NITRO Crawlin'........

NITRO Crawlin'........
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NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/7/2006 11:15:21 PM

byebye

Posts: 151
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From: Smalltown, PE, ARGENTINA
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Yup, there are more problems than an electric crawler would have to deal with in a lifetime of 'lectic crawling.....but it will be done, BET on it. So wake up Nitro Nutz, just step over or cliuck on the ignore button when the hard core naysayers jump in, then we ain't even gotta read their dribble.
And if they had any common courtesy, they wouldn't even bother to post in a thread, where they have NO interes, and only want to antagonize.....they would just let us be!

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 12:48:42 AM

hands without shadows

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From: Denfield, ON, CANADA
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Question, no offense, whats the point of this thread?

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 1:05:59 AM

Posts: 69
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From: Juneau, AK, USA
Status: offline

To give the true Nitro crawlers a place to post and to talk about the issues to be delt with. Not to battle on the suject of electric is better and nitro cant crawl.

Steve

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 1:32:11 AM

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From: sparta, NJ, USA
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It's not like a working nitro crawler is "innovation" it's just...pointless. Don't be confused with hating nitro merely because it's different, it's different in a bad way.

We just don't like when people don't realize it and push it

(in reply to mechanicalbob)

RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 2:00:04 AM

Posts: 69
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From: Juneau, AK, USA
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Well electric was pointless at one point in time but it made it main steam. The first Nitro RC was said will never catch on but the WEN company made them and brought nitro main stream in the late 60's. They used airplane engines with a direct drive to the axle. So a nitro crawler is not poiontless if that is what you want and that is what I want and am making one to compete with the electric or beat them at there own game.

Steve

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 3:12:19 AM

byebye

Posts: 151
Joined: 7/7/2006
From: Smalltown, PE, ARGENTINA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mechanicalbob

Well electric was pointless at one point in time but it made it main steam. The first Nitro RC was said will never catch on but the WEN company made them and brought nitro main stream in the late 60's. They used airplane engines with a direct drive to the axle. So a nitro crawler is not poiontless if that is what you want and that is what I want and am making one to compete with the electric or beat them at there own game.

Steve

Exactly.....those that say it's pointless, don't have a clue......

So get used to seeing NITRO threads.....I did a search......there are 3 PAGES of them in this section about crawling, and anytime I see something interesting in one, even if it's THREE years old, I'll respond to it to help generate interest. If any of y'all don't wanna read 'em, skip over 'em, but we are NOT enterring your electrical discussions with negative posts, we'd appreciate the same courtesy.

< Message edited by highoctaneuser -- 7/8/2006 6:26:23 AM >

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 3:39:07 AM

dezfan

Posts: 1418
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From: Oak Grove, MO, USA
Status: online

I'll be at the USRCCA National Invitational Crawling Championship in September. It is being held in Moab UT.

I'll be waiting on a competitive nitro crawler to show up and prove it.

Good luck!

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07 CMRCRC 2.2 Champ / 07 KC 2.2 Mid West Champ / 2 Time USRCCA Qualif

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 5:55:39 AM

byebye

Posts: 151
Joined: 7/7/2006
From: Smalltown, PE, ARGENTINA
Status: offline

I'm glad for ya dez, but as it's a hobby for me, I work my time schedule. When, and yes if, I'm satisfied with the results of my labor, I'll bring it out. But since you aren't paying the bills, your time frame, and challenge mean squat........So little in fact, you just gained the ignore button, you never wanna help, and throw only obstacles and derogatory comments out for us Nitro guys, so since I don't choose to read any of the threads you have started, or any of your threads anywhere else, it's better to just not to even look at them.

Have fun with your stick, a very capable machine indeeed, thought up and designed by a very intelligent craftsman......good thing the sport is full of folks like that, so you can play, huh?

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 6:14:17 AM

dezfan

Posts: 1418
Joined: 2/15/2006
From: Oak Grove, MO, USA
Status: online

Funny, I don't run a Stick.

I am however testing a few innovative chassis at the moment. Your right, innovation is key part of crawling.

I just don't see nitro as an innovation in the crawling arena, more of a curiosity.

As for the ignore. Sorry you feel that way, like I said, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Just as you are.

Good luck w/ your pursuit of the nitro crawler. I'll be watching.

Dez

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07 CMRCRC 2.2 Champ / 07 KC 2.2 Mid West Champ / 2 Time USRCCA Qualif

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 3:25:09 PM

Posts: 69
Joined: 11/7/2002
From: Juneau, AK, USA
Status: offline

Hey Dezfan your are testing a chassis right? My question have you ever built a chassis from scratch? and I don't mean from a kit but from raw aluminum stock bar and plate? Or spun your own aluminum rims to be narrower than stock?
These are what making a crawler fun starting from nothing and getting a great crawler in the end and knowing that you built it.
The majority of electric chassis I see out there have a 4-link setup and not to many 3-link setups do you know why that is? I don't but I can take a guess on it. Someone has not made one to work well but when they do it will be great, because a 3-link will give you more articulation, and a few other lil things.
The point is that there is more to a NITRO crawler than just the engine and its lil issues, and I have those worked out now thanks to a Heli friend. Some of the other problems are suspension and how to get the most out your setup and there is the CG factor. Nice thing about a Model engines is that you can lay them flat on your chassis to help get the CG down too. Of course there are other things to work out as well.

As for your lil challenge Sure it would be nice to make it there to show off, like I said in another post I should have my Nitro Crawler done in late summer. Providing I can get all the bugs worked out of it and I can find the time I would love to go and Crawl.

Also Dez have you ever seen a 1:1 electric crawler? I never have, who knows maybe there will be a 1:1 electric crawler. My point in this is that 1:1 crawlers all are powered by fuel (gas/diesel) and alot of them are street drivin as well, (I know the comp vehicles are not.) with the engines they are running are standard type mills. They want the power in a mill. So they look at a the mid range of there engine and do there gear setup from there because that is where the !QUOT!sweet!QUOT! spot of torque is.

Steve

(in reply to dezfan)

RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 9:32:36 PM

hands without shadows

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Ya, but gasoline and diesel engines have torque, nitro not so much. You could gear it for the sweet spot but your throttle would be wide open the whole time right?

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/8/2006 11:02:00 PM

byebye

Posts: 151
Joined: 7/7/2006
From: Smalltown, PE, ARGENTINA
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As an engine can be mechanically alterred to rev higher and produce HP in the higher ranges, so too can a 2 stroke be mechanically tuned to produce torque at LOWER RPM's, and run on low (5%) on NO nitro content fuel( MUCH easier to cool). It is simply having an understanding of what makes the engine tic, what and HOW to modify it to give the desired results.........

The entire endeavor id one of making a working vehicle, not a single part, and it will take time. Again...."not .....yada yada yada...." because you can't take it out of the package and play in a couple of hours.......yeah, so what's YOUR point.

Remember the ole saying, if you haven't got anything good to say.....don't say anything...... NITRO Crawling is bound to confound and confuse 99% of crawlers out there, and a percentage of those will alwaysbe adamant against us.......but as we don't try to sabotage the electrical threads, please leave us to our passion in peace too.

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I only work on engines I LIKE.....WHEN I feel like it....IF it pays enough !!!

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/9/2006 3:09:31 AM

hands without shadows

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From: Denfield, ON, CANADA
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Um 5 percent or no percent nitro will run cooler? I dont know about 0 percent but as the nitro percentage increases a nitro engine runs cooler, im an electric guy and even I knew that.

Someday when nitro catches up to electric in this field I will build a steampowered crawler!!!

< Message edited by hands without shadows -- 7/9/2006 3:10:45 AM >

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/9/2006 4:24:08 AM

byebye

Posts: 151
Joined: 7/7/2006
From: Smalltown, PE, ARGENTINA
Status: offline

Not necessarilly......Nitro Methane is an oxidizer which allows more of a base fuel to be added to a closed combstion chamber than the available air content would normally fire,,,,,
In low percentages you may be correct, but as most trucks operate with 20 or 30% nitro, 0% will be a cooler mixture.......IF the porting set-up is changed from an engine designed to operate in the mid 30K rpm range to a porting set-up for LOW TEENS as n 11-13K rpms........
It is not a matter of changing ONE item, like fuel....read the entire post....we're reworking everything! How hard is that to understand????????

'nother one of those "I saw a nitro run one day...so now I'm an expert...." Where do they come from.....
BLOCK BUTTON!

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I only work on engines I LIKE.....WHEN I feel like it....IF it pays enough !!!

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/9/2006 7:00:11 AM

dezfan

Posts: 1418
Joined: 2/15/2006
From: Oak Grove, MO, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: mechanicalbob

Hey Dezfan your are testing a chassis right? My question have you ever built a chassis from scratch? and I don't mean from a kit but from raw aluminum stock bar and plate? Or spun your own aluminum rims to be narrower than stock?
These are what making a crawler fun starting from nothing and getting a great crawler in the end and knowing that you built it.
The majority of electric chassis I see out there have a 4-link setup and not to many 3-link setups do you know why that is? I don't but I can take a guess on it. Someone has not made one to work well but when they do it will be great, because a 3-link will give you more articulation, and a few other lil things.
The point is that there is more to a NITRO crawler than just the engine and its lil issues, and I have those worked out now thanks to a Heli friend. Some of the other problems are suspension and how to get the most out your setup and there is the CG factor. Nice thing about a Model engines is that you can lay them flat on your chassis to help get the CG down too. Of course there are other things to work out as well.

As for your lil challenge Sure it would be nice to make it there to show off, like I said in another post I should have my Nitro Crawler done in late summer. Providing I can get all the bugs worked out of it and I can find the time I would love to go and Crawl.

Also Dez have you ever seen a 1:1 electric crawler? I never have, who knows maybe there will be a 1:1 electric crawler. My point in this is that 1:1 crawlers all are powered by fuel (gas/diesel) and alot of them are street driven as well, (I know the comp vehicles are not.) with the engines they are running are standard type mills. They want the power in a mill. So they look at a the mid range of there engine and do there gear setup from there because that is where the !QUOT!sweet!QUOT! spot of torque is.

Steve

Actually, I have been the test pilot (for lack of a better word) on a few chassis. I just finished testing the XL4 2.2 TLT chassis by RD 400. It is now available for sale to the public.

I an currently testing the XRC 2.2 chassis for Xtreme RC and this is the chasis I will be using at the USRCCA National Invatationals in September.

I also have prototype Super chassis that is a a torsion based chassis which uses no shocks. I'm not the alpha tester. More of a beta tester on this one.

It's called the Claw and is made by CPE. (Pic of chassis below)

Have I ever built a chassis from scratch? Yes, a few of them as a matter of fact. None of which were of the caliper of the Stick, NN, or Claw.

I have never spun my own wheels as I don't own a lathe. But I have narrowed many a wheel for crawler use.

I will agree that the build is nearly as much of a pleasure as crawling.

As for the 3 - 4 link question, I have seen several 3 link set ups. They work well. As for providing more articulation? I'll let you in on a little know secret. ARTICULATION IS WAY OVER RATED!

Anything over 60 degrees is a waste.

There are a few new designs out that use pan car pivots as their means of articulation w/ out shocks and they have won events (P.A.R.C. 2.2 Champion uses this chassis of his own design and it works awesome!).

I can respect your desire to build it from nothing. I can respect the skill it takes to build it. And I hope it works.

I think my POV on this matter is misunderstood.

My "anti" nitro stance isn't that it can't be done, it has more to do w/ the majority of people w/ nitro not having the skills or determination that you possess and who might try crawling w/ their T Max or Revo and fail, get frustrated, and not look any further into the sport of crawling.

As for the 1:1 electric crawler, well you have me there. I havent seen one.

That being said. I think it has more to do w/ available battery technology and the weight of those batteries more so than lack of power from electric motors.

After all, freight trains use diesel motors (which we all now have TONS of torque), but they use them to power ELECTRIC motors which actually do the work.

I've enjoyed discussing this w/ you Steve, good luck! And I look forward to seeing your progress.

Dez

< Message edited by dezfan -- 7/9/2006 7:05:40 AM >

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07 CMRCRC 2.2 Champ / 07 KC 2.2 Mid West Champ / 2 Time USRCCA Qualif

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/9/2006 6:29:35 PM

hands without shadows

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From: Denfield, ON, CANADA
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Man highoctane user, easy there. Did I ever claim to be an expert? Anyways, the fact is nitro isnt as good as electric in this area. Actually I cant think of any area where nitro would be better than electric but theres a reason for that. Electric motors are used in more than rc applications so therefore theres more developments made in it. If you guys just all stick to it the companies will see ppl want crawlers, and nitro ones at that. And maybe eventually nitro will be better but right now its not. Ill stick with electric because IMO I dont think nitro will ever be better (dont flame me for this, its MY opinion and you cant do anything about it) but if someday it is better than I guess I'll be embarrased and you guys get to call yourself the originals, the ones that never gave up, the pioneers!

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RE: NITRO Crawlin'........ - 7/10/2006 12:03:07 AM

The Real Dogman

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From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: online

WOW! You guys are intense!!!

I just had to chime in.

Electric!!!!!! Holy cow, why does it have to be better or worse, Packaging is a natural for crawling physics...You hardcore builders and crawlers know what I mean. So that superior attitude is somewhat warranted. I like how well adapted electric crawlers have evolved. Especially when they are abit different from mainstream. Those are true innovators....

Nitro!!!!Now thats something to see, hear even smell!!!!Any Nitro Sport Is Not Just A Spectator Sport, Its More Like An Experience. Besides, Nitro RC Rock Crawling Would Be Something New and Exicting To Experience, Soo Lets Go Boy's!!! Lets Do Our Best To Try Something New!!! I have Thought Alot About Building A very Powerful and Big Rock Crawler Based On The CEN NX76 Engine Since it has such killer torque And To Package It Low Would Be A Fun Challenge..Is'nt what the RC Hobbie Is All About FUN!!

So All this what's better or best is not really the point, now is it. Its Really all about fun, I happen to think it would be fun to develope a new way to do something..

Thats Just My Opinion Tho

< Message edited by dogman_1@hotmail.com -- 7/10/2006 12:04:04 AM >

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