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Can of Worms - 12/30/2002 8:39:38 PM   
akpilot



Posts: 196
Joined: 10/26/2002
From: St. Peters, MO, USA
Status: offline 		I've kept my mouth quite for several months now listening, and hearing, both pros and cons on the AMA. I'm sorry if this offends some people, but my opinion is that the AMA is way off course with an annual fee cost of $58. But being an r/c enthusiast, that doesn't have their own corn field, I really won't have a reasonable choice but to pay it.

For most of us, this is a just a "hobby" . . . $58 basically covers, a secondary insurance policy and a magazine.

Even a basic AOPA (Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association) membership only costs $36 a year. Even at my AOPA rate of $72 a year I get my membership, legal representation by an aviation lawyer, proactive representation on Capitol Hill, TWO well produced and authored magazines (AOPA & Flight Training), more educational and safety materials than I care to read, a telephone hotline for clarity on the FAR/AIM (Federal Aviation Regualtions/Airman's Information Manual), as an aviation instructor a FREE six month subscription to any student I have, personalized address labels, etc.

Again I know I don't have a realistic choice but to join the AMA, but basic business sense tells me that AMA could use some healthy competition.
       Post #: 1

Can of Worms - 12/30/2002 10:11:55 PM   
RCadmin



Posts: 13236
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Belle Mead, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		This is true in many ways...they either need competition or a good deal of those who run it need to be ousted (from all levels within the AMA) and new fresh blood brought in.

Some of the stuff going on there is complete and total mismanagement and poor decision making. Maybe RCU members will sway the elections someday soon and head the AMA in a better direction.

_____________________________

Marc
RCU Site Admin
RCU Videos. Free Video Sharing. - www.rcuvideos.com
Visit RCU''s New Banner Free E-flight Only Website: www.WattFlyer.com

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 2

Can of Worms - 12/30/2002 10:44:54 PM   
tailskid



Posts: 5539
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Tolleson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Yep, you opened a can of worms :-)

Jerry

_____________________________

# 93 in Club Saito

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 3

Can of Worms - 12/31/2002 11:35:46 AM   
Jim Branaum


 

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I was watching the news a little while ago and noticed a commercial for a golf course. They were urging the populace to reserve a T time for only $59 for O*N*E round of golf to be played on O*N*E day. This was a special offer as normally they charge $89!

I think that just about puts the cost issue to bed as it is really not as major a player as many would wish to make it. No, I really think [COLOR=red](DANGER: OPINION HERE!)[/COLOR] that those who hide behind the checkbook as reason NOT to join the AMA are just not willing to share in the efforts many make to keep this hobby fun for all.

As for ousting the rascals, I don't think that is exactly called for in all cases as there are a great many hard working modelers in positions of authority all across the country. That being said, I do believe I and at least one other have stated our opinions and identified DVP's we feel need to be removed. Not being perfect, a simple review of actions (public, private [implied], and semi-private [you heard about it]) is all that you need to do to figure out who the players are and what "they" want. In other words, you don't have to take MY word for it if you get your own answers.

While I don't agree that we need to change the players, I do feel very strongly we need to change the rules to the game. Marc referred to some bad decisions that have been made and he is right. The amateurs we have elected to do the brain surgery on the AMA do not all have the credentials we would expect of the average physician and they do make uneducated mistakes. In fact, we seem to have a bunch of amateurs telling the educated professionals HOW to do their job rather than defining WHAT that job should be.

Then again we need folks willing to do things like control the purse strings better than was done with the computer systems and photo copiers we bought into. Maybe take General Electric model of getting approval for expenditures above certain amounts. Somebody needs to review major expenditures "we" are making but to do that we NEED to define that level.

Another area we need to attend to is the nomination and election process as it is very clear that what is done today encourages probable deceit and nomination control.

The most important thing 'we' NEED to address is the communications channel. Get rid of the censorship used to control what the membership finds out from PUBCOM. Make all the various committees and their membership public, in MA at least once a year.

By the way, another example of the bad communications is the agreement on RCU about the 2001 audit. Today is the last day of 2002 and we are fighting about HISTORY rather than planning for the future because the information was just made public. Try driving your car with your eyes on the rear view mirror!

[COLOR=red]W*E*[/COLOR] have work to do guys!

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 4

Can of Worms - 12/31/2002 12:14:21 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

Posts: 7676
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: nyc, NY, USA
Status: offline 		AOPA is MUCH bigger, and AOPA is supported by a MUCH bigger industry, full scale aviation. Apples and oranges, totally.

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 5

Can of Worms - 12/31/2002 7:03:35 PM   
raistlin12



Posts: 125
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Euless, TX, USA
Status: offline 		While AOPA and AMA are two different entities, the parallel is even more divergent than that... I am not FORCED to belong to AOPA if I wish to fly my Cessna, Piper, Maul, Beechcraft, etc. at a controlled field. In fact, AOPA membership isn't required for membership in flying clubs who are based at controlled fields. Fow what you pay, you get substantially more from AOPA than AMA, and that was the point being made.

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 6

AMA aka Insurance Company - 12/31/2002 9:05:46 PM   
rcflier_gi



Posts: 465
Joined: 5/10/2002
From: Grand Island, NY, USA
Status: offline 		To me my check to AMA is the same as my check to State Farm for my car insurance. I hate writting both but I have to. IMO AMA membership is nothing more than an insurance policy I'm forced to carry to fly.

I don't care about a new headquarters that a tiny % of the membership will ever see. I don't care about national competitions. There should be a cheaper no-frills insurance policy, oops membership for average flyers. I'll skip the magazine and don't give access to the headquarters complex.

I could be way off but I think most people are like me when it comes to flying. I just want to go flying sunday mornings (or any morning) and hang out with other fliers for a couple hours or so and fly. I have no dreams of a national championship and I'm not saving my vacation to visit the AMA headquarters.

< Message edited by rcflier_gi -- Dec 31 2002 4:12PM >


_____________________________

Current airworthy planes :
SIG Mayhem 3D w/OS 1.20FS pump

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 7

Can of Worms - 1/1/2003 12:04:56 AM   
FLYBOY



Posts: 8696
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Missoula, MT, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, the main problem with AMA is no competition! There will never be a good competitor because AMA will just put them out of business with new rules saying if you talk to them you will not be covered. Ok, that is a bit much but you get my drift. You will sure get a lot of guys writing back and telling you to just shut up and pay so they can enjoy their field back east that noone can get to but the select few. Seems that everyone pays the AMA dues, and most pay it because they have to, but Most will not voice their opinion when it counts, so we all have to pay. Thats the problem when a large group gets too large. It turns into a money making machine and looses its focus. EAA did the same thing.

_____________________________

Fly it till the wings come off.

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 8

Can of Worms - 1/1/2003 2:02:58 AM   
redrocker


 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/4/2002
From: Cottonwood, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		To me, insurance coverage is the most important product the AMA can provide me, especially given the awesome size of liability judgments that judges and juries are handing out.

I also think it important that the AMA continue to have a voice in Washington on radio frequency issues. It makes sense that this type of lobby work be funded and done on a national basis.

But for other products from the AMA- wish I had a choice. Being a sport flyer, I have no use for a national flying site, or a District 10 flying site, for that matter.

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 9

Can of Worms - 1/1/2003 3:17:25 AM   
Esure



Posts: 27
Joined: 3/19/2002
From: Daytona Beach, FL,
Status: offline 		Ive been trying to stay out of this mess for a while, but since the can is opened...

Personally, I pay AMA because I have to. 58 bucks doesn't dent my pocket book much, and thats not why I will complain. I think thats the same for most fliers, as we know that this is an expensive hobby, and aren't afraid to have a little extra insurance. However, the folks in Muncie wasting this money on needless expenditures is more than enough to tick me off. If AMA were run like a true business in FULL support of its members, those in charge would be doing their best to be as efficient and cost effective as possible, while supporting all of us. That clearly isn't happening.

Also, the fact that AMA has invested in volatile areas of the market, and not secured the funds in a safer location is not helping their case. Then, this elaborate 'palace' is built in the middle of no where. I don't disagree with the fact that there needs to be a place where they can organize, meet, and promote our hobby, but to best promote it, shouldn't it at least be near to a large population base? Heck, if they represent us to the government, why isn't it near DC? Also, how many members truly will venture to the National Flying Site? Not many, i know that much.

I truly need the current financial figures to say what i want, but without proof, I'm not going to fudge it in to prove my point. What i would like to say however is that i am very disappointed in how the organization is run. Competition would be a great thing for the AMA, because then they can truly see how bad things really are. BTW, if anyone can point me to some of the hard dollar figures, it would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Ed Schurr

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 10

Can of Worms - 1/1/2003 4:02:51 AM   
fliers1



Posts: 539
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by FLYBOY
Yes, the main problem with AMA is no competition! There will never be a good competitor because AMA will just put them out of business with new rules saying if you talk to them you will not be covered. Ok, that is a bit much but you get my drift. You will sure get a lot of guys writing back and telling you to just shut up and pay so they can enjoy their field back east that noone can get to but the select few. Seems that everyone pays the AMA dues, and most pay it because they have to, but Most will not voice their opinion when it counts, so we all have to pay. Thats the problem when a large group gets too large. It turns into a money making machine and looses its focus. EAA did the same thing. [/QUOTE]

I don't know if you would call it competition, but there is another modeling organization: http://www.unitedmodelers.com

You don't even have to join UMA if you already have AMA to fly in a UMA club. But as you would know it, it doesn't work the other way around.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 11

Can of Worms - 1/1/2003 5:03:42 AM   
KYCH



Posts: 14
Joined: 1/9/2002
From: Willard, OH, USA
Status: offline 		WE ALL HAVE THE SAME THING TO SAY ABOUT THE $58.00 IT'S TOO MUCH TO PAY THEM TO WASTE ON SOME OTHER DUMB PROJECT. THEY OFFER JUNIOR MEMBERS THE CHOISE TO HAVE OR NOT TO HAVE THERE MAG. BUT WE HAVE NO CHOISE IN THE MATTER TO REDUCE OUR MEMBERSHIP COSTS. I JUST WONDER WHAT THERE NEXT STUPID PROJECT WILL COST US? IF THEY WANT TO SAVE SOME MONEY THEY SHOULD CUT OUT SOME FAT IN THE BIG GLASS HOUSE!!! THAT WE DON'T USE OR NEED.....

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 12

Can of Worms - 1/1/2003 8:03:38 AM   
HitecRedneck



Posts: 215
Joined: 12/22/2001
From: Kingsland, AR, USA
Status: offline 		AKPilot where is your insurance?

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 13

Can of Worms - 1/1/2003 8:12:18 AM   
Live Wire


 

Posts: 3902
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Sterling , CO, USA
Status: offline 		We will pay the dues as long as we get what we are paying for. I would like to have a raise . Just don't kick me to hard.

_____________________________

Larry K AMA 36417
WACO Brotherhood #34

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 14

Can of Worms - 1/1/2003 2:14:15 PM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Esure


BTW, if anyone can point me to some of the hard dollar figures, it would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Ed Schurr [/QUOTE]

Ed,

Go to the AMA website at http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/ . Go to the Member's Only section and the 2001 Financial Audit is posted there.

JR

(in reply to akpilot)
       Post #: 15

Can of Worms - 1/1/2003 10:33:22 PM   
Cyclic Hardover



Posts: 7252
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: New Mexico, USA
Status: offline 		Frankly, and you can quote me on this "ET", Alhtough i am an AMA member, I truely believe from the depths of my soul, AMA is the worlds largest insurance scam since Enron!

_____________________________

Retired Army Aviator - Excuse Me! You sold me a hair with a cake around it!

(in reply to akpilot)