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RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 1/29/2007 3:02:49 PM   
rctom



Posts: 5329
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Flower Mound (near Dallas), TX, USA
Status: offline 		The term "Harrier" is somewhat loosely defined. Can you clarify what you are doing?

My understanding of a Harrier is a high angle of attack descent with power at idle. If this is true thrust angle has little to dowith anything since there is virtually no thrust being generated.

TF

(in reply to Greg Cothern)
       Post #: 376

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 1/29/2007 11:00:52 PM   
Greg Cothern



Posts: 596
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Seagoville, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Tom, a Harrier to me means, high alpha angle with a tad bit more power to keep it from falling basically able to hold altitude and fly in slow walking speed forward flight. For it to just drop in this high alpha angle would be a elevator, right??
Anyway, enough power to not loose or not gain altitude. Again I am sure its not thrust angle but wanted to ask anyway to better educate myself LoL.
Thanks.

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(in reply to rctom)
       Post #: 377

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/2/2007 8:14:25 PM   
paulflys4fun


 

Posts: 84
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Flintshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I have just had my extra arrive. I am made up with the quality of the kit. I was planning to order a new ZDZ60 for it, but now looking again i see the ZDZ80 is the same size and weight. Do you think the ZDZ80 will be to much for it in turns of torque. I am sure it would be under proped as i think a 26" prop will struggle with ground clearance. I wanted the ZDZ80 for long term plans 33% model in a year or two. Am i going to spoil this model by buying the wrong engine now?

Regards

Paul

(in reply to Greg Cothern)
       Post #: 378

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/2/2007 8:37:58 PM   
JimRoss



Posts: 1127
Joined: 2/18/2003
From: Humble, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Paul, mine flies like a bandit with the DA-50 in it. The ZDZ 60 would be really great with it but the 80 would just be a waste of money and unusable power. That sucker would pull the color right out of the covering unless you use really tight throttle management and keep it off full throttle except in straight up vertical climbs.

I'm turning a 23 X 10 prop and couldn't ask for anything better. Kyle Woyshnis (The Alien) flew my plane ot the Texas DOD flyin and his words when asked what if anything does the plane need were "Nothing at all". To me that means it is setup perfect and has just the right power to weight ratio.

It does not lack for power to pull out of a hover or do any maneuver imaginable.

But, on the other hand, we do believe that in most cases "Too Much Power Is Almost Enough".

Now realize that this is just my own experience and personal opinion.

Jim Ross
aka CoolPig


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(in reply to paulflys4fun)
       Post #: 379

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/2/2007 9:05:48 PM   
Greg Cothern



Posts: 596
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Seagoville, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I have flown a couple of the Wild Hare products (28% birds) with a ZDZ 60 and must say while they had good power the weight was just more than I could stand. I sold my ZDZ 60 and picked up another MVVS 45 and could not ask for a better combination, great power for this size bird, fantastic throttle response, and good broad power curve!!!!!
I think the ZDZ 60 and 80 are the wrong choices for this size bird, but understand the thought of not having to buy a larger engine to go to a larger bird...
If ya want a 33-35% bird then simply start with it and save in the long run, or prepare to buy a larger engine...
Just my opinion.

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(in reply to JimRoss)
       Post #: 380

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/2/2007 10:37:48 PM   
Greg Cothern



Posts: 596
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Seagoville, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Well believe I got my left turning Harriers figured out and taken care of. It was what I thought, my elevator halves were not tracking evenly or at the same speed. Thought I had programmed the servos but must not have hit the input button or something, seems one was a bit off, also forgot to 0 the sub-trim. I got it taken care of and as soon as Mother Nature cooperates I will test it, but I am sure I have it right now.

_____________________________

Some of the products I like
Smart-Fly Hangar 9 Wild Hare MVVS & DA Engine''s Futaba Radio Hitec Digital Servo''s

(in reply to Greg Cothern)
       Post #: 381

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/3/2007 5:33:24 AM   
rctom



Posts: 5329
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Flower Mound (near Dallas), TX, USA
Status: offline 		I have a friend with one of our composite 87" Sukhois wih a ZDZ-80. It's outrageous power. The problem is that's about all it is, power. It's very difficult to control that much power, so he spends a lot of time doing crazy stuff like 80mph straight up rolloing so fast it's a blur.

It's just too much power.

TF

(in reply to Greg Cothern)
       Post #: 382

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/3/2007 7:47:52 AM   
paulflys4fun


 

Posts: 84
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Flintshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi, thanks for the advice. I thought i could control the power with the throttle, but with an under sizes prop i thought i may get problems. The ZDZ 60, and 80 is only 1860g so light compared with most engines of there size. My Zenoah 45 is 2200g. I think i will buy the ZDZ 60 then, just had one eye on the next model so did not really want to buy a 60 now and a year later buy an 80.

Thanks again

Paul

(in reply to rctom)
       Post #: 383

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/3/2007 7:52:44 AM   
bgold


 

Posts: 373
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Portland, OR, USA
Status: offline 		I can't imagine anyone needing or wanting more power than my DA-50 has on my Extra. Out-a-sight vertical without thinking about slowing down. NX 23 X 8 at 6800 -6900 rpm's.

(in reply to rctom)
       Post #: 384

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/3/2007 8:09:22 AM   
paulflys4fun


 

Posts: 84
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Flintshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		The da50 is a great engine, but i cannot justify the price the ZDZ80 comes out about the same price. The ZDZ 60 is over £100 cheaper. Thats why i am not getting a DA. Model plane engines are over priced as it is. Take the Zenoah 45, that is one of the cheapest petrol engines. I can buy the Zonenah 45 in a chainsaw for less than i can buy the engine. I bought a genarator with a 48cc engine, looks very very similar to my Zenoah 12 months ago new for £45. The motor has run perfectly since then. The point i am trying to make is as soon as we wont to put them in a model plane the price go's through the roof.

Regards

Paul

(in reply to bgold)
       Post #: 385

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/3/2007 2:04:07 PM   
bigal422


 

Posts: 248
Joined: 7/23/2004
From: lenoir, NC, USA
Status: offline 		The price we pay to play.

(in reply to paulflys4fun)
       Post #: 386

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/3/2007 3:14:40 PM   
cyoung450


 

Posts: 209
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Plano, TX, USA
Status: offline 		You always get what you pay for.....

(in reply to bigal422)
       Post #: 387

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/3/2007 3:31:17 PM   
Greg Cothern



Posts: 596
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Seagoville, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I would not buy the ZDZ 60, after owning one they are a good engine but underpowered for anything larger than a 50cc size plane and heavy for a 50cc plane.
It really is an engine that is without an airframe LoL.

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(in reply to cyoung450)
       Post #: 388

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/3/2007 4:03:12 PM   
Zeeb



Posts: 1988
Joined: 11/11/2004
From: Pleasant Grove, UT, USA
Status: offline 		I think Greg is right on this one...

I have no problem with your thinking about the differences in the 60 and the 80, not much reason to get a 60 anymore. But other comments about getting larger plane and the 80 in the first place are valid with the note that initially you may not feel comfortable flying a model that costs that much more, or in fact not be able to fund a bigger model right now.

I think however you are overlooking what appears to me the best solution for your situation; how about putting one of the ZDZ-50NG's on it?

It's a pound lighter than the 60 and very nearly as much power. I've got one in another brand Extra, a guy at our club has a Cap about the same size with a 60 in it. We're at 4500' ASL here and lose some power output, but I've yet to see the 60 powered Cap do anything my Extra won't.

SO.....

My ZDZ-50NG is going into the new 28% bunny that just arrived not too long ago. It's my first bunny and from looking at things so far I don't think it will be my last, and I've not even flown one yet...

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Zeeb

(in reply to Greg Cothern)
       Post #: 389

RE: Newly redesigned WH Extra build thread - 2/3/2007 5:45:48 PM   
flatlandmike



Posts: 1175
Joined: 10/6/2003
From: lexington, KY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulflys4fun

The da50 is a great engine, but i cannot justify the price the ZDZ80 comes out about the same price. The ZDZ 60 is over £100 cheaper. Thats why i am not getting a DA. Model plane engines are over priced as it is. Take the Zenoah 45, that is one of the cheapest petrol engines. I can buy the Zonenah 45 in a chainsaw for less than i can buy the engine. I bought a genarator with a 48cc engine, looks very very similar to my Zenoah 12 months ago new for £45. The motor has run perfectly since then. The point i am trying to make is as soon as we wont to put them in a model plane the price go's through the roof.

Regards

Paul


Well heres the good news for your situation the da50 doesnt lose its value so buy the da50 and later on when your ready to get a new plane and need that zdz 80 sell the da50 and buy the zdz80. This was going t be my plan but The extra flys so well i can part with it so im keeping it and i just bout a zdz 80 with muffler spinner and prop for 6 bills and will have my WH 50cc extra and my new 33% to .



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