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Joined: 5/3/2002 From: Fresno, CA, Status: offline
Just came back from flying the AXI 5320/28 powered Eclipse that my Dad (Vodoofixer) has this weekend. Actually the plane was mine, formerly YS 140 powered, but with the electric revolution having started I started to convert it to electric just over a year ago. At the time I had planned a Plett 30-10, but it took almost two months to get the motor, and by that time I had something else flying. So it sat on a shelf for about 8 months.
The Eclipse was constructed like your typical glow powered, glass fuse, pattern plane. A firewall with a balsa composite floor to mount the tuned pipe and separate the heat and oily mess from the electronics. As a glow powered plane the weight was at about 10.5 lbs, and no measures were made to make it any lighter. There were plywood structures for mounting various servos and other componants that would make me cringe now because of their weight, but it all had to go.
The firewall was litterally ripped out, as was the floor. You can see in the pictures that a small rim is left where those components were glued in. i could have ground that out, but would have risked putting a hole through the fuse. At the time, the Plett motor was going to have it's own 'firewall' of sorts for mounting, later on that wouldn't be necessary with the installation of the AXI.
Anyway, that's how it sat for a number of months... gutted, and looking pretty sad. I honestly thought it had made it's last flight as I knew I couldn't get it under 11 lbs with just about any combination of motor/battery combo.
Well we started using the Flight Power batteries around these parts and with the 10s config (2 5s packs in series) the weight of the batts comes out to be about 32 ounces, a savings of about 7 ounces over the TP 5300s which I had planned for originally. With discipline, using a timer for about 8 minutes and judicious use of the throttle, 3700 batteries offer plenty of capacity for up through Masters...
Also... my dad happened to have an AXI 5330/18 sitting around doing nothing... gears started to turn, and during one visit, Dad decided to take home the Eclipse to finish the conversion... claiming builders rights or something like that...
The AXI was mounted to the nose ring of the plane, battery trays were built, and servos were re-installed. A few minor repairs to the fiberglass later, the plane was ready to fly.
I test flew it and the CG was off (couldn't remember where we were supposed to set it...) but the plane flew well. Like I said with that motor power was sick, way too much. But we proved it could be done and again the plane sat for a while.
Then Dad's brain started to tick again... if he took out the 5320/28 from his QQ Yak, and put it in Eclipse, he could shave just about 6 ounces off the weight... a couple other small changes later, and he could be under 11 lbs.
The next day, he put that motor in it and test flew it another day later. He reported that the power was good and the weight came in under the limit at 10 lbs 14 ounces.
Power is the 5320/28, Jeti 77, and Flight Power 3700 5s x2 batteries, and an APC 19x12We. These numbers were taken at about 4500' msl.
AMPS 70 VOLTS 38 WATTS 2660 RPM 7,000
The numbers on performace are posted above, but the real test is in how it flies. Now, only one prop has been used so far, the 19x12We, so more testing might yeild better performance, but I'm not sure how better it could be. It does not have the stump pulling power that the 5330s have obviously, but does it have enough power? Absolutely...
I flew it a couple times after the conversion with a 5330/18 and the available power that combo had made flying almost impossible if your goal is to fly a smooth constant speed for competition.
With the 5320/28... after just a couple seconds of flying, it just felt 'right'. Can't explain it any better than that, it just felt like the perfect combo for this plane, for what we were planning for it... and that is a good electric pattern plane for up to Masters. I have yet to fumble through the FAI pattern with it, but I think at this weight, power would be marginal. A pound lighter might be a different story. We are talking about taking a 10.5 lbs AXI 5330/F3A powered plane and putting this motor in it to see how the performance is. Weight would come out to be just over 10 lbs, and FAI type power could be possible at that weight... not sure though, but that's why you test things right?
Carbon tubes were added from the cheek cowls to direct air to the motor. So far no temp issues have been noted.
So what does all this mean? Well as people decide to ditch the oily, noisy glow powerplants... they are left with a choice, convert what they have, or sell the old plane and start over.
The Eclipse used as the example in this case was not built for electric... lighter wood would have been used on the wings and tail, and could have made it lighter by a couple ounces... changing servos to lighter, smaller digitals will also reduce the weight. But none of that was done here. The fuse was gutted, and darned near everything that was deemed non-essential was ripped out.
Add a $205 motor, $175 Esc, and $420 worth of batteries (one set), and for a reasonable sum you have a Nats legal pattern ship capable of up to Masters level competition... For those that have to have the latest and greatest design (I am one of those too...), you can sell your glow plane and use the money to fund your next mount... that leaves a potental bargain for the taking.
Old glow pattern planes never die... they just get converted to electric...
Tom M.
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Any pilot can describe the mechanics of flying. What it can do for the spirit of man is beyond description.- Barry Goldwater
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I'm guessing that your speed was up a little from the plane with the 5330/FAI and downline braking a little less with the smaller prop. Just doing some outloud thinking here I'm also guessing that the 18x12 prop might even be a better choice. Now you have me rethinking my choice. LOL 5.5 oz weight savings is big difference. Tell your dad I'm glad he is an experimenter. Steve Maxwell
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Joined: 5/3/2002 From: Fresno, CA, Status: offline
Rethinking your choice? Sorry Steve... lol, didn't mean that to happen. The difference in power is definitely noticeable between the 5320/28 and the 5330/F3A...
I don't know that it flew faster, it probably could, but I tend to fly the same speed... You may be right on the prop, we're going to experiment with a few of them.
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Any pilot can describe the mechanics of flying. What it can do for the spirit of man is beyond description.- Barry Goldwater
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I seen Dave Lockharts Hacker A60-20s today and it has plenty of power for his setup is 18X11 glow prop Castle controller and he is using a brake which is really loud on the downlines his plane is 10 LBS even. The AXI 5320/28 has better #'s 14 more RPM per volt but it's also 2 1/2 oz lighter. Tom I think your dad has hit on a great setup here. I'll be there tomorrow and Chris moon is using the same setup except he has disabled the brake and just using an idle for downlines. I''l be back tomorrow and will report on anything else I see.
Posts: 442
Joined: 5/3/2002 From: Fresno, CA, Status: offline
Thanks for the report Steve, it's an interesting project with even more interesting results.
Dad got to thinking again today, and he's got a 10 lb 8 oz Focus 2 (with the Flight Power 3700s) with a /F3A that he flies... swap the motor and esc out, and you have a 10 lb airplane... performance should be really good at that weight, like you said Dave L's was... So, that's what Dad is doing as I type this... if that works out, I'll probably try my #2 Genesis with that set up too, as it would be about 10 lbs 1 ounce. We have a big contest in Gardnerville, NV in a couple weeks, I'll probably try it after then.
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Any pilot can describe the mechanics of flying. What it can do for the spirit of man is beyond description.- Barry Goldwater
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Seen Chris Moons fly today even though it cracked the nose once again and Holly (wife/ caller) kept saying didn't something break aren't you going to land, Chris finished flight even with some thrust issues, the downlines was very good even without brake. After today I think Pete Collinson maybe will try this setup or the 5330/FAI, we plan on talking the Richard and Danny Landis more this week, sense we changed the Hackers out twice today drawing to many amps and just back from service, I'm sure he has rotor problems as many of us do. More later tired now. Can't wait for more flight reports from your dad Tom. I take it the mounting is the same for both just the 5320/28 is shorter? Might also add that Chris had plenty of power flying advanced and sense the AXI has better #'s it should even be better. Got a chance to talk to Derek Kopiwitz(spelling) and he said that your guys setups work great and that you are very straight up guys, he also said after what he went though today he is sure he will be running them naxt year. Steve Maxwell
< Message edited by patternrules -- 7/20/2006 3:19:34 AM >
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Tested the FOCUS II with the Axi 5320-28 running a 20-11 apce and FLIGHT POWER 10s 3700. It was windy and the sun was in my eyes but my impression is great. It is slower, more of a constant speed with slower down lines. Takes more throtle than I was using with the F3a motor but that set up was pulling 3200 watts max and this set up runs about 2500 watts so I could adj. the throt curve later but I need more flights to get used to it. Ok power, first flight flew the intermediate pattern 2 times and a couple of full power vert. rolls till I couldn't tell what it was doing. After 9 min. used 2200 mha. Next flight one time through the pattern and one insane vert. roll and landing. 5 min and put back 1100 mha. We were thinking that in windy conditions maybe use the FLIGHT POWER 4350 paks but I'm not shure that would be needed. Anyway I would say looks good to me what ever thats worth. Tom will be up for the contest in 2 weeks and he can test it and give a better eval. Its just shade over 10lbs.
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Joined: 5/3/2002 From: Fresno, CA, Status: offline
Dad has put on a couple more flights now, three this morning I think, and is really enjoying this set up now. He says that it is easier to hold a more constant speed which seemed true when I last flew that motor too. At 10 lbs, a model with this motor could have very good power, Masters was definitely comfortable at close to 11 lbs. I have hundreds of flights with the /F3A, but only a handful with the 5320/28 so I hesitate to say that it's a 'perfect' solution here. However, initial tests out here from a couple sources have shown that it may very well be a viable powerplant for some models... specifically those whose flying weight is close to 10 lbs. Though it did fly fine a 11 lbs with no power issues... I just want to be clear and say that I don't believe this is the best motor for every application. Though, I'm looking forward to trying it on a couple more planes!
We also have a guy out here who has tried one on a Hangar 9 Showtime. His all up weight with the AXI and the Flight Power 3700s in a (10s) configuration is 9 lbs and 11 ounces. He reports very good power and smooth flying characteristics. I think he has about a dozen flights on it right now, but he feels that once he gets it trimmed he'll compete in Masters with it at a contest or two to show what it can do... Great, somebody else to beat me! lol
Below are pictures of the /F3A and 5320/28 on the Focus 2. The first pic is a little blurry, i apologize.
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Any pilot can describe the mechanics of flying. What it can do for the spirit of man is beyond description.- Barry Goldwater
Posts: 442
Joined: 5/3/2002 From: Fresno, CA, Status: offline
Derek Koopowitz is a good guy as well and has done a lot for pattern in general. I am sorry that he is having so much trouble out there this year. Sounds like there are a lot of people swapping motors and engines at the field. That kind of thing always goes on, but you gotta feel for guys who travel so far only to have things go nuts on them. Things only go wrong right before or at a contest... I guess the Nats just amplify that I guess.
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Any pilot can describe the mechanics of flying. What it can do for the spirit of man is beyond description.- Barry Goldwater
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Joined: 7/28/2002 From: Nineveh,
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Derek got everything going now. I also got to talk to Jerry Budd and he is running the 3700 flightpower acks in master with his Hacker setup and said as you have they are awesome. He also said that you are correct that the AXI fai is a great motor with excess power.. Keep the great work up guys. Steve Maxwell
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Joined: 7/28/2002 From: Nineveh,
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Tom or Al in the second photo with the 5320/28 what controller is that? Looks like a Jeti 77, have you added a heat shrink to it?
Steve Maxwell
quote:
ORIGINAL: VODOOFIXER
Tested the FOCUS II with the Axi 5320-28 running a 20-11 apce and FLIGHT POWER 10s 3700. It was windy and the sun was in my eyes but my impression is great. It is slower, more of a constant speed with slower down lines. Takes more throtle than I was using with the F3a motor but that set up was pulling 3200 watts max and this set up runs about 2500 watts so I could adj. the throt curve later but I need more flights to get used to it. Ok power, first flight flew the intermediate pattern 2 times and a couple of full power vert. rolls till I couldn't tell what it was doing. After 9 min. used 2200 mha. Next flight one time through the pattern and one insane vert. roll and landing. 5 min and put back 1100 mha. We were thinking that in windy conditions maybe use the FLIGHT POWER 4350 paks but I'm not shure that would be needed. Anyway I would say looks good to me what ever thats worth. Tom will be up for the contest in 2 weeks and he can test it and give a better eval. Its just shade over 10lbs.
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