Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (Full Version)

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tripp3d -> Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/9/2006 8:11 AM)

Here are a few pics of my KMP 30% Edge on maiden flight today...

Stihl 65cc four stroke 50:1 mix
22x10 prop
(5) 200 oz digital hi torque (Tower Pro) servos
(2) Futaba 3004 throttle and choke
7 channel Futaba RX
2500 mah nimh battery

This engine sounds AWESOME!!! Especially at lower RPMs, and has tons of torque. I'm still breaking her in so I was afraid to do any hover type maneuvers, but this thing rolls very axially and flies pattern very well. May try bigger prop, any suggestions other than 24x10?



davewallace -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/9/2006 6:01 PM)

Tripp,
Could we get some pictures without the cowl? What is the rpm with the 22x10? Too many questions. Any further details would be great.

Thanks, Dave



KenLambert -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 12:56 AM)

here are some pics



subarubrat -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 2:39 AM)

Any chance of capturing the sound? That is a fantastic result, finally a 4 stroke conversion flying an aerobat. Allot of these competition guys are going nuts over noise, what will win out, the result of the conversion engine or the prestige of having the proper popular engine?



davewallace -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 4:19 AM)

Ken,
Great solution for a lefthanded engine. Nice pictures.

Dave



KenLambert -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 6:13 AM)

that is the engine that is on tripps plane.



tripp3d -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 7:16 AM)

Hey Ken,
I love this engine, thanks again! I have since cut some of the unecessary aluminum off the engine so this thing looks like nothing but cylinder and carb when the muffler is off[:D] I wish I could capture the sound of her but I dont have a camcorder.
I stihl haven't tached the engine with the 22x10 and honestly it doesn't appear to be turning all that fast, but it turns it with such authority I think I could even go a little larger, maybe...
(note the .095 weedeater line used for choke and throttle[;)]= no glitches)
12 volts wouldn't think about cranking her so I had to get a 24 volt Sullivan. Now it starts so fast its almost scary. I am curious about battery ignition but don't know if I have many options being 4 stroke, plus the mag seems to work pretty well.
Oh btw, I am using lots of expo on throttle b/c of low end power, almost ran me off the runway. I think I just need to adjust linkage at servo to adjust travel, and reduce ATV on Tx.
Engine is off again now as I'm cutting firewall back two inches to fit cowl properly
Here are some pics, one with engine still mounted. was considering Zenoah G62 but since this one is a keeper, the firewall is getting cut and the Stihl is going back on...[>:]



captinjohn -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 8:02 AM)

What is the big hose going to bottom of carb for? How about vibration at different speeds? I bet the sound is great. The 4 strokes have a longer push on the piston...making more torque. The windows in the cylinder on a 2 stroke....cause a loss of that push. Capt,n



NM2K -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 8:41 AM)

For all the world, that looks like a PCV setup (positive crankcase ventilation) to me. I can see a lot of places to reduce weight on that engine.

How much did the engine cost? TIA



tripp3d -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 8:50 AM)

the hose is an impulse line that uses crankcase pressure to work the fuel pump on the carb.[;)]
Vibration is not bad, but a slightly high idle helps, epoxy and tri stock are your friends.
accelerates VERY hard but no blistering top end like the 2 strokes...

Cap'n, I've always liked your quote, and you'll find it holds true with this one.[;)]




tomservo -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 11:51 AM)

From the looks of the ignition setup, there's no timing system other than fire-every-revolution, so there's no reason you couldn't use electronic ignition. I'm sure there would be a nice gain if you used a spark advance as well.

I imagine that hose comes from a difference source than a 2-cycle's fuel pump pulse, since a 4 stroke needs fuel every other rotation - even if there's no air intake the pump will still spurt out fuel as the throttle is still open



Antique -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/10/2006 6:48 PM)

The hose comes from the crankcase just like a two stroke...There is just enough of a pulse to operate the carb...There is a misconception about the pump function in the carb, it just fills the cavity under the diaphragm, it can't pump fuel out of the carb..
There is also a misconception about spark advance, the only engines I know of that benefits from more advance are the FPE engines that were set up at 18 degrees...
Timing at 28 or 30 is the best, there is no noticeable change a few degrees one way or the other from there....Too much advance makes the engine miss, too little makes less power..



tripp3d -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (7/11/2006 1:01 AM)

Ralph,
weren't you running a walbro sdc80 on this engine with good results. I ended up using the stock carb and had to mix my choke and throttle servos together to close the choke just a hair at half throttle for max power. adjusted carb but did not help, turned high speed screw out until it fell out in my hand with engine running, and STILL was asking for more gas...



drdrain -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/19/2007 8:11 AM)

YES! electronic ignition is VERY possible. just talk to the nice folks at C & H ignitions & they'll build you one. actually, they've already done some conversions on that engine including electronic ignition.

to the guy who was wondering about the "firing every stroke" factor... yes, the spark plug fires every stroke, but the valve train only introduces air/fuel mix every other stroke.

the 'large hose' from the crankcase... it uses the crankcase pressure to 'supercharge' the engine so to speak. exact same principle as the YS 4 stroke engines. in fact, wouldn't surprise me at all if StihL didn't copy the YS design. they were the first to do this. 4 stroke heaven? would be if Saito & StihL would 'hook up' and design a super light weight, high compression, methanol powered version of this engine. then comes 80 & 90cc versions. weeeeeeee



spiffymafied -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/19/2007 6:33 PM)

That is a nice looking engine. What would that have come out of? I'd like to find one.



MSS999 -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/19/2007 8:00 PM)

Stihl BR550 or BR600 backpack blower.



DKjens -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/19/2007 9:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: drdrain

YES! electronic ignition is VERY possible. just talk to the nice folks at C & H ignitions & they'll build you one. actually, they've already done some conversions on that engine including electronic ignition.

to the guy who was wondering about the "firing every stroke" factor... yes, the spark plug fires every stroke, but the valve train only introduces air/fuel mix every other stroke.

the 'large hose' from the crankcase... it uses the crankcase pressure to 'supercharge' the engine so to speak. exact same principle as the YS 4 stroke engines. in fact, wouldn't surprise me at all if StihL didn't copy the YS design. they were the first to do this. 4 stroke heaven? would be if Saito & StihL would 'hook up' and design a super light weight, high compression, methanol powered version of this engine. then comes 80 & 90cc versions. weeeeeeee


It doesn't look like this engine uses a supercharging principle. It looks like the carb is attached directly to the head. It is a brilliant idea though, to attach the carb via a reed valve to the crankcase, and then run an intake runner from the crankcase via another reed valve to the intake port. This would take care of lubricating the bottom end of the engine as well as pressurizing the intake mixture.



camcclellan -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/22/2007 8:59 AM)

Tripp3d

Do you go to the giant scale fly in at Hot Springs AR Oct, 12, 13 and 14. If so let me know so can be looking for you. I would like to see this set up.[:)]



erik58 -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/23/2007 4:11 AM)

has anybody tryed the 25cc? 4-mix ? thanks Erik[:D]



erik58 -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/23/2007 4:14 AM)

has anybody tryed the 25cc? 4-mix ? thanks Erik[:D]



drdrain -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/23/2007 8:52 AM)

check out the animation on StihL's website. it shows it clearer than I can explain it in words. but in the long run? they force feed the fuel air mix using the pulses from the crank case.




DKjens -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/23/2007 7:35 PM)

drdrain,
I've been on stihlusa.com and have not found any animation or other that explains that their 4-strokes work that way. I know exactly the principle you are talking about, and I believe a European engine manufacturer made a 4-stroke using this principle. The particular engine in this thread does not look like it operates that way, I mean, the carb. is attached on the head, not the crankcase, and there is no visible manifold running from the crankcase to the head.

Ig you have a link you can post, I'd be more than happy to look into it.

DKjens



MSS999 -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/23/2007 8:50 PM)

Try this

http://www.stihl.ca/4mix/francais/videos/video4mix.htm



MSS999 -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (9/23/2007 8:56 PM)

And for for the equivalent Shindaiwa C4 can be downloaded from here.

http://www.t2500.com/downloads/index.html



drdrain -> RE: Stihl 65cc 4-mix on 30% Edge (10/7/2007 9:47 AM)

there used to be a place on stihL's site where you could view an animation of the innerworkings of this engine while running. I got a good look at it about a week ago while at a friends' house. I was WRONG about the hose. it only operates the pump, just as tripp3d says. however, in the diagram, it shows the crankcase pressure being 'pumped' past the valve train, building pressure, then releasing into the intake valve. has anyone else seen this animation? past a link on here perhaps?



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