New type ignition modual  
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Engine Manufacturers Direct Support Forum >> MVVS Support >> New type ignition modual
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New type ignition modual - 7/14/2006 4:48:55 PM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 4370
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Sorry if this has been posted before, but I belive the ignition modual for the latest Prosport 58 has changed recently.

The Choke servo is plugged into the ignition modual itself and is controlled by the electonics inside and throttle position, various settings have to be done according to which type of silencer you have (long or short) will only work on 9 - 13 volts and certain programming has to be done, now I have got all this from the instruction sheet included with my 58pro but I do think that a technical explanation would help me understand how it all works and what is happening.

There are some confusing instructions also with the modual in that step 6 says "Connect throttle potentiometer outlet on your receiver" so reciver throttle outlet connect too the modual, step 7 says "connect servo with the ignition box" now I am assuming it means the Choke servo and not the Throttle servo as in step 6, am I correct?

Could someone posibly give me a technical update on how it works?

Thanks in antisipation.

Mike

< Message edited by BaldEagel -- 7/14/2006 5:04:54 PM >

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RE: New type ignition modual - 7/14/2006 11:31:46 PM   
pe reivers



Posts: 3071
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		The ignition clearly needs two inputs to operate the choke: throttle stick from your transmitter, and rpm measurement from the ignition module.
Using these two inputs, it can calculate the choke servo position needed. What still fails in my humble opinion, is an added temperature differential sensor to check engine temperature and input that to the servo algorithm as well.

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Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik
There is sanctuary in analisys.

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RE: New type ignition modual - 7/15/2006 9:52:52 AM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 4370
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Preivers

Agreed without knowing the temp you are only getting a linier or set responce to the throttle position with the choke which may not be neccesary due to the temp either at intake, head or exhast, but this is a step forward from all the others at least they are trying to give us some sort of automatic choke, which can only help. Tell me is it neccesary to have the choke on a seperate channel to operate it for pre-start choking or is it set closed with the throttle closed, I do not have mine set up yet so do not know the set positions.

Away for a week fishing in Ireland so will not be able to reply immediatly, please be patient (15/07/06) Thanks for your reply.

MIke

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RE: New type ignition modual - 7/15/2006 10:19:28 AM   
pe reivers



Posts: 3071
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		It is not very clear from the manual, and I only have a standard ignition available, without the choke option, so I can not try out. I attach the ignition manual, so others may have a look at what we talk about.
It seems, that you can program the trottle stick positions at which you want the choke fully closed or fully open.


Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
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_____________________________

Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik
There is sanctuary in analisys.

(in reply to BaldEagel)
       Post #: 4

RE: New type ignition modual - 7/25/2006 12:33:45 PM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 4370
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Preivers

Have you had any problems with the magnets on the drive hub being in the wrong place, from a post on your help site it seems the magnets should be at 120deg is that correct? The magnets on my drive hub are at 180deg as I have not installed the engine yet I have not tried to start it so the problem may be there waiting to happen.

Mike

_____________________________

No matter what anyone says 100% is the maximum you can get.

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       Post #: 5

RE: New type ignition modual - 7/25/2006 1:19:58 PM   
pe reivers



Posts: 3071
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		I wish I had! that would mean I have received lots of engines with the new ignitions.
Waking up from my dream:
I can truely answer with "NO"
On MVVS engines, the second magnet should lead the magnet in top position by 120 degrees. (Eyeballed)
Contact your supplier about this.
edit:
Evolution ICU ignitions are 100% identical to MVVS ignitions, and have magnets at 240 and 120 deg positions (info MVVS and ICU flyer)

< Message edited by preivers -- 7/25/2006 2:26:06 PM >

_____________________________

Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik
There is sanctuary in analisys.

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       Post #: 6

RE: New type ignition modual - 7/25/2006 3:15:44 PM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 4370
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Preivers

Is it the same on the new ignitions as they have changed quite considerably can someone or Preivers who has the new ignition with the automatic choke and a 58pro confirm that the magnets on the prop drive hub are at *deg to each other.

Mike

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RE: New type ignition modual - 7/25/2006 11:54:06 PM   
glofuel


 

Posts: 94
Joined: 3/26/2005
From: milton keynesuk, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Preivers

Can you confirm what you actually mean by the following:

On MVVS engines, the second magnet should lead the magnet in top position by 120 degrees. (Eyeballed)

ie - at what positions should the magnets be in degrees when piston is TDC looking from from of engine with cylinder upright ?

Ian

(in reply to BaldEagel)
       Post #: 8

RE: New type ignition modual - 7/26/2006 1:33:26 AM   
glofuel


 

Posts: 94
Joined: 3/26/2005
From: milton keynesuk, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Preivers

Can you confirm new MSR ECU magnet timing positions as attached pic

[image][/image]

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to pe reivers)
       Post #: 9

RE: New type ignition modual - 7/27/2006 1:02:26 PM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 4370
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Jenny at JE has e-mailed me to say the Bob is trying out one and that they are awaiting a reply from MVVS, it looks as though we will just have to be patient.

Mike

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No matter what anyone says 100% is the maximum you can get.

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       Post #: 10

RE: New type ignition modual - 8/1/2006 2:16:38 PM   
pe reivers



Posts: 3071
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		I will not answer this question a zillion times. read what I wrote in the centence after the Eyeballed thing.
Once more:
With the piston in top, the ignition magnet is UNDER THE SENSOR. The other magnet is 120 degrees to the left if viewed from the engine front (leading the ignition magnet in the direction of rotation)
Capice?

_____________________________

Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik
There is sanctuary in analisys.

(in reply to BaldEagel)
       Post #: 11

RE: New type ignition modual - 8/1/2006 3:45:07 PM   
buckiflyer


 

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/2/2004
From: Troy, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Mr. Preivers..only one thing.. I have been searching the posts and learning... but if the 26 and the 35 up front has only one magnet .. what does this mean as to ign module type.... yes I am sure that they both only have a single magnet?? The pickups (sensor) is located at the 9 o'clock (looking a front to rear) position.

thanks

bucki

(in reply to pe reivers)
       Post #: 12

RE: New type ignition modual - 8/1/2006 9:26:47 PM   
pe reivers



Posts: 3071
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		This question is off topic. It means that you have the first type Vlach ignition, before they introduced the two magnet type (180 degrees apart)

_____________________________

Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik
There is sanctuary in analisys.

(in reply to buckiflyer)
       Post #: 13

RE: New type ignition modual - 8/2/2006 3:30:11 PM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 4370
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Just to clarify there are it seems three different types of ingition module the early type with one magnet, the later type with two magnets at 180deg and the new module with two magnets at 120deg.

To further clarify on the new module with the engine on TDC the ignition magnet should be under the sensor, the other magnet will be counter clockwise from this position at 120degs.

Privers: I have only written this as I think it may have confused some people as the sensor is on the left when viewed from the front so the other magnet is actually right of it, I hope I have this right (pun intended)

Mike

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No matter what anyone says 100% is the maximum you can get.

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       Post #: 14

RE: New type ignition modual - 8/13/2006 6:15:28 PM   
rmenke


 

Posts: 1845
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Merced, Ca., CA, USA
Status: offline 		privers:

Want to thank you for your great support. I have the new P ignition on a 3 cell 2100 mah lipo, elvo 26. My motor did not come with any instillation instructions for the new ignition, the old manual was sent nib. Apparently I also did not receive the "programming cable". Copied your instructions on this forum. Frankly, I am a real old dummy and from the very limited instructions, not about to plug in my $200.00 receiver or $160.00 servo into a 12V system. Figured the system would default to something without programming so am flying the system without programming with a Bison short muffler rather than chance damage to my system as I frankly do not know what to do if I did have the programming cable. Instructions suck for a dummy non electrical person, pictures are fuzzy off the internet.

Anyway, engine runs well as is with no connection to the choke servo, now operated off the transmitter (10 cchanel so no problem) Have about 8 flights on the a new yak 54. About 10-15 minutes into flight, the engine will burp and go back to running normally. The lipo still has over 11 volts at this point, well above the 9v minimum. Shortly after the burp, I start getting radio hits that are short in duration and no real control problem up high, a duration of about 1 second. System is PCM JR 10X, so no cheepe stuff here.
Yesterday got hit about 12" off the ground landing and tore things up a little.

My question is obvious, can the ignition system under these circumstances be causing my "hits". The motor comes with a NGK CM-6 plug that has small print on it "Not for aircraft" on it. Should I be looking for another type of plug prior to flying again? Would appreciate any thoughts you may have and really enjoy this forum.

< Message edited by rmenke -- 8/13/2006 6:16:58 PM >

(in reply to BaldEagel)
       Post #: 15

RE: New type ignition modual - 8/13/2006 9:09:53 PM   
pe reivers



Posts: 3071
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		To be frank, I have no experience yet with the new ignition. I would say, if it functions for 10 minutes without interference, it will do so for the next ten minutes as well.
Have you measured the servo output socket in the ignition? I think that is a standard 6V servo connection.

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Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik
There is sanctuary in analisys.

(in reply to rmenke)
       Post #: 16