RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 5:50:09 AM

topper5

Posts: 54
Joined: 1/19/2005
From: SPRINGVILLE, UT, USA
Status: offline

just a quick reminder to all that are setting up a pusher prop, no mater how you do it make sure your fuel clunk is to the back of the tank, i got my tank in and realized my clunk was in the nose of the tank and my first flight would have ended up in a quick dead stick.

KNOWCRASH: the fact of the balancing my tail heavy bird scares the h... out of me, to get it balanced on the 175mm CG is gonna be a nightmare, kinda like flying a winged anvil, take off will be fine but landing will have to be FAST because anvils don't float.

(in reply to knowcrash)

Post #: 126

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 12:10:24 PM

knowcrash

Posts: 30
Joined: 11/2/2004
From: cherokee, NC, USA
Status: offline

topper 5: i did the same but luckily a fellow modeller said i should turn the tank around for that same reason. also, i was lucky that the plane would not take off because too much nose heavy. has anyone actually flown one of these? i'm taking mine to the field today and i hope it doesn't come back in a body bag. btw i took the 91 off and put a K&B 7.5 w/pipe to help the balance.

(in reply to topper5)

Post #: 127

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 1:28:39 PM

G-ROOKIE

Posts: 169
Joined: 6/2/2003
From: JACKSON, MS, USA
Status: offline

Hi Knowcrash!

When you get to the field check every thing and give us an update asap. Also take some pic's of it taking off and landing. One more thing, which way did you position your fuel tank ?

Thanks again and good luck on your flight today.

(in reply to knowcrash)

Post #: 128

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 2:10:51 PM

rhklenke

Posts: 2433
Joined: 6/3/2002
From: Richmond, VA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: knowcrash

hay guys has any one checked the CG on the bobcat (WITH OUT THE MOTOR), just for fun i checked mine (RETRACTS & RADIO INSTALLED) and I'm so tail heavy it's not funny,

i put mine together with a 91 magnum xls and i could not put enough weight in the front to balance at the recommended cg. can anyone enlighten me on this. seems like the instructions are way too far forward.

Ah, now the Achilles heal of Nitroplanes comes out! There is a thread in the Seaplane forum about the Nitroplanes Seawind and guys were raving about how much better it looked than the Great Planes one. Then somebody tried to fly it... Turns out, it won't fly (or flys like crap, if at all). In fact, in the only picture of the Seawind on the Nitroplanes site that shows it off the ground, you can clearly see the feet of the guy standing behind it that just threw it!

I hope it works out with these things, but it may be that it looks much better than it flys...

Bob

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< Message edited by rhklenke -- 8/20/2006 2:17:56 PM >

(in reply to knowcrash)

Post #: 129

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 4:47:59 PM

kmtranmd

Posts: 427
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: eugene, OR, USA
Status: offline

Test flight report please. And share with us your set up if it worked out well for ya.

_____________________________

GI Doc

(in reply to rhklenke)

Post #: 130

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 6:37:27 PM

Canardman

Posts: 89
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Waco, TX, USA
Status: offline

I have mine ready to fly, I had to add 1.5 pounds of lead to the nose. Now I fear having a wing break off in flight. I'll let you guys know how it flys this week.

Specs:
O.S. 61
hitec 645mg on wings
hitec 225mg on ele,
Hitec 225bb on rudder
futaba 3004 on steering and throttle.

< Message edited by Canardman -- 8/20/2006 7:08:05 PM >

_____________________________

Hate to see a crash.... Hate to miss one too!

(in reply to kmtranmd)

Post #: 131

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 7:01:11 PM

EASYTIGER

Posts: 7676
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: nyc, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: booker-RCU

quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_matt

Sorry maybe I am on too many "Ignore" lists :-) I will try again.....

Do these models have flat bottom (Clark Y) airfoils?

Thanks!!

Yes they do.

Galen

That's the smartest question ANYBODY has asked.
With a flat bottomed airfoil, the plane may trim out and perform dramatically different from the original Bobcat. Be prepared!

(in reply to booker-RCU)

Post #: 132

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 7:08:47 PM

mr_matt

Posts: 6738
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: online

Hi G-ROOKIE and B58,

First before we get all lathered up, I would never recommend that anyone buy one of these models, for a prop or otherwise. Many of these new ARFs look like they have never been even test flown, and I would never buy a kit that had never been flown to my satisfaction (and not just one tentative flight, but demonstrable consistent flight performance)

I think the incredibly low prices on these planes are very seductive, but given the relatively massive investment needed for ANY turbine to put on the plane, I think the low kit costs makes this false economy.

As a strictly technical exercise, I believe this plane (if it is the one I saw at my field) could be flown with a JetCat P-60. With internal modifications, I think the plane could hold well over 40 ounces of fuel yielding a 6+ minute flight time. On the other hand, I have no idea how difficult it would be to balance, and in turn how heavily loaded it would be after balanced.

As stated, I would look at this strictly as a technical challenge, NOT as a good way to spend hard earned hobby dollars. There is no free lunch, and the quality TURBINE models in this hobby can be easiliy identified just by going to a flying field. It is just like when you are deciding on a turbine.....take a break from RCUniverse and go to a jet rally and you will see what really flies and who is really having fun.

Regards,

_____________________________

Matt
JetCat rep

(in reply to G-ROOKIE)

Post #: 133

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 7:14:49 PM

EASYTIGER

Posts: 7676
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: nyc, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhklenke

quote:

ORIGINAL: knowcrash

hay guys has any one checked the CG on the bobcat (WITH OUT THE MOTOR), just for fun i checked mine (RETRACTS & RADIO INSTALLED) and I'm so tail heavy it's not funny,

i put mine together with a 91 magnum xls and i could not put enough weight in the front to balance at the recommended cg. can anyone enlighten me on this. seems like the instructions are way too far forward.

Ah, now the Achilles heal of Nitroplanes comes out! There is a thread in the Seaplane forum about the Nitroplanes Seawind and guys were raving about how much better it looked than the Great Planes one. Then somebody tried to fly it... Turns out, it won't fly (or flys like crap, if at all). In fact, in the only picture of the Seawind on the Nitroplanes site that shows it off the ground, you can clearly see the feet of the guy standing behind it that just threw it!

I hope it works out with these things, but it may be that it looks much better than it flys...

Bob

That is one cheesey photo!
But I don't think all is lost.
I think a LOT of these planes end up in the hands of modellers who NEED a full instruction manual and need their hands held.
These kits don't provide diddly in the way of documentation. Part of the price, I guess. But you will find that most of them build and fly just fine, I've had a few of the Nitromodels planes, can't beat them at the price. Can't speak about this Bobcat, have not had one yet, but chances are it will fly just fine. Yes, it might need noseweight, and yes, it might be up to you to figure out the CG and throws and such, and yes, you might need to check certain aspects of the construction, but if Great Planes sold it, yes, you might get much better support...but it sure ain't going to be $129! And you might STILL have problems.
Other side of the coin is it's a SUPER bargain at $129...unless it folds a wing on the first flight. Then it's not such a great deal!
But I think chances are the plane will fly fine.

(in reply to rhklenke)

Post #: 134

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 7:53:15 PM

EASYTIGER

Posts: 7676
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: nyc, NY, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_matt

Hi G-ROOKIE and B58,

First before we get all lathered up, I would never recommend that anyone buy one of these models, for a prop or otherwise. Many of these new ARFs look like they have never been even test flown, and I would never buy a kit that had never been flown to my satisfaction (and not just one tentative flight, but demonstrable consistent flight performance)

I think the incredibly low prices on these planes are very seductive, but given the relatively massive investment needed for ANY turbine to put on the plane, I think the low kit costs makes this false economy.

As a strictly technical exercise, I believe this plane (if it is the one I saw at my field) could be flown with a JetCat P-60. With internal modifications, I think the plane could hold well over 40 ounces of fuel yielding a 6+ minute flight time. On the other hand, I have no idea how difficult it would be to balance, and in turn how heavily loaded it would be after balanced.

As stated, I would look at this strictly as a technical challenge, NOT as a good way to spend hard earned hobby dollars. There is no free lunch, and the quality TURBINE models in this hobby can be easiliy identified just by going to a flying field. It is just like when you are deciding on a turbine.....take a break from RCUniverse and go to a jet rally and you will see what really flies and who is really having fun.

Regards,

Good points...there is a bottom line here, which is you are guinea pigging putting a turbine on this plane, and the ultimate price COULD be a smooshed $2500+ turbine engine when it hits the dirt. That's life on the bleeding edge. Big difference between putting a pusher prop on it and a turbine, risk-wise.
Me, I think pretty much ALL of these models ARE indeed flown in China before being released...but I'd be pretty sure nobody tested it with a turbine.

My guess is the plane with be fine with an MW44, but that remains to be seen.

(in reply to mr_matt)

Post #: 135

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 8:03:16 PM

B58

Posts: 579
Joined: 3/19/2002
From: La Luz, NM, USA
Status: offline

As in my earlier post, pusher glow first. And I am using an OS 91FX. That is comparible weight wise to a Wren 44, and the power shouldn't be too far off. However, it is about $2300 less of a risk. I would not suggest anyone do the turbine on this until some of them are flying. The quality does look pretty good, and it seems well engineered. But such things as one screw on each side of the fins to hold the stab, fairly short wing tube, question of cg, these are all things that need to be worked out. I am going to reenforce the forward boom mount screw also. another week or two and there will be some experiece some folks can pass on to the rest of us. I do have two of them, and they arrived in good shape and look very good for the price. Bob

(in reply to EASYTIGER)

Post #: 136

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 8:38:22 PM

knowcrash

Posts: 30
Joined: 11/2/2004
From: cherokee, NC, USA
Status: offline

rain delay on my test flight today

will be next weekend before i get to try again. someone please fly their's first and give us an update.

(in reply to B58)

Post #: 137

RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat? - 8/20/2006 9:56:26 PM

topper5

Posts: 54
Joined: 1/19/2005
From: SPRINGVILLE, UT, USA
Status: offline

OK well it looks like mine will be ready Tuesday or Wednesday, with my ys-45 and tuned pipe stretched up the side, and a 2400ma C cell battery stuffed in the nose it comes surprisingly close to balancing, just a few more small issues with my retracts and working out my canopy hatch latch and ill be air-borne.

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