RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Electric Aircraft Universe] >> Park Flyers & Backyard Flyers



Message

Swift427 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/11/2007 7:45 PM)

quote:

dr victor
"Do NOT count on "unloading" during flight to greatly reduce the current drawn. In most cases this effect is MINIMAL. In the case of High pitch props at high RPM, the in-flight amperage may actually RISE substantially. Factor this into your calculations."

I found this to be true during bench testing with my Super Whattmeter; especially noticeable after going from full throttle to half throttle. This is why we can rearm the Tx throttle after it looses all power from the built-in low voltage cut-off.

Another factor is the variable pulsing rate of the Tx/Rx/ESC. For example the long can 400 motor in the Swift can draw as much as 16 amps from a fully charged 3S LiPo during the first few seconds at full throttle. And probably less then 8 amps at full throttle just before the low voltage cut-off. However, some contend that the average amperage draw during the flying time would be around 12 amps no matter whether the flying pattern was aggressive or conservative. The reason being that each pulse is delivering as much amperage as the motor would draw at full throttle with a continuous stream of voltage/amperage traveling through the brushes. So even though my Astroflight Whattmeter reads only 5 amps at 1/2 throttle the brushes are still receiving on 'average' about 12 amps with each pulse. Effectively though isn't the Whattmeter correct in that the motor is only consuming about 5mAh say every couple seconds? Would that equate to 150mAh amps each minute. Would that equate to 1500mAh in 10 minutes which would be 75% consumation of a 2000mAh LiPo which is near the recommend 80%. Any way you get the idea. Now my brain is about fried.

Well, I've said my two cents worth and then some this month so I'm taking a break the rest of this month knowing that Dr Victor, Tam popo and others will be relieved not having to digest my lengthy expositions from which even I tire from constantly editing like the following summation.

It would seem that the perfect battery that would actually provide the means for the Swift to perform at its maximum without overheating the stock motor and live up to its name would be the following: A LiPo hybrid 2.8S 10.36V 2000mAh 8C for $25. John Cunningham's latest thoughts (6/11) on his thread "EZ-ESC, HZ & PZ brushless Motor ..." represent not only the frustrations of a first-class engineer with years of problem solving experiences, but also the frustrations of less knowledgeable flyers who are none the less enthusiastic and enjoy tinkering and a challenge. My biggest challenge could very well be that I don't know when to quit and retire my Yellow Buzzard. I tend to think it takes a modeller with years of flying experience to succesfully fly the Swift time and time again. A very seasoned flyer can foresee any problems so as to correct them before damaging the plane. And yet it would appear from this Swift thread that there are a few (just a few) gifted flyers, with limited experience, that are quite impressed with the flying ability of their Swift to the point of it being one of the best planes they've ever owned. And so, like the TV program Mission Impossible I keep hoping its possible that some fine morning I'll bring out the best in my Swift and it will bring out the best in me.

"I have a dream!"



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/11/2007 9:45 PM)

Swifty, you're fingers must be burning, put the wattmeter on them and see what they're pushing out[:D][;)] Ok, firstly I'm no way into technics etc - I read this/battery, motor or whatever works and use that as a basis (let someone else experiment!!). Dynamics: No-one has mentioned that earie word "wing camber" cos there isn't any[:o] year, dihedral but no real underwing camber to get real lift - it seems rather flat and not a lot of lift generated from upperside to create the vacuum needed for lift. Secondly: That 10.8 Nimh pack is great, it gets my Strykers really humming, lots of near vertical with same motor as Swift. What gives? My flying site is same as Docs (valley type, easy retrieval etc). The swift with 10.8 flys but won't climb much above the valley top launch area, and slooooowlllyy loses altitude no matter what I do. The battery definately needs that kick up the backside just before flight to get the best out of it. Read some of the thread I missed while away and jut want to point out or clarify 1/2 things for those that also dabble in Nitro. No problem with Nitro flying at all. Yes, the swift is not good and is one of my buying errors that won't happen again. Rectification is now the name of the game and it will fly if i have to drop it from the top of Ben Nevis (for U-Tube). Wifey has banned new planes but never said anything about b/less motors, esc, Lipos etc - Yippee!! My swift is too good to scrap (no dings, etc) so will modify with anything I can salvage from my scrap box - money isn't a problem for me Doc cos I'm retired (55), the prime minister pays for my flying and my pension company who I screwed many year ago!![8D][8D] Anyway, lots of building to do/finish, flying mr Zagi and swift tomorrow at 5am (no-one about, not even wind!!). Byee for now!!



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/11/2007 9:52 PM)

Doc, cos you are where the Hobbits live you might like to take a look at your Aussie mates site titled "The australian link..." or something like that - they're a good set of guys into electric (Mr Clovus, Ozrcboy, digtal Images, Maiden-Crash etc) - good down under vids as well, and guess what, they sleep/awake your time, amazing!!! I go on cos I'm insomniac and a sad old git who likes to learn. Check out www.ozrcboy.com for lots of info!! Byee!![:)][:D][8D][8D]



friedclutch -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/12/2007 4:23 AM)

Hey guys.... Chiming in here on the swift. I have a Stryker C and a swift. (And a buncha gas planes) I'm a very experienced RC pilot. I got the swift for a relaxing fly. It flys ok and does pretty much as I expected aside from being low on power.

Anyways.. I have read most of this thread and I still have not found how to program the ESC for my 3 cell 2100 lipos. (STryker C lipos) I would love to try it out. Can I just plug in the lipo and not fry the board? I would be soldering in Deans of course. I dont care if I fry the motor from too much wot on the lipo juice. The motors are cheap and its cool bragging rights. ;) Thanks!!



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/13/2007 8:10 AM)

Hiya, Fliedclutch (sounds like a Chinese meal eh!!). Welcome to the madhouse[8D] I don't know the full answer but I'm sure it is in this thread somewhere by Mr Swift427 or JohnCunningham. I've got an E-photo of circuit oard from standard F27b showing jumper to be removed but it bears no relation to the Swift board I've just stripped out 2 hours ago. Can't help ya man, sorry. Or just use a delicate throttle thumb!![:D]
_________________________________
Do you visit the Dark Side yet - try it, lots of info for us Stryker nuts. I've got 4 now with various b/less, lipos, brushed etc. Just finished my swift conversion - its now got a Hyperion 2180K 6-pole motor, 10.8 NImh or 2100 Lipos, 6 channel rx and 25A esc - prop is a sod cos you're limited to 7x4 (boom in way).[:D] Easy conversion, ready for maiden-type weather. All the swift electrics are going into a Beaver (no jokes please, I'm Scottish) with swift TX, esc etc. By the way, this is an experimental swift, cos I kept the connected V-tail mixer from Stryker for the swift wing seros. Wot this gives me is 4 elevons!!! Operates on tail AND wing flaps just like any elevon plane (Zagi, Stryker, Slinger etc). See how it goes. BYeeee![:D][:)]



friedclutch -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/14/2007 3:55 AM)

I'll have to re-sift the thread and see if I can find it. Its either a jumper or a transmitter sequence like on the Typhoon. (To set the esc for lipo cut off)

Been to the dark side quite a few times. Satisfied with the stryker C for now in stock trim. Even the stock C is pretty quick. Way too fast for typical "park flyer" conditions. You need more room than just a park. That's one of the reasons I got the swift. It was a toss up between the super cub and swift. Honesty I think the super cub would've been a better choice. The swift is still a relaxing fly though. I picked up the drop module for an added interest. A light payload is a must though!!



dr victor -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/14/2007 11:56 AM)

Heh, the Super Cub is all the talk recently - they just got a bunch of them in over here. Apparently people are having a laugh launching fireworks off the Super Cub and I also overheard a conversation where the anti-crash system was tested... they flew the Super Cub up to altitude then put the controller on the ground - supposedly the thing landed itself!

...Franken-Flyer isn't doing so well though - same-old-story: couple good flights then a bad crash. How much more abuse can this thing take?! Taking a breather from the math, endless scrounging for info and searches for anything Swift related... but not for long!



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/15/2007 1:03 AM)

FC - I think its about PZ Spitfire and is on page 9 of the manual/instructions book. I'll look myself and keep you posted! Byeee![:D]



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/15/2007 1:19 AM)

Wots up Doc? That anti-crash thing is only a "smoothing out" system to avoid heavy-handed thumbs and too much feel of the controls (I was told). There are no sensors as mentioned in the advertising blurb to stop crashes, just a big heap of bull dung in the middle of the crashing site.
_____________________________
Just been watching Billy Connolly in new Zealand - you lucky sod living there. Sculptures in streets of Wellington/Auckland etc and wifey remembers that terrible train crash many many years ago (130 dead!!!). But then she started "name 4 new Zealand cities" I got 3. "wot is the national dish of New Zealand", "why do New Zealanders hate the Swiss" and of course my favourite "name a World Champion Sportsman (not sailing) from New Zealand". Still a beautiful country and all the Hobbits you can eat!!1[X(][X(] bed for the old insomniac. Byee.
_______________________________
Swift stuff (why we're here mr censor) - waiting to maiden b/less swift, had to cut down an 8x4 apc prop slightly to clear boom but then another problem- vibration is awesome, very powerful, wings need re-inforcing to stop working loose. Will keep everyone posted. Byeee!!



dr victor -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/15/2007 7:13 AM)

[:)][:D][:)]



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (6/17/2007 10:17 PM)

Hello! Update on b/less swift. managed to get a 7x7!! prop on and took it out. The vibration is still there with a vengeance but this moto puts out some revs (2100K). A short flight proved awesome - up and away, climb rate terrific (better than stock stryker with 10.8V Nimh). iuse the same battery as i didn't fancy "breaking" any of my 2000+ Lipos. I'd lost the "feel" for ailerons cos all my other planes are elevon control (Zagi, 4 strykers) and nosed in slightly on landing (no wheels) resulting in broken wire to moto and aerial wire snapped (both easy fixes!!). Repairing tonight for tomorrows flight(s). A package with 4 servos, lipo charger and 2 lipos not arrived, 2 days late.
___________________________________
Have to return 3 E-Sky rx with crystals cos they don't sync with my FM E-Fly TX - the rx supplied with TX is fine (mini crystals) but the other 3 don't work to commands from TX. It must be the crystals (wrong frequency). Sending them back tomorrow! not the shops fault just a misunderstanding.



cbatters -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (7/1/2007 5:58 PM)

Several thoughts after reading through a lot of the thread with tons of useful tips.

1. I have been flying my Swift for about three months

2. Was flying a Challenger before the Swift (along with a bunch of other planes) and the Swift was my first Aileron plane

3. No big difficulty upgrading from Challlenger ERT to Swift's EAT (Challenger is a good pre-aileron plane as it banks very sharply)

4. Launch benefits from either a headwind or a strong arm (I rarely do ROG with V tail planes and seems like suicide with the Swift which CANNOT BE STEERED ON THE GROUND IN ANY SHAPE FORM)

5. I have not found the plane to be nose heavy with battery in stock location

6. Nose dropping or dropping wing on takeoff is not a balance problem rather, lack of air speed / stall

7. Useful mods include putting thin layer of epoxy on the foam root of the wings and taping plastic reinforcment to wings with packing tape

8. I connect aileron connectors below the wing after securing wing. MUCH easier than trying to stuff connectors into fuse.

9. MUCH better results flying if battery is recently charged / warm

10. Planning to try a 3S 2000 MAH lipo for a little more power with stock electronics / can motor



Clint



cbatters -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (7/1/2007 7:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tam popo

Wots up Doc? That anti-crash thing is only a "smoothing out" system to avoid heavy-handed thumbs and too much feel of the controls (I was told). There are no sensors as mentioned in the advertising blurb to stop crashes, just a big heap of bull dung in the middle of the crashing site.


While I am not a big fan of ACT - it is most certainly an active control system using photo cells to keep track of the sky / ground.





cbatters -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (7/1/2007 8:11 PM)

OMT - Happy to pay S&H for defective Swift electronics to see if I can figure out what gets cooked - especially if you were running LIPOs.

PM me with Paypal account and charges.



Many thanks,

Clint









cbatters -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (7/8/2007 2:44 PM)

Several thoughts regarding stock ESC in swift.

1. Thee are no heat sinks on swift fets

2. Swift uses very low resistance surface mount FETS

3. There is a peak current limitation of the FETS but it is up in the range of 30A

4. Power dissipation in FETS is current squared *resistance

5. Power is the duty cycle of the ESC * peak current * voltage

6. Dissipation in FETS will be higher with 11.1V LIPO even if average power is the same as 8.4V NIMH becuse of current squared * resistance of FETS

Any suggestions on best source for 11.1V /2000 MAH LIPO + Charger


Clint

PS: Am I the only one having trouble editing posts on this forum? (I cannot highlight words/sentences - all I can do with the mouse is set the focus for insert / delete of chars.)



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (7/8/2007 3:39 PM)

Hiya! There is a problem with posting and use and this has been reported to "they who shall be obeyed". The Aussie gentlemen reported it 2/3 days ago.[;)][8D]



Chuck Steak -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (7/9/2007 3:59 AM)

Took my swift out for its maiden flight on the weekend and man what a bird.
First time on an aileron plane and only after a handful of flights on the HZ supercub.

One thing I did notice tho is that it favours a roll left. I trimmed this up with an adjustment in the right pushrods but it still favours going left.
Anybody come up with any suggestions that might assist with fixing this.

Its a great plane, a total buzz to fly...



cbatters -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (7/9/2007 6:42 PM)

My plane did the same thing Use electronic trim on ailerons to make plane fly level and then adjust aileron linkage so neutral trim on transmitter applies hte same aileron compensation.


clint



birdman75 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (7/16/2007 11:31 PM)

I took mine out for its first flight and it flew great. I don't know if i messed the battery up but it started running out quick. Mine also favored a roll left, i trimmed it but it still favored left. This would be no problem for an experienced flyer but possibly annoying. It climbs well, it can go fairly fast and turns smoothly. It's very stable but i did find the elevators to be touchy, maybe its just me. It was also very windy and it still flew well. I must say i have zero experince flying planes, i've flown in the FMS simulator and that is it, and i did not crash the plane at all. The only problem was when i handed the controls to a younger pilot with no experince, first thing he did was go for a loop, he went straight up... stalled and nosedived into the ground from id say 60 to 70 feet. the entire motor housing cracked and collapsed, this was the only damage it took. I do not know if i should fix it or buy a new fueselage, maybe i can post pictures and get ideas for repairs..



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (7/17/2007 10:31 AM)

Hiya guys!! My swift is now full on b/less and 2000+ lipo[:D] but this problem some of you have (pulling to one side) is not uncommon - don't knock yourselves out about it, it happens to quite a few people. My only suggestion is double check all the clearances using a piece of string. Get a long piece of string and start with wings. Measure distance from a point on nose to forward tip of main wing - check they're the same. If not there is usually quite a bit of play in fuse to adjust and tape to stop movement. do same on tail - measure from centre of prop to tail (both sides) and adjust if needed. Check the motor thrust line is dead square and that the motor is tight in housing and not pulling plane to one side. Thats all I can suggest at moment - it happend to me but was cured when I fitted new b/less. The old 480 had moved slightly and the wing was sloppy. The new b/less has its own problem - terrible vibration when going vert!!! But I can put up with that for the sake of fun.[:D][:)]



Zeta30 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (8/20/2007 4:58 AM)

Hey I just found this forum and have been reading it pretty diligently.

I just received my Swift last week. I was pretty reluctant on getting one because I have never flown an airplane before. I have a G3.5 Flight Sim and have been practicing pretty heavily on that so I decided to go ahead and go for the Swift.

I first took it to a field down the street from me, but it definitely was not large enough and ended up crashing a few times after on about 30 seconds of flight. I finally took it to a high school nearby that has a huge field that is about 2 football fields wide and 2 football fields long. I did much better there. I went through 2 battery packs with a few minor crashes. On my last flight I was probably about 50' up, I had it in the air for about 4-5 minutes and was making a soft turn when a puff of wind caught the top of the plane and I watched it plummet faster and faster nose first into the ground, I cut the motor and tried to pull up on the stick but it did no good. DOH!!!!! The fuselage now looks like an accordion.

I ordered a new fuselage and already have the guts removed from the old plane. I can't wait until the new parts come in so I can go out and try again!!!! I think I will really like this...



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (8/20/2007 11:50 AM)

Zeta - well done pal! You're one of the few who can get into the air and fly first time. Stick with it, its a tough little cookie and parts are easy to get. If you come across any problems (installation of new parts etc) let us know. There's plenty of us here to ask. Swift ain't easy to fly, and when you graduate to another plane just ask for advice. All the best mate!![:D][:)]



Zeta30 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (8/20/2007 1:24 PM)

Thanks Tam - I really hope the parts go back into the new fuseloge easier than they came out. I had to cut the fuseloge up in order to get the motor out, but that may be because the old one was so mangled out of shape.

Does anyone have any tips on getting it back together or is it pretty straight forward?



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (8/20/2007 1:54 PM)

Hiya Zeta - a few things to make it easier. Unscrew 4 screws under the fuse (these hold electrics in). Go to back of plne and undo the knurled screw thing that holds the control wire to the "horns" on tail. This allows the control wire to move so that you can access servos in Fuse. Take wings off by disconnecting the servo wires that come out of fuse. Place wings to one side. Unscrew the motor from fuse if you haven't already done it - where did you cut the fuse to remove motor (on top or side?). You might be able to reach the connectors for motor thru hatch - disconnect. Now look from front of fuse into the canopy hole, you will see the circuit board and wires coming out of the top it - these are servo wires. Take a mental note of which goes where and if you can disconnect them. The circuit board is a combined unit esc etc, be careful and try and remove it by pulling to front of plane. It might come out now. Once its out you're left with old fuse which needs to be stripped of tail servo and the boom tube removed from it. There is a screw holding this on near where it meets the fuse. Undo and try pulling tube out - this is probably the hardest part of rebuild - it took me ages. Let us know how you go on with it so far I'm retired at 55 and spend all day trying to fly or building planes, so you can always find me here and there's plenty of others.
__________________________________
All this is a bit hazy cos I stripped my swift and installed b/less (2100KV) and 2200 3S lipo - go like shi... off a shovel!!! Not flown it for 2 weeks cos of other projects.
_________________________________
My hangar: ME262 edf, Swift, 3 Strykers, 3D Profile Thunder Tiger, Beaver, Easystar, wwwgoflykite.com and Zagi. See you later!![:)]



tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (8/20/2007 1:55 PM)

Sorry - new plane is this - www.goflykite.com Thanks



Page: <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 21   next >   >>  

Valid CSS!




SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

© 2001 - 2007 24-7 RC, LLC, all rights reserved.
0.546875