Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54

Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54
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Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/10/2006 11:19:47 AM

Spacey

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline

Good day everyone!

Been a while since I started a new thread on a plane so I'm a little out of practise but ok here goes. I figured I'll put this in the 3D forum as I need help choosing a motor for this model to get a good power to weight yet light wingloading combination. Those who knows me will know I have a fairly decent fleet of 3D profiles flying and well I've been in the market for something fat again for quite a while as I wanted something to have fun with and also draw a straighter line across the sky with to practise my precision skills a little. The profiles I have just don't cut it and are just frustrating to say the least when it comes more patternish aerobatics. So yea I still aim to one day save up and get something big like a H9 260 with a DA50 but at the moment other priorities made that idea impossible. Friday afternoon I stumble into the LHS (Yes it's my home away from home) and BAM this sucker just can't stop begging me to take it home. It was a kind of "Love at first sight" thing. Got it for a really good deal and it also retails here for $216, who can resist at that price?

Now ok in all fairness I'll never get my hopes for it to 3D well if at all as previous experience already taught me that smaller fatties just don't do it but ok I'm still going to build it with the mindset that it might.

So here's the deal thus far. It's a 63" wingspan model so a nice and comfy size. Covered fully in Oracover (Didn't triple check but sure looks like the stuff). All laser cut construction with extreme lightning techniques used all over the place like holes in the leading edge sheeting blah blah so the idea is right barring it stays in one piece upstairs. What some would call airfoiled tail feathers (Dunno it's a funny one to describe but yes it is sorta airfoiled..lol). Carbon fibre pushrod kits already included in the kit for all the surfaces except rudder which is pull-pull. Overall I can't say ANYTHING bad about the quality of the plane thus far and bare in mind I hate ARFS for the quality issues they had in the past with covering etc. But from what I've seen till now on this thing I have to ask how in the world they build these things for this price?!?!

Ok so last night I unpacked everything and started weighing all the components to try and figure out a AUW so I can choose the right motor. I added everything I could possible think of including 6X40gram servos, switch, leads, reciever, epoxy (I hope I added too much), a very heavy battery (Yes with the idea to save weight later on that), prop, stickers everything and got to 2950grams WITHOUT motor. That's about 6.46lbs for everything except motor/exhaust and fuel. Now which motor to choose?

Terribly sorry for the long post. Hopefully it was interesting enough to read. I decided to blurt it all out since I couldn't find anything through the search on rcu on the plane.

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RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/10/2006 12:11:00 PM

tIANci

Posts: 8759
Joined: 1/15/2004
From: Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA
Status: offline

Spacey - looks like you will be touching 8.5-9 lbs by the time everything is in. Do you want to really 3D or just enjoy her? If 3D then you will want something like the Saito 100 as a mere minimum. You can look into the SA125 also or the new OS120 2C. For me I would plug in my YS110!

_____________________________

Its nice to be important, but its more important to be nice ...
Revver Brotherhood No. 232

(in reply to Spacey)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/10/2006 12:41:47 PM

Spacey

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline

Hi tIANci,

Yes well at the moment I will be putting it together to actually see if it can 3D or not to some extent so power is a must but I'm not too worried about ballistic. I'm not that good a 3D pilot so I don't trash around. I can manage with a little less as I usually collect myself between manuvers anyways.

I've got my list narrowed down a wee bit already since the top post. I can either use my Super Tigre .90 I already have but I'm worried it'll be barely enough to hold a hover at my 4300feet above. The ST .90 3D's the poop out of my 6.1lbs TMPro Katana V2 and hovers that at less than half throttle on a 15X4W but how much power is still left on top of that to 3D a 8lbs plane I worry about. The OS 1.20 AX will fly the snot out of this Yak for sure and price seems okish...but alas it's heavy. Saito 1.25 is the lightest of the bunch I got in mind but the price scares me and will it have enough power?!? I also have access to a OS .91 which I can get for a really good deal if not for free. I have to add I have a really nice throttle/muscle pipe for the .90 2-strokes which does add about 500rpm to normal specs.

The weights I found of all the motors:
Super Tigre .90 w/muffler: 27oz (765grams)
OS .91 w/muffler: 24.3oz (688grams)
OS 1.20 AX w/muffler: 31.4oz (892grams)
Saito 1.25: 24.7oz (700grams)

Sorry although I really want to try a YS I'd just much rather go for the Saito 1.25 as YS isn't available here by us and the 30% nitro thing doesn't freak me out. Dunno Saito just looks like a much better investment in terms of ease of use.

Edit: Sorry just noticed a booboo on the weight conversions. Fixed.

< Message edited by Spacey -- 7/31/2006 7:48:53 AM >

(in reply to tIANci)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/10/2006 2:25:28 PM

Texan

Posts: 515
Joined: 12/20/2001
From: Georgetown, TX, USA
Status: offline

Spacey,

What rpm are you getting with the ST 90 on the pipe? I have a ST 90 that I'm setting up for 3D with the following:

Powermaster 10%
APC 14x4W
OS 7D carb
Ultrathrust muffler

Max rpm 12,700 (head temp 280)*
Min rpm 1,500

* I can run FAI 0% nitro and get 12,500 with head temp @ 250 but the transition is not as good. I will try 5% soon.

(in reply to Spacey)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/10/2006 10:13:28 PM

tIANci

Posts: 8759
Joined: 1/15/2004
From: Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA
Status: offline

Spacey - I would not go with the ST90 for an 8 lbs plane. I used it on my Harrier 3D 90, its hovering at like 80% throttle. I am sure the SA125 would be a great choice. I love YS engines but like you said ... they like high nitro content.

_____________________________

Its nice to be important, but its more important to be nice ...
Revver Brotherhood No. 232

(in reply to Texan)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/11/2006 8:41:06 AM

Spacey

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Texan

Spacey,

What rpm are you getting with the ST 90 on the pipe? I have a ST 90 that I'm setting up for 3D with the following:

Powermaster 10%
APC 14x4W
OS 7D carb
Ultrathrust muffler

Max rpm 12,700 (head temp 280)*
Min rpm 1,500

* I can run FAI 0% nitro and get 12,500 with head temp @ 250 but the transition is not as good. I will try 5% soon.

Hia Texan,
Sorry I haven't had a chance to tack my motor with the pipe on as I don't own a tachometer myself but the "Add 500 odd rpm" statement was motivated as a very reliable source/friend of mine did check hes and put me onto this pipe I'm using now. I'm not going to make any promises on when but I am going to try for this weekend to borrow a tach and check it out for you.

(in reply to Texan)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/11/2006 8:53:55 AM

Spacey

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tIANci

Spacey - I would not go with the ST90 for an 8 lbs plane. I used it on my Harrier 3D 90, its hovering at like 80% throttle. I am sure the SA125 would be a great choice. I love YS engines but like you said ... they like high nitro content.

Agreed..It would just be too risky to bother with a .90 2-stroke on this one. I see the guys are using the Saito 1.25 on things like the Showtime which is also 8lbs+ with good success so I suppose it'll be a good match for this plane too. I have never owned a 4-stroke other than a Super Custom .80 4S in a Anniversay Cub around '96. Back in those days the four strokes were so underpowered compared to now that I really can't put my mind at ease yet if the 1.25 is even going to be enough. But yes the weight numbers put the Saito way up top as far as great choice goes now I just got to convince myself it'll have enough grunt. I spoke to the LHS owner for a LOOOONG time last night about my choices and he also talked me into a Saito. He is the only other person in my club that can 3D with the best of them and we kinda sung the same tune on the matter. So ya it looks like it'll be the 1.25. I'm going to sell another model to help fund the Saito as it's by far the most expensive motor I ever considered buying.

Got any suggestions for props and such for the Saito? Before we start figuring out what servos to use!

(in reply to tIANci)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/11/2006 2:39:16 PM

Texan

Posts: 515
Joined: 12/20/2001
From: Georgetown, TX, USA
Status: offline

The Saito 1.25 should be a great choice. I like the looks of the Phoenix Yak. Good luck with your project.

BTW, my ST90 is going in a AW Edge 540 60"... hopefully under 7lbs.

(in reply to Spacey)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/12/2006 3:57:12 AM

tIANci

Posts: 8759
Joined: 1/15/2004
From: Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA
Status: offline

Spacey - I believe that the Saito 125 will swing a 16x6 or 15x8. This link is good:

http://www.saito-engines.info/

_____________________________

Its nice to be important, but its more important to be nice ...
Revver Brotherhood No. 232

(in reply to Texan)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/12/2006 9:22:13 AM

Spacey

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline

Texan: Thanks for the encouragement! I got some emails from old friends also confirming that the Saito is the best choice of the bunch with this plane and future models in mind. Good luck to you with that AW. We don't get the AW models here in ZA so I've never seen one with my own eyes. Stick around on this thread if you like. I'll more than probably post some pictures of the build when I get going on it.

tIANci: Thanks a bunch mate! I checked out the site and yes those prop sizes makes sense. I hope my LHS has those sizes or can get them for me. I suppose I'll have to try both the 16X6 and 15X8 to really see what this Yak prefers. When talking those kinds of prop number I also assume it's just normal blade APC props right and not wide blade props? Sorry you don't need to answer that but just thought I'd ask cause maybe you know.

(in reply to tIANci)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/12/2006 4:26:13 PM

Texan

Posts: 515
Joined: 12/20/2001
From: Georgetown, TX, USA
Status: offline

Spacey,

I have a friend interested in the Phoenix Yak, however, can't locate a kit in the US. Is the Yak a new release from Phoenix Mfg.? Perhaps they have not arrived here yet.

(in reply to Spacey)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/13/2006 7:51:57 AM

Spacey

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline

Hi Texan,

Yes this one is made by the same company that makes the Fun Star's and all the .40 size fun-scale aerobats. Well ok they make quite a variety of things. I see Tower is a US agent for them and has some of their models in stock along with quite a list of spare parts like wings and canopies whatever you need.

Phoenix at Tower

Unfortunately it seems us poor South Africans are playing labs rats again on this model too. I've noticed we get alot of models quite some time before they hit the states. I don't know which other countries also get them before hand but maybe their using our market for a test bench?

So yea let me help your friend out rather and let me do the testing on this sucker since I've already got it. It shouldn't be forever before I rig it up as I'll probably pick the motor this afternoon (My poor credit card). I just have some other small projects and jobs to do before I can put this on the bench. I'll probably start late next week.

(in reply to Texan)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/29/2006 1:37:57 AM

vx570

Posts: 87
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: TallwoodsNSW, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

Hi Spacey.

How is the building of the YAK going?, have just purchased one, was traveling in QLD Australia and wandered into a hobby shop and there is was, couldn't believe my eyes a Phoenix Yak 54, never seen one before, anyway haven't had a close look yet but on first glance looks good, like you not to sure of the power yet, like the 4 stroke idea looks like the 125 is the go, will do away with the crook looking wheels and replace with Robart's, the canopy looks as if it needs finishing off, interested in how yours balances and flys, anyway cheers from OZ.

Greg

(in reply to Spacey)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 7/31/2006 7:59:15 AM

Spacey

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline

Hi Greg,

Lately I've been having some serious headaches commiting to projects as my eggbeaters are really taking priority and you know how often they break something. I am going to try my best to get something done soon but I have to finish off rebuilding my primary F3C machine. The heli is very nearly ready to go as I just need to get the reciever in and do the final setup so hopefully I can make time soon to tackle the Yak. You have no idea how badly I want to put this aeroplane together but time just doesn't allow.

I also won myself a Seagull Harrier .46 over the weekend so there's even more fun projects at home waiting to see some action. LOL. I really do hope to get going on the Yak this week as I now have everything lined up and ready. But I will definitely post some pictures and comments as I go along with this one.

(in reply to vx570)

RE: Help? Phoenix Models 63" Yak-54 - 8/1/2006 12:17:39 AM