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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> What is to be done
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What is to be done - 12/31/2002 8:43:10 PM   
FlyingZee


 

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/30/2002
From: Gainesville, FL,
Status: offline 		I was visiting some relatives over Christmas when we had occasion to visit the local park. There is one large field with kids playing and a group of people playing soccer. Additionally, this park runs along a MAJOR highway (actually at the corner of 2 major streets). While I was there, some guy showed up with a decently constructed model (a Kiwi, I think he called it) sporting an OS .46 FX.

Now for the good part. He takes off over one of the major roads! Then, he continually does high-speed low passes over an occupied field! In talking to him, he said he was AMA but the local club was too crowded. In my judgement, he was a decent pilot, but what if something goes wrong? What if the old kit was not designed for the modifications and the wings give in one of his high-speed dives? Is there something I should have done? I am not one to cause trouble, but I think this guy was exhibiting EXTREME poor judgement.

Looking for input,

Zee
       Post #: 1

nooooooooooooooo - 12/31/2002 8:56:49 PM   
dennis1943



Posts: 518
Joined: 12/25/2001
From: cross, SC, USA
Status: offline 		sorry that you have witnesed one of the many examples of stupidity i guess if you wanted to make a issue of it you could send name and number to ama but i doubt that would help,
happy new year and fly safe

dennis1943
ama7030

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dennis1943

(in reply to FlyingZee)
       Post #: 2

What is to be done - 12/31/2002 9:55:37 PM   
tailskid



Posts: 5509
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Tolleson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		No rules for stupidity.....they are just too stupid to think "What if...."

Jerry

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# 93 in Club Saito

(in reply to FlyingZee)
       Post #: 3

What is to be done - 1/2/2003 5:48:22 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline 		Unless there was a local law prohibiting his flying, or he was within three miles of the local club, I don't think he did anything "wrong". So, I wouldn't lose any sleep over "what can be done."

Obviously the best judgement wasn't used. Next time maybe mention to him some of the "what ifs", he could be one of those people with no common sense.

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In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

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       Post #: 4

stupid - 1/2/2003 8:52:47 PM   
s3nfo


 

Posts: 474
Joined: 1/9/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		You also might mention to him that his AMA insurance is only good when flying at an authorized flying site and that if a local lawyer could make an argument for negligence (flying a high powered airplane in a crowded space around people who are unaware of the danger does seem negligent to me) that his home owners may be off the hook too which means that any damages would be paid by him personally out of his pocket.

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Jerry N
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf

(in reply to FlyingZee)
       Post #: 5

Re: stupid - 1/2/2003 9:01:55 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by s3nfo
You also might mention to him that his AMA insurance is only good when flying at an authorized flying site and that if a local lawyer could make an argument for negligence (flying a high powered airplane in a crowded space around people who are unaware of the danger does seem negligent to me) that his home owners may be off the hook too which means that any damages would be paid by him personally out of his pocket. [/QUOTE]

Is this true? It seems that if an AMA member is flying on his own property (not an AMA club) he is still covered, I think....True or not? If true, why would a park be any different with respect to
AMA insurance?

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In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

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       Post #: 6

What is to be done - 1/2/2003 10:27:58 PM   
TopShelf



Posts: 648
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: West Linn, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Seems like this guy is in obvious violation of the safety code and therefore not covered, correct?

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He Who is a Slave to the Compass has the Freedom of the Sky.
www.TopShelfRC.com

(in reply to FlyingZee)
       Post #: 7

Re: Re: stupid - 1/3/2003 3:55:46 AM   
dennis1943



Posts: 518
Joined: 12/25/2001
From: cross, SC, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by P-51B


Is this true? It seems that if an AMA member is flying on his own property (not an AMA club) he is still covered, I think....True or not? If true, why would a park be any different with respect to
AMA insurance? [/QUOTE]

it has to be a approved site to be covered just because he owns it doesnt mean it is approved

dennis

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dennis1943

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       Post #: 8

Re: stupid - 1/3/2003 4:32:56 AM   
Jim Branaum


 

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by s3nfo
You also might mention to him that his AMA insurance is only good when flying at an authorized flying site and that if a local lawyer could make an argument for negligence (flying a high powered airplane in a crowded space around people who are unaware of the danger does seem negligent to me) that his home owners may be off the hook too which means that any damages would be paid by him personally out of his pocket. [/QUOTE]

Sorry Jerry,
The comment about AMA coverage is not exactly correct.

Any AMA member is always covered as long as the Safety Code is not broken. If you are flying at an organized (chartered club) site, the rules of THAT organization become an extension of the AMA Safety Code. Your coverage is not limited to prior approved (chartered) sites, but the LANDOWNER may not be covered. The club charter process insures the specific landowner as does a sanction (supplemental insurance certificate).

That means that if I fly on MY land, I am covered by my HO policy AND my AMA coverage as long as I stay within the Safety Code. You might read it to see what it has to say about flying around crowds.

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Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to FlyingZee)
       Post #: 9

Re: Re: stupid - 1/3/2003 6:43:23 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Branaum


Sorry Jerry,
The comment about AMA coverage is not exactly correct.

Any AMA member is always covered as long as the Safety Code is not broken. If you are flying at an organized (chartered club) site, the rules of THAT organization become an extension of the AMA Safety Code. Your coverage is not limited to prior approved (chartered) sites, but the LANDOWNER may not be covered. The club charter process insures the specific landowner as does a sanction (supplemental insurance certificate).

That means that if I fly on MY land, I am covered by my HO policy AND my AMA coverage as long as I stay within the Safety Code. You might read it to see what it has to say about flying around crowds. [/QUOTE]


Thanks for the clarification, this is pretty much what I thought.

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to FlyingZee)
       Post #: 10

So then the question? - 1/3/2003 7:29:48 PM   
FlyingZee


 

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/30/2002
From: Gainesville, FL,
Status: offline 		What would y'all do if y'all saw this guy disregarding safety? You know that he would be sueing the AMA when they denied to pay for the person he injured or the cars that he damaged. Regardless of the outcome, the fact that the AMA had to defend itself would cost it a lot of money.

(in reply to FlyingZee)
       Post #: 11

Re: So then the question? - 1/3/2003 9:18:20 PM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by FlyingZee
What would y'all do if y'all saw this guy disregarding safety? You know that he would be sueing the AMA when they denied to pay for the person he injured or the cars that he damaged. Regardless of the outcome, the fact that the AMA had to defend itself would cost it a lot of money. [/QUOTE]

You do not need to worry about the AMA. When you, and every other member, applied for an AMA license, you agreed to follow the Safety Code. Virtually the first line of the Safety Code states that you must follow it or there is no coverage. When you received your license, you received another copy of the Safety Code with it, and again almost every time the AMA contacts you.

If he is flying in violation of the Safety Code, he has no coverage. It is cut and dry.

If, after talking to him, you feel that he will continue to do what he is doing, take yourself out of the situation. If you truly believe that he is putting people or property at risk, as with low passes over people, call the police, assuming you are not a law enforcement officer. Let them do their job, and make a decision if what he is doing is unsafe. You do not have the authority to do anything yourself. The last thing in the world you want is an altercation with him.

JR

(in reply to FlyingZee)
       Post #: 12

What is to be done - 1/4/2003 1:03:23 AM   
Scott_nra



Posts: 60
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: Richmond Virginia
Status: offline 		If he were flying over me, my kids or freinds I beleive that I would politely inform him that it is not safe, not funny, and if he crashes and hurts someone for ANY reason, I will come back over here and tie you in a knot!

I then would wish him a nice day and go about my business.


_____________________________

**************************
Epoxy is a beginners best freind!

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       Post #: 13

What is to be done - 1/5/2003 1:32:16 AM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scott_nra
If he were flying over me, my kids or freinds I beleive that I would politely inform him that it is not safe, not funny, and if he crashes and hurts someone for ANY reason, I will come back over here and tie you in a knot!

I then would wish him a nice day and go about my business. [/QUOTE]

That sounds like a great way to end up in jail on an assault charge, hope you like the view through the bars!

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

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       Post #: 14

Whatever - 1/5/2003 7:18:41 AM   
Scott_nra



Posts: 60
Joined: 8/29/2002
From: Richmond Virginia
Status: offline 		At least I can stand up for what I believe needs to be done when I believe it prudent. Otherwise the whole country would be run by a bunch of wuss types on the look out for the lawyers.

Come to think of it...kind of looking that way now huh. :


_____________________________

**************************
Epoxy is a beginners best freind!

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       Post #: 15

Re: Re: So then the question? - 1/5/2003 8:29:37 AM   
pinball-RCU


 

Posts: 501
Joined: 9/22/2002
From: Garrett Park, Maryland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]You do not need to worry about the AMA....

If he is flying in violation of the Safety Code, he has no coverage. It is cut and dry.

[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. In fact, not much is cut and dry when it comes to law suits. If this guy injured someone, and their lawyer found out the flyer had AMA coverage, it doesn't really matter much what the AMA says. What ma