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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 6/29/2009 1:16 AM

Tom in Cincy

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Mine is still waiting for repair after a simular landing. That is really looking like a cg problem. Stab stalls before the wing/tail falls.

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/1/2009 9:56 PM

CrashPro

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ORIGINAL: Tom in Cincy

I have had my Bobcat for a year now. I have never seen a plane so difficult to land. Take off is no problem and it flys like a dream. Very fast and on rails. I have never had a good landing with this plane. The plane weighs 9lbs. It has retracts and brakes. On-board glow. The engine is a OS 65 VR ducted fan motor, rear rotor intake, full length tuned pipe, reversed clock wise rotation. A sport APC 11x8 prop turning 14,000 rpm. CG is 10.5.
I am going to move the cg forward .5'' (nose heavy) to see if I can tame this landing down.
If anyone has the magic pill please lay it on me. I'm tired of repairing this thing...

Landing is a problem I've never had with this plane.....No flaps or spoilerons used either. I set up my video camera on the tripod this morning and did some touch and goes....here is the VIDEO

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/2/2009 5:44 AM

bri_877

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Is everyone pretty much using the book throws? How much flap?

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/2/2009 3:44 PM

HeliTB

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CrashPro...You look more like a LandingPro to me. Excellent video showing the attitude of the plane for landing. It seems to be landing real slow to. Thanks.

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/2/2009 4:33 PM

CrashPro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bri_877

Is everyone pretty much using the book throws? How much flap?

Mine is set by the book...no flaps

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/2/2009 4:36 PM

CrashPro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeliTB

CrashPro...You look more like a LandingPro to me. Excellent video showing the attitude of the plane for landing. It seems to be landing real slow to. Thanks.

Thanks HeliTB

At the time of the video, there was only about a 1-2mph breeze right down the runway.....when it is more like 7-8mph I can land it even slower.
This airplane has a lot slower stall speed than most would think it has.

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/3/2009 9:53 AM

exciter900rr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrashPro

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeliTB

CrashPro...You look more like a LandingPro to me. Excellent video showing the attitude of the plane for landing. It seems to be landing real slow to. Thanks.

Thanks HeliTB

At the time of the video, there was only about a 1-2mph breeze right down the runway.....when it is more like 7-8mph I can land it even slower.
This airplane has a lot slower stall speed than most would think it has.

I wish that the winds like that speed on the weekends.....

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/3/2009 10:23 AM

exciter900rr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom in Cincy

Mine is still waiting for repair after a simular landing. That is really looking like a cg problem. Stab stalls before the wing/tail falls.

Well, for some reason, Now is the first time I was able to see the video, ( I run Mac, and sometimes WMV files don't like it, or vice versa) and although I was there, (LOL) I don't remember much other than I didn't wad it- I am Happy with the landing.... I really don't feel it's a CG thing at all- I think this particular landing was all nerves- All in all, I call it a keeper!
The plane flew again 30 min. later, ( I had to get the other one in the air to calm the nerves...) and there was no repair to get back up at all- the only damage was a prop that appeared to pick up a small pebble and had a chip in it, that I replaced, and a scratch on the nose which erks me, but it isn't broke, so I'm happy. The cause of it over revving was leaning out. The muffler lost a bolt, spread, and tank pressure failed- therefore it ran out of gas and I was in trouble. the nosegear sticks on occasion, and typically a blip of the throttle will release it. In this case, No blip of the throttle= No nose gear. The plane really is all good, and other than just plain "getting used to it", I think it's a blast.
I really don't feel that spoilerons are necessary per se, but I'm sure if you are in tight quarters it would be advantageous. I won't say anything more, so I don't get jumped by the mods. So, Just to set the record straight, "you can do what you will with the plane, but I bear no influence whatsoever with the outcome, and I in no way, shape, or form intend to offend, belittle, scrutinize, judge ones ability to understand my post, or ruffle anyones feathers." I just want to share my experiences, and help others enjoy this hobby. After all, Thats why I joined the hobby almost 25 years ago.... to have fun. I would have continued college if I wanted to debate constantly. I think R/C is far more Pro-active!

KM

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/3/2009 6:45 PM

Dig it

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Anybody have a starboard (right side) wing. I bent mine up a little more than I should have. lol

I'm in Canada but shipping wouldn't be much, it doesn't weight anything.

Dale

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/4/2009 5:43 AM

bri_877

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quote:

ORIGINAL: exciter900rr

So, Just to set the record straight, ''you can do what you will with the plane, but I bear no influence whatsoever with the outcome, and I in no way, shape, or form intend to offend, belittle, scrutinize, judge ones ability to understand my post, or ruffle anyones feathers.'' I just want to share my experiences, and help others enjoy this hobby. After all, Thats why I joined the hobby almost 25 years ago.... to have fun. I would have continued college if I wanted to debate constantly. I think R/C is far more Pro-active!

KM

Good answer...

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/4/2009 5:57 AM

CrashPro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dig it

Anybody have a starboard (right side) wing. I bent mine up a little more than I should have. lol

I'm in Canada but shipping wouldn't be much, it doesn't weight anything.

Dale

I had a spare right wing hanging around the house for a couple years......until I did this a couple months ago....

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/6/2009 8:40 PM

azrcaddict

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Hey guys...I pickd up a Bobcat used with no paperwork. Anybody know where the c/g is?? It has an OS .61 on it now. tried take off yesterday, a little trouble weith steering. Also seemed to take a LOT of speed to lift. Never left ground because of steering trouble.

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/6/2009 9:50 PM

HeliTB

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You will need to be sure the elevator flat with the top of the horizontal stab versus the bottom. If the bottom is flat the plane won't rotate up.

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/7/2009 1:51 AM

exciter900rr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: azrcaddict

Hey guys...I pickd up a Bobcat used with no paperwork. Anybody know where the c/g is?? It has an OS .61 on it now. tried take off yesterday, a little trouble weith steering. Also seemed to take a LOT of speed to lift. Never left ground because of steering trouble.

The manual says, "10 1/2" from the LE of the wing at the fuselage" I have mine in between 10 1/4" and 10 1/2" for the leading edge @ the fuselage, and it seems to fly fine.
HeliTB has it right to make the elevator flat with the top of the stab- I'll go out to the garage in a bit and measure it so it will be a no brainer for you.
Also, some have recommended that there be a "positive angle of attack" when the airplane is at rest on the wheels, but I don't recall anyone giving an actual number per se.
what I have experienced, is that the plane will lift off like a trainer like this- BUTTER as they say- smooth and silky, all by itself.... BUT too much, and your first landing will be absolutely unforgettable, ( bounce- bounce, bounce- etc....(My bouncy maiden http://cvrcclubvideos.us/HDVids/KenBobcatMaiden.wmv )with a loud crunch at the end. )as many in this thread have also noted. I would advise (at a C/G of 10 3/8" back from the LE @ the fuselage/wing intersection) ** I hate having to clarify, but this has proven to work well with me**
To set your angle of attack at between 1/4" to 1/2" positive. measure this by setting the plane on the ground, gear down, and measure from the trailing edge net to the fuselage, and then measure the center of the leading edge radius at the fuselage. for example, your trailing measurement is 6 1/8", then hopefully your leading measurement should be in the neighborhood of 6 3/8" to 6 5/8". this will give you a slightly positive angle of attack, and will let you climb out nicely with a little up elevator. **just a little bit, AT SPEED**

Now for the fun part... LANDING
I would just get a NICE RELIABLE LOW Idle set on your engine, and use it on your final approach- I have become accustomed with really flaring the elevator on this bird, and it has proven to give really nice landings with it once I got used to it. you just want to get into a nose high attitude, and keeping the nose up you can adjust your decent with little blips of throttle as necessary.
If the plane comes in too fast, it'll bounce, and with this plane it seems to bounce progressively higher each time, while the airspeed keeps bleeding off... And you know that aint no good!
Good luck with things, and if there are any more Q's, post'em! there's a ton of people in this thread who love to chime in and give advice!

P.s. there is a vid one page back of our club videographer shooting touch and goes- if you watch it, it will give you a feel for approx how it likes to come in.
KM

< Message edited by exciter900rr -- 7/7/2009 2:04 AM >

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/12/2009 4:08 AM

Sessholvlaru

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Here is my Neocat that I maidened today. Mods include the tail mounted HS-125MG elevator servo and rudder servos on the inside booms. The flights went very well. Weather wasn't too great, 10 to 20 mph winds though. Power is good with my Scorpion 4025-10, but I think I will end up going to 8 cells from 6 to make full use of the motor. As it is, the system puts out about 1,500 watts (motor is rated at 2,000) with an APC 12x12 prop. 51 amps. I wish APC made a 12x14 though. Tried a 13x10 as well, but ground clearance is at a minimum with this prop and the speed wasn't as great. Anyway, here is a pic. Hope to get more flights in tomorrow with the better weather!

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/12/2009 6:50 AM

azrcaddict

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Hey Thankks for all your answers and help. Hope to try the new settings within the next week. Had to come in getting dark and I may have fried a lipo pack. Too long in the air. Must listen to timer.

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/12/2009 9:50 AM

exciter900rr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: azrcaddict

Hey Thankks for all your answers and help. Hope to try the new settings within the next week. Had to come in getting dark and I may have fried a lipo pack. Too long in the air. Must listen to timer.

Just take your time, and get to "know" the plane- You'll be rewarded! This plane is a kick in the pants once everything is all sorted out! It'll be frustrating at first, but woth it in the end!
Yeah.. lipos are weird- I took a break from electric about 8 months ago, and despite storing the lipos at 50%, I came across one that just started puffing something fierce!
I have a "med cart" from a local medical establishment with like 100 little drawers in it, and just happened to notice one drawer was skewed kinda funny. I read lipo batts on it, and realized that I haven't been in it for quite some time, so I unlocked that side, opened it up, and WHOAH!!!!! I kinda freaked, grabbed the deans lead and hurled it out into the driveway! Of course, nothing happened. I did the bucket of salt water thing for a coupe of days and into the trash it went. Lipos seem to be just too darn fragile IMHO. I think if I get back into electric, its A123's from here on out!
KM

< Message edited by exciter900rr -- 7/12/2009 10:06 AM >

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/12/2009 9:54 AM

exciter900rr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sessholvlaru

Here is my Neocat that I maidened today. Mods include the tail mounted HS-125MG elevator servo and rudder servos on the inside booms. The flights went very well. Weather wasn't too great, 10 to 20 mph winds though. Power is good with my Scorpion 4025-10, but I think I will end up going to 8 cells from 6 to make full use of the motor. As it is, the system puts out about 1,500 watts (motor is rated at 2,000) with an APC 12x12 prop. 51 amps. I wish APC made a 12x14 though. Tried a 13x10 as well, but ground clearance is at a minimum with this prop and the speed wasn't as great. Anyway, here is a pic. Hope to get more flights in tomorrow with the better weather!

Any video on the horizon?
I was about to but the neoplanes version, but my Fiance somehow found one at the last minute and surprised me for my birthday, so I am curious to see how this one flies despite the fixed gear. I wonder how the plans compare to eachother? (nitro vs. neo)
I bet on electric this is pretty sweet!
KM

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/12/2009 12:55 PM

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The Kangaroo named for its reliable bounce on landing and all the pod and boom type aircraft tend to bounce if you land nose wheel first, its a toss up between having a positive angle of attack on the ground and having a bouncy landing, if you can get the nose up on the landing and touch down stalled then it should not bounce too bad, reflexed ailerons help on landing as it spoils the lift and adds washout to the wings, doesn't matter how fast I land mine it will not lift off again with the ailerons reflexed

If you have a puffed up LiPo, put it in the frezzer until the puffyness goes down and then slow charge it, I am still using a couple like this after about another 10 charges, tried a 6 cell A123 in my EDF Twister but the weight took the edge off the performance compared to a 4S LiPo, but being able to charge them on the field at 10 amps certainly helps.

Mike

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/12/2009 6:58 PM

exciter900rr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

The Kangaroo named for its reliable bounce on landing and all the pod and boom type aircraft tend to bounce if you land nose wheel first, its a toss up between having a positive angle of attack on the ground and having a bouncy landing, if you can get the nose up on the landing and touch down stalled then it should not bounce too bad, reflexed ailerons help on landing as it spoils the lift and adds washout to the wings, doesn't matter how fast I land mine it will not lift off again with the ailerons reflexed

If you have a puffed up LiPo, put it in the frezzer until the puffyness goes down and then slow charge it, I am still using a couple like this after about another 10 charges, tried a 6 cell A123 in my EDF Twister but the weight took the edge off the performance compared to a 4S LiPo, but being able to charge them on the field at 10 amps certainly helps.

Mike

Thats just it with the batteries- The A123's have only been used for flight packs in my GS airplanes, but I have seem a few aircraft with them that seem to fly extremely well- I believe it's only a matter of time before they offer larger Mah A123's. Running the risk of a fire in the garage while I'm at work is just not worth it, and storage in a shed or something outside is also out of the question, as the temps in the summertime can get over 120*. Yup! It's a good time to be in this hobby with all the new technology that keeps coming out!
KM

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/12/2009 7:17 PM

azrcaddict

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Hi hey in reference to the tower.75...It seems to be a very strong running motor. I am very happy with mine. Only problem was ordering part of the muffler.Teach me not to crash I suppose. Seems there was always a complete one not a partial. Haven't yet tried aftermarket exhaust on it. Starts great tunes easy.

Does anybody know if there is AA for Airplane Addicts? Is it harmful? Can you have too many?

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/12/2009 9:57 PM

Dauntae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: azrcaddict
Does anybody know if there is AA for Airplane Addicts? Is it harmful? Can you have too many?

Yes you can and you must act fast before it's too late......

send all you planes to me before you become a statistic and I will AHUM dispose of them properly hehe.

Dauntae

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/13/2009 1:07 AM

exciter900rr

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ORIGINAL: azrcaddict

Is it harmful? Can you have too many?

Nope! You're only limited by how much room you need to eat, sleep, and wash. all that extra room is called storage- Airplane storage.

This is what a garage is supposed to look like. However, there will hopefully be a transplant to a bit roomier one if we get the house we're bidding on tomorrow!
Can anyone say, "OVERSIZED 3 CAR GARAGE?" He he he he!

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/13/2009 4:10 AM

Sessholvlaru

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KM: Put three flights on the Neocat today, but sorry no video. I could let someone use my cell phone, but that quality of video might not be worth the effort. It did fly great though, an have gotten used to its unusual qualities. Anyway, as far as I know, the Neocat is exactly the same as the Bobcat. The box on the Neocat says Bobcat, and so do the decals. Just a different trim scheme, which is the only reason I got the Neocat. The black and yellow looks too bad ass. The Neocat does include a nice electric motor mount tho.

I can't wait to try 8 cells on the Neocat. On 6, it has nearly unlimited vertical and is pretty quick.

The only weird thing about the plane is (and I have seen others post about it) that when taking off it sometimes likes to go vertical. When it does, it seems to get into some bizarre high alpha thing that makes it seem like it needs loads of down trim until you get the speed back up. However, I have taught myself how to get it to lift off nicely with a shallow climb out. Overall I am very happy with this $99 airframe.

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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 7/13/2009 4:27 AM

exciter900rr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sessholvlaru

KM: Put three flights on the Neocat today, but sorry no video. I could let someone use my cell phone, but that quality of video might not be worth the effort. It did fly great though, an have gotten used to its unusual qualities. Anyway, as far as I know, the Neocat is exactly the same as the Bobcat. The box on the Neocat says Bobcat, and so do the decals. Just a different trim scheme, which is the only reason I got the Neocat. The black and yellow looks too bad ass. The Neocat does include a nice electric motor mount tho.

I can't wait to try 8 cells on the Neocat. On 6, it has nearly unlimited vertical and is pretty quick.

The only weird thing about the plane is (and I have seen others post about it) that when taking off it sometimes likes to go vertical. When it does, it seems to get into some bizarre high alpha thing that makes it seem like it needs loads of down trim until you get the speed back up. However, I have taught myself how to get it to lift off nicely with a shallow climb out. Overall I am very happy with this $99 airframe.

Cool- Nice to know about the high alpha thing, cause mine was doing it again today- Or I should say that I payed more attention to it today... I'm thinking it only happens under a certain airspeed, and then once over that speed, the lifting tail goes to work and keeps the nose down.
also nice to know that it's the same plane, or really close to it- I have heard that the non retract version had slightly thinner airfoils, but no one has been able to substantiate those claims.
If I ever wad this one up, I suppose I'll find out!
Thanks for the flight report!

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