew that steering was done with whatever surface was up, but it did cause me to think about it and which caused me to realize what I was doing wrong. The problem is that sometimes I'm late to get off of the rudder or elevator. In order to go straight the control input must be in exact proportion to the roll.

As far as learning to do basic flying, your right. Now that I can do the thing I've been working on for a month, I'm moving onto other things (4 point roll) and finding it pretty difficult.

Anyway, thanks for the help,

schu

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 12/16/2006 11:50:50 PM   
diamondave



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akschu: that is a funny avatar pic

i too am working on a nice slow roll down the runway, i got the rudder down pretty good in both directions i tend to over correct while inverted and climb a bit, its a mental thing

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RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers - 12/17/2006 8:01:10 AM