Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops?  
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Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 10:00:41 AM   
The Big Kahuna


 

Posts: 74
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: MannumSouth Australia, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Built a 15 size Peacemaker with profile body. Goes like hell but when I put it into a loop it flies in a large loop circle anf seems to fall in on me (bloody thing chases me around the padock) I have the engine offset 2 Degrees pointing to the outer of the circle and I have a rurrer set according to the plan. No wing warp is visible. Any ideas?
       Post #: 1

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 10:58:43 AM   
greggles47


 

Posts: 51
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		G'day mate,

Before I can give an informed opinion, let us know what motor you're using, prop, line length and the color of your undies before it starts chasing you.

sounds a bit like something is not aligned properly. Maybe the elevator not square ?? Check the alignment from the front of the model, looking down the propshaft, to make sue everything is dead square.

Is the motor still pulling strongly at the top of the loop?

Let's know the answers to above and I'm sure the answers will follow.

Regards

Greg

(in reply to The Big Kahuna)
       Post #: 2

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 11:29:55 AM   
The Big Kahuna


 

Posts: 74
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: MannumSouth Australia, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Motor is an Enya 15 bb, prop 8x4, undies brown. It pulls well to within a bees whisker of the top of the loop at which point it seems to fall out of the sky (I'm sure its to chase me or why else would it do it?). During the fall the lines go slack however, therudder kicks in and the bugger then flies away from me - breaking at leasr one line - of course. A mystery to me!

(in reply to greggles47)
       Post #: 3

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 11:43:13 AM   
greggles47


 

Posts: 51
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Are there enough pieces left to check the alignments?

Sounds Like a monster, I have a much over weight Peacemaker, flies like it's on rails Motor is a Magnum gp 15, plenty of power on a 8x4.

How much elevator travel? too much of course can cause the model to stall, with results like you describe.
Do you fly with experienced fliers who can spot porblems from outside the circle? It often helps to have eyes from a differnet aspect checking.

I didn't really want to know about your undies

Greg

(in reply to The Big Kahuna)
       Post #: 4

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 12:24:07 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6654
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I'm not familiar with a Peacemaker, but tried to find a description or picture with Google, and no luck, so...........

It sounds like a speed design. They usually don't have the wing area for high-g pitch maneuvering. They usually have small wings and high wing loading.

Ever heard the phrase, "pigs don't fly"?

(in reply to greggles47)
       Post #: 5

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 12:30:29 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6654
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: offline 		If it has enough wing area, and has engine offset (not really important) and rudder offset then think about what remains.

Check to see how far the CG is left-to-right. Or more exactly, how far the CG is inside-to-outside.

Check to make sure the wing is equally long inside to outside. I've seen a stunter built that was supposed to have a longer inside panel but had been built the opposite.

Do you have any wingtip weight in the sucker? Why not?

Rake the lines back on the wingtip and try it again.

(in reply to da Rock)
       Post #: 6

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 1:39:14 PM   
bikeracer


 

Posts: 150
Joined: 7/8/2006
From: , UNITED KINGDOM
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: darock

I'm not familiar with a Peacemaker, but tried to find a description or picture with Google, and no luck, so...........

It sounds like a speed design. They usually don't have the wing area for high-g pitch maneuvering. They usually have small wings and high wing loading.

Ever heard the phrase, "pigs don't fly"?


Don't think George Aldritch ever flew any pigs,but he did design the Peacemaker around 1958,it'll fly triangular loops without the aid of flaps.Originally designed for combat but was too vulnerable with that sheet fuselage.

.

(in reply to da Rock)
       Post #: 7

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 5:09:18 PM   
telmore


 

Posts: 114
Joined: 11/13/2003
From: Bucks, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Aeromodellers BIGGEST selling plan of any type ever.





Is your cg as shown on the plan?

< Message edited by telmore -- 8/13/2006 5:10:06 PM >

(in reply to bikeracer)
       Post #: 8

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 5:29:54 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2822
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The CG on the plan looks about right. You should only need about 20 degrees each way of up and down on the elevator. Too much elevator throw can stall the tail with the result that loops get bigger with more control (did some experiments on this).

The advice to move the leadouts back is wrong. Having leadouts too far back results in a loss of line tension up high. If they are where the plans show they should not be your problem unless your CG is too far forward.

(in reply to telmore)
       Post #: 9

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 6:25:21 PM   
skaliwag



Posts: 1117
Joined: 1/9/2003
From: santa cruz, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The Peacemaker is known in the US as a Flite Streak.

_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Round Engines and Two Wings.

(in reply to da Rock)
       Post #: 10

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 7:27:57 PM   
telmore


 

Posts: 114
Joined: 11/13/2003
From: Bucks, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		The FliteStreak has a larger span than the Peacemaker (36.5" vs 42" .

GMA used to fly a FliteStreak with an Oliver Tiger with 15% engine offset - something that John Allcock has recently tried here in the UK with a Peacemaker.

Tony

(in reply to skaliwag)
       Post #: 11

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 11:24:46 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6654
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Well by golly, I guess us Yanks missed something the readers of AERO MODELLER got and we didn't. Hey, sorry but we seldom saw that magazine over here in the 50s. And seldom saw airplanes like that in combat since we were moving to wings like the VooDoo. And we were flying 35 engines in combat. None of us screwed around with 15s unless we were planning to fly in WCs. And back then almost nobody even considered going where FAI was flown. chuckle.... what else?

And I'm sorry to have given wrong advice about the leadouts. I should have taken more time and given the whole suggestion, "move the leadouts backward or forward and try it, and if moving them one way doesn't help, move them the other." It's actually not a given which way moving them will affect the flying unless your airplane has no other problems. When it's got an unknown problem, you're trying stuff to troubleshoot and best not expect all the known solutions to work the way they're known to work.

Kewl copies of that article. It's actually quite a laugher for a Yank like me. Selling you guys on that airplane being a US combat design. If I remember correctly, most of Europe was flying diesels on combat planes about then weren't you? Truth is, about the only time we heard anything about Europe was every couple of years when there was a WC and a couple of Yanks would give it a try.

But hey, sorry about the bad advice.

(in reply to telmore)
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RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/13/2006 11:31:26 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6654
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Don't think George Aldritch ever flew any pigs,


Actually, he told me about at least one. Aldrich was sort of a funny guy. But honest. He did engine work for years and often showed up at Nats and talked shop with the guys. But seemed sorta burned out on stunters.

(in reply to da Rock)
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RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/14/2006 12:46:06 AM   
The Big Kahuna


 

Posts: 74
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: MannumSouth Australia, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Thought I would show you a Peacemaker under constraction. I believe my looping problem is in fact toooooo much elevator creating a stall. How critical is the CG point.?

Attachments
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(in reply to da Rock)
       Post #: 14

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/14/2006 1:23:57 AM   
gcb



Posts: 2419
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: skaliwag

The Peacemaker is known in the US as a Flite Streak.


The profile Peacemaker is somewhere between the Flite Streak and the Flite Streak Junior in size. There are LOTS of similarities, including building method.

In the USA, GMA designed a Peacemaker with full fuselage...also similar in outline...also powered by the famed Oliver Tiger.

George

Edit: Kahuna, what size lines are you using? Something like .012x52' should be about right.

< Message edited by gcb -- 8/14/2006 1:29:49 AM >

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       Post #: 15

RE: Why will my Peacmaker not fly loops? - 8/14/2006 3:53:41 AM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2822
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The CG should be close to the plan position as you can get it to start out with. Then move it around if you choose.

I'm not clear whether George designed the Peacemaker before, during, or after the Flitestreaks. I took Army training at Ft. Chaffee Arkansas, next to Ft. Smith, where the Fox factory is. At that time George was working for Duke. When I got my first weekend pass in January, 1958, I went to visit George. He was packed up to leave the next day, having quit Duke. He showed m