RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing  
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RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/27/2006 1:56:21 PM   
daven



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		No, I'm for it.

Save us money? Not sure about that.

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Dave Norman

klasskote.com
supertrc.com

(in reply to luv to race)
       Post #: 51

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/27/2006 4:25:19 PM   
garys


 

Posts: 741
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		"Save us money? Not sure about that"

Are you saying that when the manufactures save money by not having to buy contest grade balsa to get close to 3.5lbs, and save $5 per kit, that they aren't going to pass that on to the consumers? But that was going to save racing and make everybody be able to do it! We were going to have an explosion in new blood!!

My only opposition of the weight increase was the reasoning. In my mind, none of the reasons was valid. Here are the ones I heard...

1. It would make it cheaper because people could use standard radio equipment. It won't. The manufactures will increase the weight of the bare airframs to save material costs and the time it takes to save every last ounce.

2. It would make it so that people building wood airplanes can meet minimum weight. People were making minimum weight wood airplanes before the composites came in, even with heavier radio equipment than we have available today. In fact, when the composites started, the ones flying them were pushing for weight increases so they wouldn't have a weight disadvantage to the wood airplanes...DID PEOPLE FORGET HOW TO BUILD?

3. Increasing the weight limit will level the playing field. Wrong. Increasing the weight of all the airplanes, if anything, will give a greater advantage to those that fly the smoothest and have the callers that can give the best launches. Lets watch Randy get more Nats wins

I know the rule is going to pass. If somebody gave a good, logical reason for increasing the weight, I would've been happy to support it. I guess I should be happy, I feel I'm a good flyer, and my caller gives good launches, so it's going to work out to my advantage at times.

Well, I'm off my soapbox and off to work...
GS

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GS

(in reply to daven)
       Post #: 52

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/27/2006 4:49:03 PM   
daven



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I've struggled hitting minimum weight with my quickies. Primarily because of how I build my tails, how I like to reinforce the inside of the fuse, and because I like to fiberglass and paint my planes. It is very tough for me to hit 3lbs 8 oz, I'm normally 2-3 oz heavy. It really won't change how I do things, it will just give me a little weight to add to my C.G., or use a little more paint to make it look nice.

To me, an average builder, it will help.

I think it will be good for 424 because most of the available arfs are heavy, even if you use light weight stuff. The people who fly them feel they are at a disadvantage because of the weight when they fly against someone who built a kit.

I doubt The cost of composites will come down at all. Why would they? A slight savings on using medium balsa, not a big deal.

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Dave Norman

klasskote.com
supertrc.com

(in reply to garys)
       Post #: 53

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/27/2006 5:38:15 PM   
DHG


 

Posts: 896
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Gary,

The cost saving comes in not having to buy a composite in the first place, not that the composites themselves are going to cost less ... although they could, if hollow molding weren't the only option for wings.

I can build a very good airplane at 3-3/4 lbs., and it's basically free to me. At least the cost of materials is low, and it's spread out over time. I could build several right now with what I have squirrelled away in my basement. But if I want to come run with you big dogs at a major contest, I'll want a 3.5 lb. airplane. For that I have to write a $450 check, plus another if I want to bring a backup airplane. Big difference!

Two Shotguns equals one mortgage payment ... and as we all know, racing isn't for the homeless!

Wage Slave

(in reply to daven)
       Post #: 54

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/27/2006 6:06:39 PM   
Super Splatter



Posts: 382
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: , MN, USA
Status: offline 		It's all political. Lyle submitted it for his bird of weight problems

(in reply to daven)
       Post #: 55

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/27/2006 6:52:39 PM   
garys


 

Posts: 741
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Duane,

I wish two Shotguns equaled a mortgage payment where I live, I've seen people pay more than that just in property taxes and insurance!

Many people didn't have problems building 3.5lb wood airplanes before. My last several woodies all had lead in them to get up to 3.5lbs. I didn't start flying composites until 2003, so to say that a 3.5lb airplane can't handle the speeds they're reaching now is wrong. I didn't do anything special with my woodies to keep them light. The fuses had a 1/64 ply doubler from the firewall to behind the wing, with an additional doubler of 1/32 ply doubler from the firewall to behind the front wing and gear blocks. DelPonte's Revo's were regularly underweight as well. I went 1:05's with monokoted, wood airplanes that had, on average, 2 ounces of lead in it to get to minimum weight. Also, none of my Q500's ever had 4-6lb "contest" grade balsa. I used only standard 6-8lb wood.

If I had the time and the desire, I could still easily build a 3.5lb woodie, and not be any less competitive. The only reason I don't is time...and the lack of desire to build a square box after 18+ years of racing Q500's. I'd rather write a check and get a plane that I can have done in a couple of hours.

I tend to agree with Super Splatter as to the true reasoning of the proposal. While some have worked and learned how to make minimum weight airplanes, both wood and composite, others would rather just increase the weights to make it easier for themselves.

< Message edited by garys -- 7/28/2006 12:52:56 AM >

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GS

(in reply to Super Splatter)
       Post #: 56

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/28/2006 12:35:10 AM   
ALbert.S


 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Roseville, MN, USA
Status: offline 		It's "Buy and Fly" not "Build and Fly" Our local NCPL rules make the builder take off LAST !!!! We have to give the ARF 's a head start because they are heavy So If you have built a kit or modified a ARF you go on the second flag. Hows that for promoting racing You wonder why we are losing flyers

(in reply to garys)
       Post #: 57

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/28/2006 2:20:59 AM   
HighPlains


 

Posts: 2640
Joined: 3/2/2003
From: Over da rainbow, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Good post Gary. You've given away the secret to building an underweight quickie. Some wood airplane designs were bumping 170 over a decade ago, the composites have just allowed more to do it with just a check.

As far as the weight increase, if it goes through, I expect even more wing failures initially (while existing airframes are used up). But in the long run, it should increase wing strength for 428, and make the lead sleds known as ARF's......well, they will still be lead sleds, but at least they won't feel so bad about their weight disadvantage.

_____________________________

In politics if you want anything said, ask a man. If you want anything done, ask a woman - Margaret Thatcher

(in reply to ALbert.S)
       Post #: 58

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/28/2006 2:33:41 AM   
BUDMAN27



Posts: 1116
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Galveston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		So far I have herd alot from all you guys that have raced a lot. It would be nice to here from some of you guys out there that are new or thinking of start racing Q-500,s. As far as I,m concern Its a good thing and I,m for it. but I,m bies because I only fly those so called lead sleads better known as ARF,s.

(in reply to HighPlains)
       Post #: 59

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/28/2006 3:38:08 PM   
burgster


 

Posts: 110
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I am a new 428 racer, just went to my first contest (nats) and had a great time(I was with Ed Smith, so we did a lot of drinking). If you want to revitalize racing you need to revitalize the competetive spirit in this country. That's all it takes. In todays world of instant gratification, people get what they want when they want it. If they can't have this form of instant gratification they will move onto something different. Airplane racing is no different. People buy the airplanes and motors and expect to win. When this doesn't happen they move onto to different stuff where they get their instant gratification. I bought airplanes and motors and went to the nats and got lapped twice in the first heat by Terry Frazier. I have been racing something for as long as I can remember and i have the competetive spirit, and being lapped twice, although a little embarassing, is just going to make me work harder. This spirit is what I think is lacking. Model airplane racing is somewhat cheap compared to other forms of racing or sports for that matter. I think the speeds are inconsequentail (this of cousre is assuming that you are a cappable pilot) because once you are up there racing, it feels like the thing is nailed to the ground. Back to my original point, how many people in todays age in america are going to spend the money to buy composites or take to the time to build a competetive woodie and come out and get their ass handed to them, and continue to come back for more??? Answer: Not many. That is why racing is dying, and it is going to be tough to revitalize it. That is a newbie's point of view!

(in reply to BUDMAN27)
       Post #: 60

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/29/2006 3:28:22 AM   
BUDMAN27



Posts: 1116
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Galveston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you vary much Burgster. That is what I was looking for. What doesn,t kill us will make us stronger.

(in reply to burgster)
       Post #: 61

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/29/2006 1:15:26 PM   
Stripes


 

Posts: 638
Joined: 5/17/2003
From: Orchard Park, New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: burgster
. . .I bought airplanes and motors and went to the nats and got lapped twice in the first heat by Terry Frazier. . . .


Heck, you have been lapping me twice per race for quite some time.

I have talked to several prospective fliers in our club and the stumbling point is their perception that it is all too fast for them.

(in reply to burgster)
       Post #: 62

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/29/2006 11:13:48 PM   
BUDMAN27



Posts: 1116
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Galveston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi DHG. I e-mailed 11 of the contest comity. and some of them have been e-mailing me back saying that they don,t have anything to do with voting for pylon race rules. I must be e-mailing the wrong people.

(in reply to luv to race)
       Post #: 63

RE: My thoughts about re-vitalizing pylon racing - 7/30/2006 11:44:58 PM   
DHG


 

Posts: 896
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Budman,

The Model Aviation magazine's competition section only lists the street addresses (snail mail addresses) of contest board members, not their e-mail info. That's probably just as well, since e-mail addresses change so often and anyway, how would they recognize a legitimate comment on a rule issue when there's so much spam coming in all the time? So a good old first-class letter with a stamp is the best. And won't they be surprised at the individual attention!

(in reply to BUDMAN27)
       Post #: 64 </