Peeved about fuel labeling?

Peeved about fuel labeling?
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Peeved about fuel labeling?

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Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/8/2006 8:43:07 PM

Flight Risk

Posts: 267
Joined: 6/7/2003
From: private, CO, USA
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Is it just me, or is anyone else frustrated with the way glow fuels are labeled (specifically for planes)? In the store there seems to be about 5-6 brands, and within those brands can be 5 or 6 fuels. Some bottles have stickers with the nitro percent which you hope have been put on the right bottle. Most do not give the oil percent and simply say 2 stroke, 4 stroke, or 2 and 4 stroke. Some are castor synthetic blends, but what is the ratio and percentage. Often if there is information it is tiny print. I wish there was a set labeling system which would give all the needed info in big numbers (such as fertilizer, 10-30-20 or whatever). I generally fly a combination of 2 and 4 strokes and pick up a 15% syn/castor blend, but they rarely state the oil percent. And what’s with the green or pink color? I’ve heard that green is for 4 strokes as it is total synthetic, but not always. Last time I was looking for fuel I spent at least 15 min. trying to figure out all the labeling. I know I should just find a brand and stick to it, but after all these years I still haven’t found it. Then I’ll read something that all engines need castor, but not all castor is good.

ARRGGHHH!!! I've thought it is best to buy a brand like Magnum or Cool Power, but they don't really tell you you what's in there, and with the cost of fuels jumping I am looking at prices more. I guess I see why some of you mix you own.

Rod S

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On a Wing and a Prayer...........and a tank of Nitro...

Post #: 1

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/8/2006 10:45:31 PM

carrellh

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Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Garland, TX, USA
Status: offline

A good number of the fuel companies put the contents on their web sites.
If they don't you can always call and ask.
If they say it's a "secret" you have to decide for yourself whether you trust them to put in enough oil to protect your engine.

Definitely don't make any decision based on the color of the dye they use. One brand's green might be equal to another brand's pink or blue.

You specifically mentioned Magnum and Cool Power.
Magnum does not put much info on the web but I have been happy with their 'premium sport fuel' in 10% and 15% nitro with all synthetic oil.

Cool Power puts all of the numbers on the web. http://www.morganfuel.com/

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Regards,
Carrell

(in reply to Flight Risk)

Post #: 2

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/9/2006 4:47:42 AM

RaceCity

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Joined: 7/10/2002
From: NotUpNorth, USA
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The average purchaser doesn't demand this information so it's not there. Go to your local flying field and ask a few people if they know what kind of oil they're using, and what percentage they recommend. I'd wager most don't know, and the rest couldn't tell you.

"Price" and "How much Nitro" are the only two things that matter to the average customer.

My feeling is that if the data isn't on the bottle....the bottle stays on the shelf. ESPECIALLY if it's green.

Sure...you can make a phone call to the mfr, or log onto a website, but why should you have to???

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AMA 63990

(in reply to carrellh)

Post #: 3

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/9/2006 7:31:48 PM

wjvail

Posts: 347
Joined: 9/5/2002
From: Meridian, MS, USA
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Since I mix a little fuel for the local area I find I'm torn with this labeling issue. I find that most people THINK they know what they want in fuel but in reality would be very much happier with something else. Many modelers are under the mistaken belief that more oil and more nitro are better. Many believe that because the instructions that come with their engine says they should use fuel with 18-20% oil, that that is the BEST choice.

In short, I'm inclined not to put what's in it because many folks don't really know what they want in their fuel and only want what the local "expert" recommends. With that said, if you ask me I'll tell you what's in it... but in the end, do you REALLY KNOW what you want?

Here is a link to a thread on another forum:
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t161384p1/?highlight=wjvail

Bill Vail

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"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

(in reply to RaceCity)

Post #: 4

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/9/2006 8:57:22 PM

Flight Risk

Posts: 267
Joined: 6/7/2003
From: private, CO, USA
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That Morgan site had some good info. Now I'm getting more confused. If a fuel is working then go ahead and get it? But it would still be nice to know that a castor/syn blend wasn't 50/50, or that it wasn't meant for cars and is 12%. Not all fuels even say what they are for. This summer I have been flying a biplane with a cowled OS FS.61 engine which overheats in 5 min. no matter how many holes I cut in the cowl, so I've been flying it cowlless. If I knew how much oil was already in the fuel I might try to adjust the amount and see if there was a difference. Basically, I just like to know what I'm getting. If it says 16% or 18% I would probably get it. If it says 14% or 20% I may try it with certain engines. Oh well!

Rod S

_____________________________

On a Wing and a Prayer...........and a tank of Nitro...

(in reply to wjvail)

Post #: 5

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/9/2006 10:56:25 PM

wjvail

Posts: 347
Joined: 9/5/2002
From: Meridian, MS, USA
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Rod.. Your questions are not out of line. If your goal is just to fly, then buy some fuel and burn some.

On the other hand this is a hobby and I, more than most, have integrated fuel, mixing fuel, running fuel, testing different fuels and in general, hobbying with fuel as a big part of my modeling. It has been enormously enjoyable and equally educational. You have a right to enjoy this "subpart" of this hobby as I have and as others do. You have a right to test fuels with more or less oil, nitro, castor, synthetic and find what works for you and to do that, you need to know what your buying.

If you wish to include experimenting with fuels as part of your hobby then seek fuels that publish what's in them. If you wish to fly, buy some WildCat/Morgans/Sig/Powermaster/RedMax/Byrons/etc. and fly....

One thing you said that I find alarming is that some fuels are not labeled with their intended use. As I mentioned, I mix a little fuel for the local folks. There is a large difference in the Car fuel, 4-C, 2-C, control line and Heli blends. I would NOT run the 25 car fuel in a heli! The control line stunt fuel would be a very poor choice in a car. The 2-cylcle fuel has too much oil and castor and not enough nitro for optimal 4-cycle performance. You have to know what the fuel was formulated for. If the jug just says "Fuel" and nothing more, I'd recommend keep looking. If on the other hand it says WildCat (or any number of other fuel blenders) 20% Four Stroke fuel you can be sure it will work for your application.

Hope this helps.

Bill Vail

< Message edited by wjvail -- 8/10/2006 12:32:22 AM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/9/2006 11:06:44 PM

bentgear

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From: Brandon, MS, USA
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Bill, keep making it just like you are doing now and I'll keep using it.......Just don't make it purple, flaming pink or black and all will be well. It needs have over 6 % oil and less than 18% with a nitro content between 10 and 30%. Oh, did I mention that I like a little castor, not too much, just the right amount.

All joking aside, Bill does make some good fuel.

Ed M.

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Did you bother to Read The Fine Manual yet?

(in reply to Flight Risk)

Post #: 7

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/10/2006 12:45:29 AM

hobbynutt

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Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Safford, AZ, USA
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Labels on fuel? Yeah, it can be tricky. The plainest I have run across have been on "BYRON Fuel" jugs. They seem to have whatever mix/use, you could want. The sticker will pretty much tell all you need to know. I burn alot of "juice", and found "TOWER SPORT 10%" to be useable in both my 2 and 4 strokes, at 3000' alt. I fly 5 days a week, retirement is GREAT!

(in reply to bentgear)

Post #: 8

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/10/2006 1:10:24 AM

loughbd

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From: Bremerton, WA, USA
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Everyone complicates the issue. Most name brand fuels work just fine. You can always find someone that will swear BY any given fuel and someone who will swear AT any given fuel. I use 10% nitro, 20% castor oil in every glow engine I use except my Tartan's that use straight methanol and 8% castor oil

(in reply to hobbynutt)

Post #: 9

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/10/2006 2:53:49 AM

Rcpilot

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From: Arvada, CO, USA
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I run Omega 5% in all my glow engines. I only use 2-stroke engines. It's 17% oil. 70% synthetic and 30% castor.

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Airplanes have expiration dates. It''s just not printed anywhere on them.
I''m not really an airplane pilot; but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/10/2006 7:54:01 PM

loughbd

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From: Bremerton, WA, USA
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And it works fine doesn't it?

Here's what I'vre been doing lately/ I have about 20 gallons of Hobby Shack 10% nitro 20% castor fuel and I acquired 15 gallons of Powermaster 15% nitro, 18% castor/synthetic oil.

I mix it 50/50 and end up with 12.5% nitro, 19% castor/synthetic oil which is mostly castor oil. Run it in all my glow engines except the Tartans which use straight methanol and 8% castor.

< Message edited by loughbd -- 8/10/2006 7:58:10 PM >

(in reply to Rcpilot)

Post #: 11

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/10/2006 11:50:41 PM

wjvail

Posts: 347
Joined: 9/5/2002
From: Meridian, MS, USA
Status: offline

Hey Ed... I didn't know you were here! Good to hear from you.

Thanks for the complement on the fuel. As you know, and others I've talked to know, I never set out to sell fuel. It's just a hobby within a hobby; still, it's nice to hear other like it. As I've said in this thread and many other places, it's OK to say you would rather run brand X. I'm always open to feedback, good or otherwise. It does make it easier to spend the time to mix it when others seem to like it.

Bill Vail

_____________________________

"Well, Nothing bad can happen now."

(in reply to loughbd)

Post #: 12

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/15/2006 5:50:09 PM

Ed Cregger

Posts: 7484
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: wjvail

Since I mix a little fuel for the local area I find I'm torn with this labeling issue. I find that most people THINK they know what they want in fuel but in reality would be very much happier with something else. Many modelers are under the mistaken belief that more oil and more nitro are better. Many believe that because the instructions that come with their engine says they should use fuel with 18-20% oil, that that is the BEST choice.

In short, I'm inclined not to put what's in it because many folks don't really know what they want in their fuel and only want what the local "expert" recommends. With that said, if you ask me I'll tell you what's in it... but in the end, do you REALLY KNOW what you want?

Here is a link to a thread on another forum:
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t161384p1/?highlight=wjvail

Bill Vail

----------------

Now who am I going to trust? Me, who has been flying glow engines since the late Fifties (doesn't mean I'm right), or some guy I don't really know that doesn't list the ingredients in his fuel? It is possible that you know far more about fuel and what I need, but how will I know that? I won't, so, in the end, I'll fall back to burning fuels that I have experience with.

No offense intended, but to me, you're just another local expert that you seem to hold in low regard. Me too, by the way. I'm the only local expert I trust until someone convinces me otherwise.

Oh, another point. Some of the distributors of engines in this country remove the original factory owner's manual and replace it with their own, which are often at odds with the manufacturer's instructions regarding oil type/content and recommended nitro content. Who do you trust?

_____________________________

Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to wjvail)

Post #: 13

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/15/2006 6:48:55 PM

Sport_Pilot

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Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
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quote:

Oh, another point. Some of the distributors of engines in this country remove the original factory owner's manual and replace it with their own, which are often at odds with the manufacturer's instructions regarding oil type/content and recommended nitro content. Who do you trust?

And sometime an American hobbiest / national expert stands in for the engineer who designed the engine who speaks for the company when the user asks questions, or has a problem. Not that the national expert isn't good. Bax for example is very good, and even fellow engineers can disagree. But often the distributer must pay for the damaged repaired engines, the manufacture sells to them at a huge discount to even their discounted retail price. Even the engineer cannot accurately predict the percent of returns on a new product.

(in reply to Ed Cregger)

Post #: 14

RE: Peeved about fuel labeling? - 8/15/2006 7:30:39 PM

wjvail

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