RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 AMP draw!  
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All Forums >> Electric Aircraft Universe >> Electric Pattern Aircraft >> RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 AMP draw!
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RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 A... - 7/10/2006 1:59:19 PM   
David Kyjovsky


 

Posts: 104
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: Prague, CZECH REPUBLIC
Status: offline 		I have recently fried the Standard C 50 XL 14 beyond repair (my fault, as it was an extremely hot day and I was alone at the field; I did not let the motor cool down properly between flights). I swapped the Competition C50 14 XL in and immediately realised that the power I was used to is not exactly there. Talking to Rainer Hacker, I learned that the new C50 is optimised for smooth response and really is somewhat less powerful than the Standard C 50. I was a bit perplexed to hear that... but I guess I have enough power even so.

(in reply to KeithB)
       Post #: 26

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 A... - 8/12/2006 8:08:06 PM   
KeithB



Posts: 533
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Garland, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I received my standard C50 back from Hacker following its rotor repair, but unfortunately the RPM’s are not back to what they were prior to the repair and the AMP draw is still much higher than before.

I built a test stand and performed numerous bench tests comparing the Standard Master 90 vs. the Competition Master 90 and the Standard (repaired) C50 with the Competition C50.

What I found is:

1. The standard Master 90 controller draws more AMPS on both motors than the COMP Master 90.
2. The standard Master 90 draws amperage in excess of what it used to draw and where I feel it should be, with both motors.
3. The COMP Master 90 is in the right amp range with the repaired Standard C50, but it’s about 500 to 800 RPM lower than what I use to get prior to the slipped rotor.
4. The COMP Master 90 with the Comp C50 is low on AMP draw and about 800 to 1000 RPM low compared to the initial Standard setup. (Unfortunately this is the combo I had to fly with at NATS)

I’ve attached a chart of my bench tests and for comparison I’ve included data from flights prior to the slipped rotor (both Standard and Competition controllers).

Keith B





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< Message edited by KeithB -- 8/12/2006 8:14:26 PM >

(in reply to David Kyjovsky)
       Post #: 27

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 A... - 8/12/2006 8:50:43 PM   
David Kyjovsky


 

Posts: 104
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: Prague, CZECH REPUBLIC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Kyjovsky

I have recently fried the Standard C 50 XL 14 beyond repair (my fault, as it was an extremely hot day and I was alone at the field; I did not let the motor cool down properly between flights). I swapped the Competition C50 14 XL in and immediately realised that the power I was used to is not exactly there. Talking to Rainer Hacker, I learned that the new C50 is optimised for smooth response and really is somewhat less powerful than the Standard C 50. I was a bit perplexed to hear that... but I guess I have enough power even so.


To be fair... with my new Hyperion VX 5000 I have 75A static and the power is ... just crazy. My most serious issue now is throttle management.. and I will probably have to limit my high throttle somewhat. The power drop going from Standard to Competition (motor) maybe is not there at all... it might have been just the batteries. Now I just have to measure the RPMs.

Having too much power is in any case much better than having too little

(in reply to David Kyjovsky)
       Post #: 28

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 A... - 8/13/2006 12:46:40 AM   
can773



Posts: 1654
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: online 		FWIW, I measured Andrew J. Hacker COMP while practising at the Nats. 22x12, TP 5300s, I dont know what his settings for the esc were. Anyways it turned about 5800 rpm and 69A. I forgot the volts but I guess it was around 33-34.


_____________________________

Chad Northeast

(in reply to David Kyjovsky)
       Post #: 29

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 A... - 8/13/2006 2:55:41 AM   
KeithB



Posts: 533
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Garland, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Chad,

Thanks for the data point. Do you know if Andrew was flying the 13 or 14 wind motor?

My Comp ESC - Comp Motor combo only gets into the upper 50 amp range.

By looking at the data I seem to have too high an amp draw with the Stander 90 ESC and too low with the Competition 90 ESC.

Keith

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 30

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 A... - 8/13/2006 4:55:18 AM   
can773



Posts: 1654
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithB

Chad,

Thanks for the data point. Do you know if Andrew was flying the 13 or 14 wind motor?

My Comp ESC - Comp Motor combo only gets into the upper 50 amp range.

By looking at the data I seem to have too high an amp draw with the Stander 90 ESC and too low with the Competition 90 ESC.

Keith


I am sure Andrew was flying the 14.

Could you have the timing set incorrectly? I dont know much about the Hackers sorry!


_____________________________

Chad Northeast

(in reply to KeithB)
       Post #: 31

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 A... - 8/13/2006 8:06:31 AM   
KeithB



Posts: 533
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Garland, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The timing setting I use is the same value as others that are having success with this setup, but it's probably worth experimenting with different settings. Thanks for the idea.

As to the Standard ESC - Standard C50 combo, as the earlier part of the thread discusses it was running great for about 100 flights, then suddenly went south without any setting changes.

Keith

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 32

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 A... - 8/18/2006 6:33:22 AM   
KeithB



Posts: 533
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Garland, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The picture is getting clearer. Based on my latest test flights I’ve drawn the following conclusions.

1. I think the Competition ESC and Standard C50 are both working properly.
2. Battery #1 is severely down on power (in fact in medium wind it did not have enough power to fly Masters adequately).
3. Battery #2 is down on power relative to where it was in May and June, but still has enough power to fly Master for a while. I’m not sure yet if it will be adequate to compete with next year.
4. Based on new information about the winds on the Competition motor and the realization that my batteries are a bit down on power I think the Competition C50 I have is probably also fine.
5. The crazy results I was seeing in my prior testing were due to a problem with the Standard Master 90 controller and my reduced battery power.

To draw the above conclusions I flew the Competition ESC with the rebuilt Standard C50 and a 21x14 prop.

I've attached four bitmaps from the data logger, two from these latest flights on battery packs #1 & #2, a third file using the same ESC/Motor/prop combo on 5-16-06, and the fourth using the Standard ESC/Standard C50 on 6-18-06. The plots display RPM and WATTS.

NOTE: Multiply the Watts on the charts by 2 for the correct values.

Keith


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(in reply to KeithB)
       Post #: 33

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 ... - 8/18/2006 8:57:00 AM   
patternrules


 

Posts: 548
Joined: 7/28/2002
From: Nineveh, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Keith chart #3 shows you flew for 18 minutes all others show 9 to 10 minutes, do you know what you replaced on that pack at the end of the flight. My guess would be that, that pack was way over discharged, probably the one you are having problems with.
Steve Maxwell

_____________________________

Steve Maxwell

(in reply to KeithB)
       Post #: 34

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 ... - 8/18/2006 4:44:26 PM   
KeithB



Posts: 533
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Garland, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Steve, if you look closely you'll see that the chart starts at minute 9, not 1. This is because it was the second session (flight) in the log. It also looks like there's more data in the chart because it's zoomed in more.

Also, the spike at the end is noise (a bug that used to be in the logger).

Keith

(in reply to patternrules)
       Post #: 35

RE: Worried about Significant change in Hacker C-50 ... - 8/18/2006 4:51:57 PM   
patternrules


 

Posts: 548
Joined: 7/28/2002
From: Nineveh, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Ok good I didn't notice that it started at 9, didn't think any battery would go 18 minutes, without being on fire LOL.
Steve Maxwell

_____________________________

Steve Maxwell

(in reply to KeithB)
       Post #: 36

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