RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/10/2008 1:22 AM

tam popo

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Mongrel (JohnM) - its the same here with my original 480, its had dogs abuse, 3S, WoT in fact the lot thrown at it, and guess what, It flys one of my Strykers brilliantly - there's life in this underated old dog yet!!!

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/10/2008 1:29 AM

Zeta30

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quote:

Did you get that inrunner you were considering from United Hobbies?
What size 3S1P Lipo will you use? Have you bench tested it with APC 6x4?
How many amps/watts does the motor draw at full throttle with the Whatt-Meter?

I'm going to try a motor I had in a Heli I just replaced. I figured I wasn't doing anything with it so I may as well give it a try. Someone on a Heli board said that he uses the same motor in his Stryker and it was more power than he ever needed. The motor I'm trying is this one:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLBS1&P=FR

I did order the motor from United Hobbies and it was DOA. I sent it back and am still waiting. According to their web site they shipped it so I should get another one in about a week. So if my Heli motor doesn't work out I'll put the other one in.

I don't have a watt meter so I can't measure it. That's on my tool wish list.

The updated forecast is clear sunny weather for the weekend, but at this point I'm not getting my hopes up.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/10/2008 2:08 AM

The_Mongrel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeta30

quote:

Did you get that inrunner you were considering from United Hobbies?
What size 3S1P Lipo will you use? Have you bench tested it with APC 6x4?
How many amps/watts does the motor draw at full throttle with the Whatt-Meter?

I'm going to try a motor I had in a Heli I just replaced. I figured I wasn't doing anything with it so I may as well give it a try. Someone on a Heli board said that he uses the same motor in his Stryker and it was more power than he ever needed. The motor I'm trying is this one:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLBS1&P=FR

I did order the motor from United Hobbies and it was DOA. I sent it back and am still waiting. According to their web site they shipped it so I should get another one in about a week. So if my Heli motor doesn't work out I'll put the other one in.

I don't have a watt meter so I can't measure it. That's on my tool wish list.

The updated forecast is clear sunny weather for the weekend, but at this point I'm not getting my hopes up.

I reckon that motor will go very well!! I have similar motor in my Easy Star turning a 6x5 prop (cut down 7x5) and it takes the Easy Star to constant vert!! So think you will be fine!

Cheers
-J

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/10/2008 3:27 AM

Zeta30

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I forgot to add I'll be flying a 2100mAh 3S LiPo with a 20C rating. I've got a couple of 2200mAh LiPos but I think that is getting a little heavy. I save them for my Heli and every now and then I'll slip them in my Super Cub.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/11/2008 6:56 PM

Swift427

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tam popo

Mongrel (JohnM) - its the same here with my original 480, its had dogs abuse, 3S, WoT in fact the lot thrown at it, and guess what, It flys one of my Strykers brilliantly - there's life in this underated old dog yet!!!

Not all long can 480 brushed motors are created equal (NO KIDDING!

)
Some that didn't even undergo a break-in bath before flying are still kicking

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/13/2008 8:19 PM

Zeta30

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Brushless update!

The motor I went with was very strong. The only problem is that it really sucks the juice out of the batteries. I usually get about 10 min 30 sec fly time with my Trojan and Brushless Super Cub with plenty of juice to spare. I was only able to get about 7:30 of fly time with this motor. The first pack went down to the voltage cut off for my ESC which is 9.8V. I was using a Thunderpower 2100mAh 20C battery. I reset the timer on my TX to 8 minutes and I started to come in for a landing at about 7:00, when I was lining up for the landing the Battery cut off went off again.

Taking off was easy, I gave it full throttle and threw it at about a 45 degree angle and it just kept climbing. I flew at about 3/4 throttle most of the time and that seemed to be plenty of power. I didn't even throw it very hard, more like a soft lob and it took off like crazy!

I am going to try a different prop. The one I used today is an APC 6 x 5.5 pusher prop. If I go down to a 6 x 4 will that help extend the flight time?

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/17/2008 10:40 PM

Swift427

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CONGRATULATIONS on getting enough muscle in your Swift to make it an enjoyable flying experience.

quote:

Taking off was easy, I gave it full throttle and threw it at about a 45 degree angle and it just kept climbing. I flew at about 3/4 throttle most of the time and that seemed to be plenty of power. I didn't even throw it very hard, more like a soft lob and it took off like crazy!

Being that you fly aggressively "(WOT)" why can't you set your cut-off close to 9.0 volts as the lipo voltage should rebound to at least 9.5v. If you were flying very conservatively than I can see a higher cut off around 9.5v as the lipo may only rebound to 9.7v. The tradeoff of a beefier motor with aggressive flying is less flying time, but you have several LiPo batteries for backup-

quote:

I have 5 3S 2100 mAh and 2 2200 mAh LiPo batteries so I have plenty of packs to take out to the field.

I would hope 200 watts (12volts x 17amps) is enough for getting the 22oz Swift airborne with a brushless inrunner. Once airborne I would think 125 watts (e.g. 10.5volts x 12amps) is more than enough burst for doing your basic aerobatic maneuvers. You may have more motor muscle than you need. If you get that other inrunner from United Hobbies you should do an amperage draw comparison at 12v and 10.5v both at half throttle and full throttle. If you had an Astroflight Whatt Meter you could bench test compare each motor with the 6x4 prop.

Another variable is condition cycle vs. not condition cycling to see if there is a noticeable difference in peak performance. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7351702/tm.htm

Let us know if tip stalling is now a thing of the past. Do you still find the low throw rate helpful or just fly with high rate setting?

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/18/2008 1:31 AM

Zeta30

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thanks for the info Swift

I don't have the stock RX and TX so I don't have High/Low rates. I can program my TX for different rates but just kept the servos at 100% throw and no expo.

With the two packs I put through it last weekend I had no tip stall.

I swear I checked United Hobby web site two weeks ago and my mtoor status said shipped. Now it is back to reserved. I'm going to have to send an e-mail because they received the defective one almost a month ago and the new one should have been shipped by now.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/18/2008 1:50 AM

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quote:

I would hope 200 watts (12volts x 17amps) is enough for getting the 22oz Swift airborne with a brushless inrunner.

Be careful with these calculations as the battery will not maintain 12v being drawn at 17A. Depending on the batteries output specs, it may drop as low as 10v which will affect your calculations. You will need to take into consideration the 'C' rating of the battery. I would suggest a Watt meter to get an accurate reading, and not rely on the basic calculations.

Cheers
-J

< Message edited by The_Mongrel -- 4/18/2008 1:57 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/18/2008 2:49 AM

Swift427

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quote:

I am going to try a different prop. The one I used today is an APC 6 x 5.5 pusher prop. If I go down to a 6 x 4 will that help extend the flight time?

Yes (If the throttle management is identical for both). Ideally, there is a sweet spot (prop size) that results in a motors best efficiency (Prop Load).

What would be interesting is to try a 6x3 prop being that you already have enough power and see how much it increases flying time. You can use a conventional right-hand APC 6x3 tractor prop by reversing the motor from CW to CCW rotation and reverse mounting the tractor prop. The Catch22 is that you will have to increase to full throttle if you want to get the same speed as you were getting with the 6x5.5 prop at 3/4 throttle. 2850Kv is certainly going to draw the amps with a 6x5.5 prop as the motor is not spinning as efficiently as with a 6x3 prop. The 6x3 will also allow the motor to spin the 6x3 prop at a higher rpm than it was spinning the 6x5.5 at higher throttle settings.

The PropLoadFactor would be reduced from 33 to 18, and if you don't need to fly/race all that fast than the 6x3 might offer the best compromise. The other thing is that the motor will run at least 10% more efficient with a 6x3 prop than the 6x5.5 prop. A 6x3 prop powered by a fully charged (12.5v) 3-cell LiPo should be more than enough for successful hand launching without tip stalling.

6x3=18 PLF
6x4=24 PLF
6x5.5=33 PLF

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/18/2008 2:59 AM

Swift427

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quote:

I would hope 200 watts (12volts x 17amps) is enough for getting the 22oz Swift airborne with a brushless inrunner.

The idea is that the LiPo is at its fullest charge during the initial full throttle launch. During these several seconds the LiPo may go somewhere from 12.5 volts to 11.5 volts or 12 volts average. With a 6x3 prop this should be more than enough power to get airborne.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/18/2008 3:57 AM

Zeta30

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I just checked United Hobbies again it says the motor has been shipped. I'll check again in a few days to see if it changes back to reserved.

I may be able to get to a hobby store this weekend I'll check out props if I do. I'll pick up a 6X4 and 6X3 and see how they do.

All these variables are just too confusing for my simple mind to grasp.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/18/2008 4:40 AM

The_Mongrel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeta30

I just checked United Hobbies again it says the motor has been shipped. I'll check again in a few days to see if it changes back to reserved.

I may be able to get to a hobby store this weekend I'll check out props if I do. I'll pick up a 6X4 and 6X3 and see how they do.

All these variables are just too confusing for my simple mind to grasp.

ZETA - Forget all of the jargon... the easiest way to remember this stuff is.... if you use an conventional tractor APC prop (and most manufacturers are the same), the writing on the prop will ALWAYS face the direction the aircraft will travel. Then get you motor spinning in the direction that will push your plane forward. But just remember where the writing will face and you will be fine. NEVER mount your prop with the writing facing rearward. It will still push your plane, but at an excess load on the motor, and reduced power output.

Cheers
-J

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/18/2008 2:40 PM

tam popo

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Thank Gawd someone said it, JohnM - right on Bro....
Also Zeta, you can always do what some of us EZ* owners do and cut and balance a 7/8 in APC down to perfect size. Balancing is a must though!!!
I thought I said I wasn't coming on here anymore, must be getting senile in my old age - or stupid!!!

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/18/2008 2:50 PM

The_Mongrel

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Hey Tam,

My cut down 7x5 on the EZ* makes it scream its little **** off - let me tell you!! It now has constant vertical!! NICE!!!

Cheers mate
-J

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/19/2008 11:42 PM

Zeta30

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Ok, I went ahead and bought an Astro 101 Whatt meter and a new prop. Here are the results:

35 Watts No prop attached at WOT
335 Watts 6 x 4 Graupner Super nylon prop (tractor prop)
425 Watts 6 x 5.5 APC pusher prop (this is what I used last weekend)

Can someone more in the know help me out with what I can do with this info?

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/20/2008 12:26 AM

tam popo

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Zeta - only one question, when you ran the Tractor prop was it in reverse, in other words did the writing of the size face the front of the plane - if it did then that fugure was correct.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/20/2008 12:50 AM

Swift427

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quote:

I thought I said I wasn't coming on here anymore, must be getting senile in my old age - or stupid!!!

I'd be willing to bet you that Zeta30 can properly mount whichever prop he chooses with his eyes closed.

When you upgraded your Swift to LiPo did you still experience an occassional tip stall? How many flights did you get on your brushed motor with the 3 cell LiPo?

After upgrading did you try any ROGs or always hand launch?

Do you ever get the urge to make any other mods to your Swift and give it another fling for old time sake? Or is your Swift now hanging on the wall as a colorful piece of decorative aeronautical art?

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/20/2008 1:19 AM

Zeta30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tam popo

Zeta - only one question, when you ran the Tractor prop was it in reverse, in other words did the writing of the size face the front of the plane - if it did then that fugure was correct.

Yes, the wording was pointing towards the front of the plane.

quote:

When you upgraded your Swift to LiPo did you still experience an occassional tip stall? How many flights did you get on your brushed motor with the 3 cell LiPo?

After upgrading did you try any ROGs or always hand launch?

Do you ever get the urge to make any other mods to your Swift and give it another fling for old time sake? Or is your Swift now hanging on the wall as a colorful piece of decorative aeronautical art?

I think I got about 6-8 flights on the brushed motor before burning it up. I burned up 3 brushed motors with LiPos. (2 on my HZ Super Cub and the one on my Swift).

It was actually easier to do a ROG launch, unfortunately I can't always do that because the condition of the ground I fly at is sometimes very uneven, so I got used to the hand launch. When I still had the stock TX a trick I learned was to move the aileron trim adjustment all the way to the right, then after I hand launched I would trim back to the proper position. We all know that on the hand launch it is prone to bank to the left. This trick is difficult to do with a DX7 TX though.

Yes it will still tip stall with the LiPo. It doesn't seem to do it as often but if you are trying a banking turn at slow speed, especially to the left it will stall. I tried a few of these turns at a very high altitude and it did stall. I was high enough to recover though. My theory is that it is more pronounced on the left turns because of the direction of the motor. But that's just an uneducated guess.

I have no idea why I keep putting money in to the Swift. I think it's because I am very stubborn and refuse to give up. The Brushless upgrade has very definitely been a great improvement so i will keep taking it to the park.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/20/2008 1:20 AM

tam popo

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Swifty - nah, that heap of poo is relegated to the back of the hangar where it belongs!!! oh, it flew fine with the b/less and 1700 3S and would do mild aerobatics but then I disovered real planes like GWS, E-Flie, Thunder Tiger and home-brewed. I've driven more Jaguar cars than some people have seen in a lifetime (test driver/assesor for Jaguar) but I wouldn't buy one, I know too much now. You see, I'm really getting senile now!!

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/20/2008 1:53 AM

Swift427

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What ever happened to Ronrico418 and his infamous SWIFT after posting the following way back on 2/24

quote:

Hello again fellow Swift owners

The Comeback is Almost Here

Just spent a couple hours mocking up my Stryker C Brushless settup in my infamous SWIFT. Probably Re-Maiden in 2-3 weeks and will put up some pics on 1-2 days.

Ronrico 418 rog won't be a problem - Then again for me it never was.......muhahahaha Swift Darkside? I actually miss my swift and I've been busy flying at 120 mph with my Mega Stryker 3S 5000mah CC80Aesc Also picked up the new blade 400 heli. Now I have dx6i and dx7. Blade is really awesome now if I could just hover. Flying at high speeds is much more comfortable than hovering. Sorry off topic Talk to you guys soon Ronrico

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/20/2008 7:49 AM

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ZETA,

425 watts will turn your Swift into a rocket!!

That is WAY more power than you are going to need. There is a formula that some go by that states the following

50-70 Watts per 450g - Minimum for reasonable performance flight. Slow flyers and slow park flyers
70-90 Watts per 450g - Slow flying scale models, Trainers.
90-120 Watts per 450g - Sports aerobatic. Fast scale models.
120-150 Watts per 450g - Advanced aerobats. High Speed Models. Excellent Vertical performance
150+ Watts - Very High Speed, Unlimited Vertical Performance.

So with the amount of power you have - she will scream!!

Cheers
-J

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/20/2008 9:02 PM

Zeta30

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I took the Swift out again this time with the 6 x 4 prop. There really didn't seem to be any loss of power but this time after 8 minutes of flight I still had 11.4V left in the LiPo packs. For the most part I flew at 1/2 throttle and it was still very fast. If I gave it full throttle it still seemed to have unlimited vertical power. I was also able to fly inverted in a complete circle around my field.

This was the first time I would say that I actually enjoyed flying the Swift.

I now have a different problem though. At very high speeds the plane develops a major shake to it I would say it's more than a vibration. It's as if someone is holding the plane and shaking it up and down. Slow the plane down and this goes away.

I balanced the prop before flying it so it can't be that, plus the plane will shake if I do a very long dive with no power.

I can think of two possible causes.

1. I have had a lot of crashes with this and maybe the Fuselage is out of line somehow.

2. I have home made tail feathers that I made out of balsa. Maybe they aren't lined up perfectly

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/21/2008 1:26 AM

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ZETA,

If she is flying straight and direct at a slower speed then everything wold be lined up, and it would not be the fuse. I don't know how fast you say "fast" is, but it is possible that you are just going to fast for the airframe to handle. If you have changed the tail feathers, maybe they are getting too much 'wash' at high speed.

Do they flex more than the stock ones?

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/21/2008 2:10 AM

Zeta30

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I would say that at half throttle I am going a little faster than WOT on the stock set up. I can't really estimate MPH, But 1/2 throttle is about the same speed as WOT on my Parkzone Trojan T-28, which would probably mean noting to you unless you've flown one.

The tail feathers are much stiffer than the original ones. They are about 1 1/2 times as thick though.

I know the Swift wasn't really built to be a speedster. I can live with it for now.

The plane does track well. I can get it up and flying level with very minimal trim adjustment.

I have to say that I really love the sound of the motor when I do give it full throttle.

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