RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G  
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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super c... - 4/23/2008 12:42:57 AM   
FliteMetal



Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: online 		Below is video of George's Tu-95 Bear bomber flap mechanism:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ScaleAero


Top side View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRcnDv8tlU0

Bottom side View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpluvzmBmoA

Single Center Flap Servo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtzqAI6md1Y



< Message edited by FliteMetal -- 4/23/2008 2:33:28 AM >


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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super c... - 4/23/2008 5:49:46 AM   
Props4ever


 

Posts: 1231
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Canada, ON, CANADA
Status: online 		Hey these are great videos George, thanks Ed for linking them on here.
This is cool set up, i just hope i could adapt this into my model.
I am trying to find how many types of sail servos are currently available and who manufacturers them currently!. If i could get it in standard size then i'm in luck
as i am really leary to use 1/4 scale servo in all honesty.

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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super c... - 4/23/2008 5:57:00 AM   
bentwings


 

Posts: 266
Joined: 12/22/2001
From: St.Paul, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I used to use the 1/4 scale servos in my Corsair for flaps as there just wasn't anything that big in a standard size servo. Futaba 134 I think. I eventually went to the big JR 4 oz behemouth. That one was pretty tough. It survived a flap down gear up landing in the grass/weeds. I still have one in the P-51 for the flaps. Works great.

edit

It has 139 in/oz torque and .28 transit. You will need the heavy duty DuBro arms.

< Message edited by bentwings -- 4/23/2008 6:00:31 AM >

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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super c... - 4/23/2008 6:30:36 AM   
bentwings


 

Posts: 266
Joined: 12/22/2001
From: St.Paul, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I should probably kick in here for what it is worth as we are building a big 118" twin engine bomber B-25. This has inboard and outboard flaps that are pretty big area wise. They are 50 deg down capable but 45 will be the normal flaps down angle. We have gone thru about 1/2 dozen JR servos trying to get a perfect combination. The problem is to first get 2 servos to work together. It is difficult to get the angle of the arms exact so both inboard flaps go down the same rate and finish at the same point. The next thing is to get both inboard and outboard to go down the same rate and distance. We've given up on getting all 4 flaps being at the exact same position and settled on getting them matched side for side. I'm at the point where the JR 'matchbox' is going to be the only way. I'm not even convinced that it will work. We've got more $$$ in flap servos than a lot of guys have in their whole flight operation. haha We have 4 $120 digital servos in the wings now and they don't work any better than the 15 dollar servos do. With a 10 channel radio we can mix about anything we want and we still can't get 2 of the dang things to track together. I hate to take one apart and tweek the servo pot which would probably solve the problem but it just leaves you wide open for future problems. We are almost to the point where we will convert the inboard flaps to bellcrank drive and use just one servo. It will be a lot harder to do this with the ouboard flaps as the majority of the OB flap is in the outer panel. Mechanical linkage is pretty much out of the question. We even designed the linkage on Solid Works and made all the parts together.

I sure would hate to have to program a mix to counter roll when the flaps go down. Funny thing is that I never really gave it much thought with the Corsair. Yeah I measured it but half flap was definitely not the same side for side and the plane never rolled a bit. I even used 1/2 flap for manuvering at times. It appears that 5 deg off isn't such a big problem but I really don't want to fight the plane on the maiden flight.

As big as your flaps are and as much as they will affect landing, it is something to think about. Just my dollar....inflation you know. haha

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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super c... - 4/23/2008 12:03:13 PM   
FliteMetal



Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: online 		According to George...the Futaba sailboat servo has worked out perfectly.
These are pretty easily found and mounting the flap using either arrow
shafts or carbon fiber rod with stops to force the flap tilt as the push rod
continues rearward is about as simple as it could get...as you can see in
the posts describing more complex systems.

I view flaps with respect to your project as a cosmetic feature and not so
much an element of control. I'm simply guessing, but 20 degrees on that
wing should have a decent effect on your landing approach.

The fiber glass arrow shafts will slip over an aluminum shaft as well for a
good slip fit that would need minimum lubrication.




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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super c... - 4/23/2008 5:46:13 PM   
ampbomber


 

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/29/2002
From: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Try and remember that I only use one 150 oz/in servo to drive both the right and the left flap and that drives both at the same time. I did modify the sail servo ( it's proportional) for 180 degree rotation so it could be slowed down with the Tx.

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       Post #: 281

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super c... - 4/23/2008 5:49:52 PM   
Props4ever


 

Posts: 1231
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Canada, ON, CANADA
Status: online 		Ed, Yes i know what you mean as George's perfect set up using sail servo, i personally want to
use standard size servo as it will save bit of weight and space too. On another forum one guys is saying
any servo could be programmed to do this if i buy servo from servo city and another fellow is saying servos
doesn't need to be modified as this could be done with computer on the transmitter. Now what do you guys have to say about this.
I will be using Multiplex Royal Evo 9 with either Multiplex Rx or Futaba Rx.

As for flaps on my model, i doubt its only cosmetic since i have scale airfoils on this wing with 1.5 degrees on incidence.
I am sure due to scale airfoils there will be good amount of flaps needed as 20 degrees may not be enough
but we will see once she is air born.


New updates are coming very shortly on the nose gear assembly, stay tuned. [)]

< Message edited by Props4ever -- 4/23/2008 6:12:58 PM >

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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super ... - 4/23/2008 6:26:58 PM   
FliteMetal



Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: online 		The gearing of the winch servo is what you are after. The derived torque permits the servo to over
come stall which will occur at a different rate if less than appropriate servos are utilized for flaps.
The additional increase in wing cord/area alone should contribute to a slower decent to base leg
and final to touch-down.

If you are not careful, you could end up with "a" working servo and others which stop working as
they are stalled during use. A winch or tillar servo is purpose built to permit a larger than normal
load distributed across a gear train acting like a multiple segmented hoist to achieve mechanical
advantage for load bearing in addition to the smooth motion across a large sweep angle. You are
in fact creating a block and tackle function.

The fewer components to the flap functionality tends to provide the best solution with the least
amount of maintenance. This is not a put it in and "forget it" component of your airframe. Using
two winch servos driving 180 degrees out on two flap sections isn't what I would call a stretch
based on the almost 50 degrees of George's flap. True George's are less area on a lighter plane
but yours can be twice as high since two servos would be used instead of one. Driving outside
flap section on each wing with 1 servo, and driving the inside flap section with another is what I
am talking about.

< Message edited by FliteMetal -- 4/23/2008 6:29:06 PM >


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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super c... - 4/23/2008 6:33:05 PM   
Props4ever


 

Posts: 1231
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Canada, ON, CANADA
Status: online 		I like you guys to see the track and slider that i designed for this set up as my final design, i am not sure it i posted these images in past posts but here it is once again.

This is single slotted track and 2 guiding pin slider that travels in the slot. Image shows movement of slider in the track.
When i designed it, i made small added section on the L/E of the slider so i could attach linkages to it but now after seeing how George did his, i will most likely be modifying that
frontal added section of the slider. I will be posting more pictures of this wooden mock up in the flap bay for you to get better idea.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by Props4ever -- 4/23/2008 6:51:42 PM >

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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super ... - 4/23/2008 6:38:43 PM   
Props4ever


 

Posts: 1231
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Canada, ON, CANADA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: FliteMetal
Driving outside
flap section on each wing with 1 servo, and driving the inside flap section with another is what I
am talking about.



You mean something like this Ed.

http://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21593&d=1168618612

< Message edited by Props4ever -- 4/23/2008 6:40:25 PM >

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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super ... - 4/23/2008 8:40:51 PM   
FliteMetal



Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: online 		Two of these...one for inborad and one for outboard "pairs" of flaps...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtzqAI6md1Y


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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super ... - 4/23/2008 9:50:27 PM   
ampbomber


 

Posts: 78
Joined: 7/29/2002
From: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Sammy, I'm still confused about your flaps. I thought you had said that each side was one piece. Please post a picture of the bottom of your wing.

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RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super ... - 4/24/2008 1:46:01 AM   
Props4ever


 

Posts: 1231
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Canada, ON, CANADA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ampbomber

Sammy, I'm still confused about your flaps. I thought you had said that each side was one piece. Please post a picture of the bottom of your wing.



Yes each wing has 1 flap on it..

< Message edited by Props4ever -- 4/24/2008 1:56:50 AM >

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