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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 10:04 PM   
Swift427



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Status: offline 		Step Four: Now comes the critical surgery that results in a major improvement in overall structural integrity. Afterall, a few more holes isn't always a negative. Hold the soldering iron at a 45 degree angle so the tip is tangent to the motor surface as it penetrates the plastic about 1/4 of an inch. I would not recommend that you keep pushing the tip in and out of the hole in order to keep it open. The tip will tend to draw some of the plastic back into the hole as you retract it. This is OK as it also forms a ridge around the hole that acts as reinforcement. So, even if the partial hole left by the soldering tip isn't large enough to accept the tie wrap don't despair as the main purpose of the soldering iron is to form a smooth ridge around the hole instead of a jagged edge which often happens with a drill. Use an exacto knife to make an opening just large enough within the formed hole to accept the tie wrap. When the tie wrap is inserted and snugged down the edge of my tie wrap just touched the tiny mold mark and did not cover it. In other words the opening for the tie wrap was such that it was not directly centered over the mold mark but ever so slightly toward the rear of the motor. This was done to make sure the tie wrap ran around the smaller diameter of the motor and DID NOT go around any part of the larger diameter. If done just right the tie wrap will run just behind, and close to the trailing edge of the larger shield diameter on the front half of the motor. However when the tie wrap is tightened it is so snug that the motor ain't gona budge whereever the cable tie runs around the rear portion of the motor.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/20/2007 3:39 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 10:15 PM   
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Status: offline 		Wow! That was intense. If I do crash and need the repair I know where to come to get it. How the hell did you figure that one out? But its handy. No chance of me needing it just yet, weather inclement at moment. Building, repairing, flight sim and designing quality time. Just bought F27b Stryker to supplement Swift, ME262 and Zagi. Swift dusted down for tomorrows snow showers etc. Thanks and TaTa as they say in Welsh. Dioch an vow (Welsh).

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 10:24 PM   
Swift427



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Status: offline 		Step Five: Bending the tip of the yellow cable tie wrap will make it easier to thread around the motor. You will still need to use the tweezer as a guide and probe to route the tie wrap around the motor getting it started into each slot opening. The first time I cinched the cable tie as tight as possible with the tightening tool until it broke (50lb test) to get a feel for how much strength to use before breaking the tie. Another thing--you need to have the tie head lock centered in the recessed cowl on the rib that houses the shim insert. If not the tightening tool may impinge/dent the cowling wall as you tighten down the tie wrap. The second time after tightening down the tie wrap I noticed one of the sandpaper shim inserts had slipped part way out as it was extending more than the normal 3/16" beyond the rear of the motor. It is critical that both shim inserts are tight against the trailing edge of the larger diameter metal shield. I used my inexpensive wire strippers to cut the tie wrap, but a nail trimmer is just fine. By the third time I was able to thread the tie wrap around the motor and tighten it down in less than a minute. Once you've secured the tie as tight as you dare go (without breaking) trim off the excess flush to the locking head with your nail trimmer. Then push/force/rotate the locking head of the tie wrap off of the higher center rib so its next to the cowling wall in a more recessed location for a neater presentation. Depending on how you insert the tie wrap the head of the tie will end up either at the top of the cowling or at the bottom. It makes a difference which way you run the tie around the motor if you want the tie head to be as snug as possible against the bottom wall of the cowling. It takes a fair amount of force to rotate the tie wrap after you have snugged it down which is what you want. If it rotates too easily then you might want to cut it off and do it again with more pressure applied on the tightening tool.

You have not only dramatically increased the structural integrity of the fuselage's rear motor support, but for all practical purposes completely eliminated the impact stress to the front motor mount from a head-on crash at full speed. So, the front motor mount plate now basically serves the purpose of precisely centering the motor shaft as there is a little wiggle room from left to right before the two motor mount screws are tighten.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/20/2007 3:41 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 11:20 PM   
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Status: offline 		In response to your simulator questions:

Was a newbie but now an old hat in less that 4 weeks And a few crashes of course.

Being an engineer I was skeptical of RC simulators. Oh sure, they look fun bit are they realistic? I spent the money and bought the FSone simulator (www.fsone.com).

I’m telling everyone out there who is new or thinking about getting into the RC flyers, PLEASE PLEASE buy this simulator first for their going price of $200. (i.e. I have no affiliation with them BTW). Why? You will spend more money on parts, time fixing, frustration, or even ruin your entry or mid level plane trying to fly on your own for the first time

Anyway….here is my review on the FSone simulator.

I loaded up the simulator on my PC. It is 4 CDs and takes about one hour to load, even on a dual core machine with 2GB 667MHz RAM. You MUST MUST have an NVIDIA 5000 series or ATI 9200 series graphics card or better. 128Mb minimum. It will not work without this kind of graphics power. I even tired an ATI rage with 128 MB and it would not run.

Once loaded, I plugged in the USB transmitter controller (no batteries required), ran the calibration and was ready to go. They have many planes you can buy on the market, not just generic planes (Hanger 9, Aerobird extreme, F27B Styker, gliders, E-flight helicopters, jets, etc). You can also choose the panoramic background to match where you fly. It is a real panoramic photograph, not computer animated. Airports, soccer fields, indoor backetball courts, etc. Following the plane is the same as you would see in the sky, like a camera tracking the plane and some autozoom if needed.

I started with the Aerobird Extreme. I practiced until the point I knew I had it right and turns were crisp with no stalls. The next day I went to the soccer field and tossed up my challenger (not part of the sim by the way) and thusly began my very first RC flight ever. I must say it felt as though I was sitting in front of my computer. Perfect flights, no crashes and the landings were all great. Turns were smooth and it looked like I had been doing it for a long time. The $200 spent on the simulator saved my plane and the frustration of repairing. The physics and dynamics were dead on.

So the next outing I had a few crashes and wondered why? I had gotten so good, right? Nope…stupid gusty wind. So ahh haa! I added in 16 and 20 mph gusty winds on the simulator, for here in Austin TX we have had some windy days lately. I see where I was making my mistakes and not turning into or away from the wind properly. Practiced on the simulator and now I have no problems flying in the wind. Problem solved. The FSone’s aerobird extreme and challenger fly so much alike that you should be fine if you only have the challenger.

I tried the RealFlight simulator at the local hobby shop. It isn’t bad but it does not give the realism that I found to be on the FSone. Not even close in my opinion.

Take it from me, a true skeptic, this simulator saved me lots of money and is about as close as you can get to the real thing. See if a buddy can split the cost with you. I’ve already loaned mine out to 3 of mine and they are impressed.

Hope this helps

John (JC)



< Message edited by johnpcunningham -- 3/19/2007 11:21 PM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 11:57 PM   
Swift427



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Status: offline 		Wish you were my next door neighbor My next more expensive plane will likely be a 4-channel hybrid that I design and construct from parts, but that's 2-3 years away. Maybe, something like the Swift only with a ruddevator, but hard to tell what knewer extended battery technology, etc., etc. will be on the market by then. But it is always tempting to try to come up with something a little different that you can call your own that you have to learn to fly by trial and error. Half the fun maybe.

A salesman that works at the hobby store where I bought my plane and is the local guru on all kinds of model planes is going to give me a couple flying lessons with his new Swift before I attempt my first solo. One person told me it may be possible to make a buddy box if I invest in another identical TX. However, the salesperson who is going to give me a couple lessons sounded like it wasn't easy/possible to build a buddy box system for a Swift TX. I would think with a little electronic wiring and/or disabling a person could make a buddy box for a Swift TX that has the same frequency--in my case Channel 2 27.045.

Do you know of any web thread/link that would be helpful in building a HZ Swift buddy box? If I called HZ do you think a tech rep might be willing to offer/send instructions for building a Swift TX buddy box system?

Another question I have is it possible for two identical Channel 2 27.045 to be used at the same time by two people for training or does that completely confuse the control board? If only one person has an identical TX turned on at any one time I would think it would be OK,but there may be a 5 second delay when switching between identical TXs. So, for example if a student was learning and they weren't comfortable coming in for a landing or they lost control and went into a dive they could turn off their TX right away and then the teacher could land the plane and/or try to save it from crashing or at least soften the impact with some kind of a buddy box system.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/20/2007 3:46 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/20/2007 12:06 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hiya John. Im a cheapskate guy (the wife tells me!), so I boutht the Realityflight sim (I think you have it over there), £20 here. definately not as good as yours (seen yours in LHS promo day). Mine has only 10 planes as standard abd backgrounds are . pc generated. Difference between Joan Rivers and Jen Lopez - both have all the bits in right place but which one do you prefer! What both teach you is reverse control with aerlorons nd wid conditions. I don't and never will have problems with wind (no jokes, please). I'm an ex-pro windsurfer and extreme sailsports coach so I can always tell where and how strong the wind is (second nature). Some people don't know there are 2 types of wind - real and apparent. Real wind is what moves trees, grass etc and you feel it on your face and can see the results on surrounding features. Apparent wind i created by speed EG: there is no wind but whe you put your hand out window of car you feel wind or airlfow. This should not affect average joe flyer but affects control surfaces - lft and negative lift. Getting too technical now but get my drift? Just another slant on this wonderful hobby of ours, flight sim or no flight sim. A tool to be used. Going flying tomorrow, prepping to do now! TaTa (Welsh)

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/20/2007 1:19 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hi again, my 2 cents (or 2p worth), enjoy your first maiden for what it is, go with the flow and as Bob Marley said "don't worry, fly happy". Buddy boxes are great as is club tuition or even a pal who can fly. But one day there will be no-one there just as you do the best roll in the world. Thats life. You might make a mistake, but reading your mails your an intelligent man who will take it easy the first time. A 6ft high hop aloft is better than nothing! Enjoy.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/21/2007 3:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		In theory I think you could do a two controller deal but the problem would come in with the "newbie" making sure to turn his off while the old pro turned his on. If you are close to the ground, there won't be enough time for this. The default controllers on these aerobirds do not have a trainer port.

My buddy Dan is an EE as well. I took the challenger and got it way up in the air (200ft) and then gave him the controller. I watched the plane and him and when he started messing up (within 10 seconds) I simply pulled the controller out of his hands and recovered the plane. That seems to work the best. After the 2nd and 3rd time doing this, I pretty much told him he sucked and to try the simulator (BTW, he did crash the plane). Yea, a skeptic he was, but he did. Called me later to say that he was impressed, and the next flight we had, he seemed to be an old pro after practicing on the sim. Now I've got somone I can dogfight with and we both can away from the sweethearts on the weekend to have some "dudes only" fun. Ergo, the simulator has a "double" positive effect

JC

< Message edited by johnpcunningham -- 3/21/2007 4:03 PM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/21/2007 11:20 PM   
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Status: offline 		I decided to spend the money on another HZ plane (Challenger) and a really good battery charger instead of investing $200 in a good FSone simulator.

Note: The following is NOT recommended as it would void any HZ warranty)

I'm going to attempt to make a Buddy Box System tonight for the elevator and rudder (or airelon) toggle which seems like the two most essential for a child or newbie beginner to master while the more experienced flyer always handles the throttle. I bought a Challenger today as I'm thinking I would prefer going though the dumb mistake crashing curve with it instead of with my Swift. So when either my Challenger and Swift TX is used as a buddy box it wouldn't be turned or need batteries for the two pots to still function/affect/operate the same 2 channels on the live TX as its two pots would be disabled whenever the two pots on the buddy box are On (and vica versa) with the use of a DPDT?(not sure yet) toggle switch. I'm also curious to see how one affects the control circuitry of the other and vica versa when both TXs are live as I purposely purchased the Challenger with same frequency as my Swift. But curiosity can be expensive and I expect that having two TXs with identical frequency on at the same time is NOT a very bright idea .

For my particular flying scenario I don't envision my son, grandson or myself ever wanting to fly both the Challenger and Swift at same time with both TXs live. More likely the Stryker with either the Challenger or Swift. And HZ will have another plane we'll be more interested in buying in a couple years.

The idea is that the elevator and rudder(or airelon) Joy Stick in the Buddy Box (which could be either TX depending on whether its the Swift or Challenger that is flying) will be operational in the field. I'm guessing the middle ground wire on the pots will be the one wired into the On/Off switch on each TX so either one could be used by the instructor. The student TX could always have his switch on and then the instructor would be in control of turning his TX toggle back on with his On/Off switch(DPDT?) at the same time disabling the buddy box for any flight path correction. I assuming that the center ground connections on both pots is a common ground.

I'm using two interconnectiing cables (using 6' stereo cable with 1/8" plug) plugged into two flush panel mount stereo jacks (possible on the bottom side of each TX). The On/Off switch will be in a convenient location for quick access, but not located where it could be accidently bumped. I hoping a 6' length of stereo cable will not have an adverse affect on the two predetermined trim adjustments or cause a control board malfunction.

I've done a lot of web surfing since I bought my Swift to see what else is on the market. I just learned about the BeginAir and a few others, but I still think the Swift (which is replacing the Xtreme) is one sweet machine as is the Challenger. Now I can going flying with my grandson or change off from one plane to the other to gain more overall flying experience. I really like the glider wing on these planes for learning about flying/gliding with thermals later this summer.

Originally, I was planning on getting another Swift for my Son for his upcoming birthday, but decided to get him ParkZone's new Stryker C with the brushless motor (it goes 80mph). So, now we(more like my son) can have fun with our combat modules. While my lazy day Swift or Challenger is rising on thermals my Son can sharpen his combat skills by zooming around taking potshots at me. I can hardly wait to see my son's jaw drop and his excitement when he opens his birday present.

After looking at all the planes on the market (and there are a ton of them) I believe HobbyZone offers the best variety and quality of RTF product for the money.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/22/2007 12:01 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/22/2007 1:46 AM   
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Status: offline 		Nothing wrong with trying the b/box, might even work well. If your son is new to flying the f27c might be too intense. Its blisteringly fast(too fast?) for a newbie, plus its LiPO. Iv'e just bought a f27b (NiCad) cos I don't want to do 80mph just yet (I don't do it in my car!) and am wary of the LiPo constraints. Master the swift and challenger first then think about f27b then upgrade to f27c. If you struggle with swift then you're doomed, doomed I tell you! When my swift is resting I fly a Zagi (480 motor, NiCad) and ME262 animal (twin 480 foam pusher prop). I love the swift for the way it handles a stiff breeze and its predictable - the others are a handful. Anyway, got to repair swift now, the wires came adrift this morning from battery lead. Byee!!!
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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/23/2007 6:14 PM   
Swift427



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Status: offline 		I hear you loud and clear across the big pond. We'll begin our HZ flying by learning with the Challenger work up to the Swift and then by this summer have access to a private field that flys combat Wednesday nights for some Stryker flying.

So far so good with initial buddy box test as both Challenger TX and Swift TX use identical pots for servos. I invested in another Swift TX for some more buddy box experimenting so now I'll have an extra TX circuit board as you just disconnect the the servo/pot 6-pin connector and the two 2-pin connectors from the circuit board. I installed a mini 4PDT On-On mounted on the top of the Challenger TX just to the right of the antennae. Mounted two mini 3PDT on the Swift TX below the trim control as the Challenger only uses 2 of the 3 pot connections as it doesn't offer a low rate and high rate servo control. This allows independent control of either elevator or airelons for grandson(or grandpa) or both controls active on buddy box as we progress. Installed two 1/8" stereo jacks on bottom side for when Swift TX is used by instructor and Challenger TX is buddy box. Installed two RCA phono jacks beside 1/8" jacks for application when Challenger TX is used by instructor and Swift TX is the buddy box. Actually either TX can be live or the buddy box depending on which one has so the little guy can control just the throttle for practice on takeoff, flare landing or more advanced aerobatic maneuvers. So in this application when throttle control is used for learning flight maneuvers the servo controls can be turned off and operated by the one instructing using the buddy box. Only one TX has batteries at any one time when using a buddy box, but both can still function nornally by themself or as a buddy box. This dual function also allows the beginner to pretend to operate the throttle or the servos depending on which TX is powered.

Only time will tell whether all this additional expense, time and very meticulous effort (need a magnifier lamp) was worth the trouble. The plan/idea is that this buddy box system will allow/encourage my little grandson to learn the basics of flying at a younger age with less frustration. And when there is a crash the instructor can always take as much blame as neccesary so that the little guy doesn't feel so bad or get too easily discouraged.



< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/23/2007 6:22 PM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/23/2007 8:36 PM   
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Status: offline 		You should patent that! I feel a business opportunity coming on. I think you've sussed out the right pathway and don't be afraid to ask the combat guys questions, it's amazing how flyers want to exchange views, knowledge and learn. Isn't that why we share e-mails etc. Byee for now, got to repair swift again (need new tail, bad landing).

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/4/2007 1:31 AM   
Swift427



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Status: offline 		The buddy box I made was an interesting challenge that works, but isn't all that practical with cables running between boxes. It does work OK by allowing a newbie to only concentrate on controlling just the V-elevator and V-rudder or switch TXs and control just the throttle. The less a little guy or newbie has to concentrate on(rudder, elevator, aileron, throttle) reduces the learning curve level of frustration--fewer crashes. The advantage of this buddy box system is that it can be used with the Challenger or Swift as long as both birds have same channel frequency. It will definitely get a workout.

Having just one TX that the more experienced flyer can quickly grab away from the student has its advantages, but it is kind of demoralizing to have it grabbed out of a beginners hands--even if it prevents a crash. A good buddy box would be useful for aileron training. However, the Swift and its replacement parts aren't that expensive compared to a thousand $ model airplane.

I wish the Swift had been designed as an aileron trainer with only half its present aileron surface area. I don't need a "swift" aileron motorized glider for quick aerobatic maneuvers that can evade a Stryker. If the Swift had 1/2 of its current aileron surface it would still be swift enough and elusive enough to out-maneuver any attack by a Challenger in Sport-Mode or Pro-Mode.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 4/7/2007 1:12 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/8/2007 3:47 AM   
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Status: offline 		Aerobird Swift Brushless

I have found the stock 480 motor is just not enough for the SWIFT. I did my own elevtronic conversion in the Challenger to go bushless and decided to put it in the SWIFT. What I found and guessed correctly is that the headers on the SWIFT electronics correspond to a standard RX receiver. The first header will interface directly to a bushless ESC. The other two are obviously for the aeilerons and the elevator.

I used the bushelss set up off of the F-27C stryker. Make sure to use a motor that is for a direct drive and that the ESC is around 35-40 amps.

If you want to go bushless, give it a try. I think you will be pleased wht the perfomrnace enhancement. LiPos really make it perform as compared to the NiHh.

Regards,

JC

< Message edited by johnpcunningham -- 4/9/2007 6:32 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/8/2007 7:45 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hi John, long time no speak. How are you? When you mention headers wot do they physically look like. Is a typing mistake but did you mean ESC - did you put a new esc in or use the old one of the swift. Motor: can type or outrunner. I prefer outrunner but mounting is always a problem on some models (possibly swift) so I'll probably go in-runner can type. Nimh: trying 10.4v 1000Mah on swift, a bit OTT but maybe worth it. Don't want to go LiPo yet on any of my planes. Any info would be good, thanks.
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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/9/2007 6:46 AM   
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Status: offline 		Tam,

Yea, I means ESC

If you look at the RX electronics on the SWIFT, you will see the row of headers - 3 pins connectors that go from top to bottom. Position 2 and 3 are currently used by the aeilerons and the elevator servos. You can still use the same RX electronics and Transmitter - simply take the ESC 3 pin connector and put it in position 1 on the header. Make sure the grounds all line up. Usually pin 1 is GND but look at the others where the black wire goes on the 3 pins. All of the ground pins are in a column so it is easy to follow:

G = ground, P = power, C is control signal
G P C
. . . motor
. . . Aeilerons
. . . elevator
. . . open
. . . open
. . .opem

Once you have the ESC connected, do a test to make sure the motor turns properly. After that, put on the prop and test again. If the prop moves in the wrong direction, simply swap the outside wires of the motor going to the ESC and that should reverse the motor.

I used an E-Flight SIX series motor that is the same physical size as the 480 brushless. I don't think an outrunner will work since the body spins. It is the same size as the original 480 motor that I removed and has the same mounting holes. I used the 40 amp E-Flight ESC and used double sided tape to stick it above and inside behind the canopy.

Also, you have to solder the power wires of the ESC to the circuit board. I simply solderded them on where the power connectors are solderded. You can leave the wires going to the original brushed mototr in place if you wish.

All in all, the SWIFT is NOW fun to fly whereas before I thought it was underpowered during takeoff. Now it just goes vertical, even with a 7.2V battery. I run mostly 8.4V & 9,6V NiMH. I leave the LiPOs for the Stryker and Mustang, but I am here to tell you that the LIPOs easily outperfomr the NiMH batteries. They can simply provide more current and the motor can run faster. Sinve the SWIFT is still a V-tail, teh NiMh give better handling because not as much air is being blown over the elevator. It is more stable in the air with NiHM because of this

Hope this helps,

JC



< Message edited by johnpcunningham -- 4/9/2007 6:50 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/9/2007 8:18 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks for that John! Still questions: How do you access circuit board and pins. I undo screws in bottom of fuse and pull white plast tray with board towards front of plane, but this doesn't give full access. Is there another way? What props are you using, I have trouble sourcing a decent prop, been told challenger is best but can't get them from LHS's. Will go to prop adapter and APC asap. Tried the 10.4V pack - wot a difference! The motor change would be awesome. Starting to finish ME262 with twin 480 brushed and need an esc and I now have decent wiring diagram for motors, esc etc. Motors identical to swift. Got to tinker, see you later.
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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/11/2007 7:20 AM   
johnpcunningham



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Status: offline 		To get to the circuit boaard, remove the 4 screws on the bottom, remove the screws to the motor, and disconnect the elevator rods going to the tail. There is a plastic piece with a 5 inch rod that is on the single rod near the elevator. Sort of a Y splitter for the elevator controls. This pulls off with a slight amount of force. No need to glue when you put it back on. You will need to remove this so that you can pull the elctronics completely out of the body. THen disconnect the rod from the servo arm.
'
Once you have done this, you shoulod be good to go. The motor should have butt connectors so it is easy to disconnect from the RX. When you solder in the ESC PWR and GND connections, make sure to solder where the power connector goes and not where the motor is connected.

I used the prop for the Stryker C. Cheap and available and no mods needed. The bushless has a 1/8 shaft and most motors come with a standard prop adapter. The original prop that came with the SWIFT wont fit on the brushless shaft prop hole to small) so you need the other prop from the F27 or equivalent.

If you have any more questions let me know.

JC

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/12/2007 12:03 AM   
Swift427



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Status: offline 		If you've got Xtra money to spend on a $74.99 E-Flight Six Series Motor and $54.99 on an E-Flight 40-amp Brushless ESC then a 6x4 prop is the perfect match whether using a 8.4v 1000mAh battery or a 3-cell Li-Poly. You would only use a larger prop like a 6.8x3.8 if you were going to consider using a larger motor, like the direct drive Graupner Speed GR1799 500 7.2v motor that costs $15.90 as oppposed to spending $120.98. I'm also giving the link for their GR6304L 480 motor for $28.90 so you can checkout its specs.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/speed480.htm
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/speed500.htm

The direct drive Graupner Speed GR6304L 480 7.2v brushed motor is 1.146"x1.875"(same size as Swift motor) with a weight of 3.53 oz. and a 3.2mm(1/8 inch) diameter shaft. It is a reverse rotation pusher motor priced at $28.90. Fitted with a 6x4 prop and operating at 8.4 volts it has a rated load rpm of 11.8k(free rpm 20.5k) provides 10 oz. of thrust(80 watts/10 amps). This Graupner motor is recommended for fast planes up to 18 oz. using a 6x4 prop which is the same size on the Swift. Both the Swift and the Stryker F-27C have a flying weight of 22 oz. Herein lies the problem as the Swift's flying weight and aerodynamics is a challenge for the 480 motor that comes in the Swift.

The direct drive Graupner Speed GR1799 500 7.2v motor is about 1.375"x2.250" with a weight of 5.71 oz. and a 3.2mm(1/8 inch) diameter shaft. It is neutral timed for either left or right rotation(can be used for a pusher prop). It is recommended for planes up to 40 oz. Fitted with an 8x4.5 prop operating at 8.4v it has a load rpm of 8.6k(free rpm 19.7k) providing 15 oz. of thrust(163 watts/19 amps). Using a 6.8x3.8 smaller prop would reduce power consumption and thrust, but still an improvement for only $15.90.

The fuselage of the Swift can be adapted to accept this Graupner 500 motor. I'm not interested in racing or fancy aerobatic/combat maneuvers, but rather just a little more power for climbing and flying in 10-12 mph winds. Can't think of a reason why the Graupner 500 BR1799 wouldn't be an acceptable solution. Using the 8.4v 1000mAh may only give me 8 minutes of flying time, but I've come to realize that 5-8 minutes is long enough for one flight. Then rest awhile, put in another battery and fly again.

I'm also going to adapt/fit the larger Xtreme V-tail onto my Yellow Buzzard.



< Message edited by Swift427 -- 4/12/2007 12:27 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/12/2007 1:02 AM   
tam popo


 

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Status: offline 		Wow, you've done your research! I wil never buy a brushed motor again, as the price of b/less comes down and the power output is phenominal compared to brushed. One example: My zagi runs a 480 brushed as stock (same as swift) and flew well on 8.4V 1000/1300 NaH NimH, but it didn't set the sky on fire. Climb rate was as good as my pension rights, they go up but not as fast or as much as I would like!1 . Now with Tower Pro b/less and ame battery pack it pushes out 30oz of thrust using an APC 8x4 prop. Billiant. Wot a differnce. I know this is a swift thread but the change will happen to a b/less can inrunner (for convenince). With this motor I won't have to change to LiPo and get a "new" plane all at a moderate cost and easy installation using my arsenal of NiMh packs. Repaired Stryker (again) flying tomorrow (again). Gawd, its a hard life

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/12/2007 2:01 AM   
Swift427



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Status: offline 		Never say "Never!"
Sorry, but I have to agree with Ed that HZ planes aren't the quality of a more "pro-like plane" from PZ. It will be a while before brushless motors are standard on HZ planes. Doesn't make sense to invest that much money into a HZ plane.

Now that I'll have a spare 480 engine from the Swift I'll have to make room for it in the Challenger. Now that will definitely make for a swifter bird and allow for flying it in 10-12 mph winds.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 4/12/2007 2:02 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/12/2007 10:21 AM   
tam popo


 

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Status: offline 		Hiya! i think its b/less with g/box in the new (to UK) parkzone Typhoon 3D - this plane gets great unbiased reviews. But this one is definately one for experienced flyer. I want one but I know my limitations - I couldn't get the swift to do the aerobatic business but I've just done my first deliberate loop and short inverted roll - even surprised myself with Stryker. Don't laugh but I was once a pro windsurfer and I realised why I was pro and winning races - it all comes down to the amount of time spent on the water. The rule applies to flying, any airtime is better than none or minimal.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/12/2007 9:27 PM   
Swift427



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Status: offline 		Take a look again at the nifty-swift ground launch video by ronrico418 on page 3. Yet, rawiswar said he found hand launching the Swift to be "really hard" having to throw it as hard as he could to launch successfully. What do you make of this? Did ronrico418 just happen to get a better performing 480 can motor in his Swift and rawiswar a dud? Because this was a new plane I'm assuming that in early February ronrico418 was using the standard battery and prop that come with the RTF Swift.

I find it interesting that the Challenger with its smaller 380 motor and battery uses a 6.5x3 prop with more surface area and less pitch(more muscle for launching than the Swift's 6x4 prop) having a Prop Load Factor of 824. The Swift motor uses a 6x4 speed prop having a PLF of 864(less than a 5% increase in PLF from that of the Challenger) .

It seems that a better pusher prop for the heavier Swift with its more powerful 480 motor would have been a larger(e.g. 6.8x3.5), stiffer APC muscle prop resulting in a PLF of 1,100(a 25% increase in PLF from the Challenger's PLF). The Swift should have come with a larger prop and a bigger motor, more the likes of the Graupner Speed 500 which would have given the Swift a 25% increase in PLF over the Challenger's motor/prop PLF. In other words HZ outfitted the Swift with a motor and prop as if it were a Stryker F-27B. Granted the Swift 480 motor/battery/speed prop offers a higher load rpm compared to the Challenger 380 motor/battery/muscle prop, but it still isn't anywhere near enough of an increase in PLF for ease of launching or really give it that much of a speed advantage considering the Swift's aerodynamic design(power envelope).





< Message edited by Swift427 -- 4/12/2007 10:11 PM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/12/2007 9:52 PM   
tam popo


 

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Status: offline 		I had the same problems as Riswar but these were exacerbated by a "dicky" shoulder. Overcame this but the plane still reluctant to ROG - it will do it but needs plenty of run-up. I think all the 480's are the same output,new or run-in. Did Ronrico use stock battery or LiPo - if you read this Ronrio getin touch and tell us your secret Oh Wise One. Going to LHS tomorrow to get advice and buy various new props to try with new adapter. Kepp you posted.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 4/12/2007 10:53 PM   
Swift427



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Status: offline 		...deleted reply

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 4/13/2007 5:29 PM >

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