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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 10:04:46 PM   
Swift427



Posts: 485
Joined: 3/15/2007
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Step Four: Now comes the critical surgery that results in a major improvement in overall structural integrity. Afterall, a few more holes isn't always a negative. Hold the soldering iron at a 45 degree angle so the tip is tangent to the motor surface as it penetrates the plastic about 1/4 of an inch. I would not recommend that you keep pushing the tip in and out of the hole in order to keep it open. The tip will tend to draw some of the plastic back into the hole as you retract it. This is OK as it also forms a ridge around the hole that acts as reinforcement. So, even if the partial hole left by the soldering tip isn't large enough to accept the tie wrap don't despair as the main purpose of the soldering iron is to form a smooth ridge around the hole instead of a jagged edge which often happens with a drill. Use an exacto knife to make an opening just large enough within the formed hole to accept the tie wrap. When the tie wrap is inserted and snugged down the edge of my tie wrap just touched the tiny mold mark and did not cover it. In other words the opening for the tie wrap was such that it was not directly centered over the mold mark but ever so slightly toward the rear of the motor. This was done to make sure the tie wrap ran around the smaller diameter of the motor and DID NOT go around any part of the larger diameter. If done just right the tie wrap will run just behind, and close to the trailing edge of the larger shield diameter on the front half of the motor. However when the tie wrap is tightened it is so snug that the motor ain't gona budge whereever the cable tie runs around the rear portion of the motor.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/20/2007 3:39:30 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 10:15:07 PM   
tam popo


 

Posts: 3105
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: glasgow, , UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Wow! That was intense. If I do crash and need the repair I know where to come to get it. How the hell did you figure that one out? But its handy. No chance of me needing it just yet, weather inclement at moment. Building, repairing, flight sim and designing quality time. Just bought F27b Stryker to supplement Swift, ME262 and Zagi. Swift dusted down for tomorrows snow showers etc. Thanks and TaTa as they say in Welsh. Dioch an vow (Welsh).

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 10:24:28 PM   
Swift427



Posts: 485
Joined: 3/15/2007
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Step Five: Bending the tip of the yellow cable tie wrap will make it easier to thread around the motor. You will still need to use the tweezer as a guide and probe to route the tie wrap around the motor getting it started into each slot opening. The first time I cinched the cable tie as tight as possible with the tightening tool until it broke (50lb test) to get a feel for how much strength to use before breaking the tie. Another thing--you need to have the tie head lock centered in the recessed cowl on the rib that houses the shim insert. If not the tightening tool may impinge/dent the cowling wall as you tighten down the tie wrap. The second time after tightening down the tie wrap I noticed one of the sandpaper shim inserts had slipped part way out as it was extending more than the normal 3/16" beyond the rear of the motor. It is critical that both shim inserts are tight against the trailing edge of the larger diameter metal shield. I used my inexpensive wire strippers to cut the tie wrap, but a nail trimmer is just fine. By the third time I was able to thread the tie wrap around the motor and tighten it down in less than a minute. Once you've secured the tie as tight as you dare go (without breaking) trim off the excess flush to the locking head with your nail trimmer. Then push/force/rotate the locking head of the tie wrap off of the higher center rib so its next to the cowling wall in a more recessed location for a neater presentation. Depending on how you insert the tie wrap the head of the tie will end up either at the top of the cowling or at the bottom. It makes a difference which way you run the tie around the motor if you want the tie head to be as snug as possible against the bottom wall of the cowling. It takes a fair amount of force to rotate the tie wrap after you have snugged it down which is what you want. If it rotates too easily then you might want to cut it off and do it again with more pressure applied on the tightening tool.

You have not only dramatically increased the structural integrity of the fuselage's rear motor support, but for all practical purposes completely eliminated the impact stress to the front motor mount from a head-on crash at full speed. So, the front motor mount plate now basically serves the purpose of precisely centering the motor shaft as there is a little wiggle room from left to right before the two motor mount screws are tighten.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/20/2007 3:41:32 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 11:20:30 PM   
johnpcunningham



Posts: 238
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		In response to your simulator questions:

Was a newbie but now an old hat in less that 4 weeks And a few crashes of course.

Being an engineer I was skeptical of RC simulators. Oh sure, they look fun bit are they realistic? I spent the money and bought the FSone simulator (www.fsone.com).

I’m telling everyone out there who is new or thinking about getting into the RC flyers, PLEASE PLEASE buy this simulator first for their going price of $200. (i.e. I have no affiliation with them BTW). Why? You will spend more money on parts, time fixing, frustration, or even ruin your entry or mid level plane trying to fly on your own for the first time

Anyway….here is my review on the FSone simulator.

I loaded up the simulator on my PC. It is 4 CDs and takes about one hour to load, even on a dual core machine with 2GB 667MHz RAM. You MUST MUST have an NVIDIA 5000 series or ATI 9200 series graphics card or better. 128Mb minimum. It will not work without this kind of graphics power. I even tired an ATI rage with 128 MB and it would not run.

Once loaded, I plugged in the USB transmitter controller (no batteries required), ran the calibration and was ready to go. They have many planes you can buy on the market, not just generic planes (Hanger 9, Aerobird extreme, F27B Styker, gliders, E-flight helicopters, jets, etc). You can also choose the panoramic background to match where you fly. It is a real panoramic photograph, not computer animated. Airports, soccer fields, indoor backetball courts, etc. Following the plane is the same as you would see in the sky, like a camera tracking the plane and some autozoom if needed.

I started with the Aerobird Extreme. I practiced until the point I knew I had it right and turns were crisp with no stalls. The next day I went to the soccer field and tossed up my challenger (not part of the sim by the way) and thusly began my very first RC flight ever. I must say it felt as though I was sitting in front of my computer. Perfect flights, no crashes and the landings were all great. Turns were smooth and it looked like I had been doing it for a long time. The $200 spent on the simulator saved my plane and the frustration of repairing. The physics and dynamics were dead on.

So the next outing I had a few crashes and wondered why? I had gotten so good, right? Nope…stupid gusty wind. So ahh haa! I added in 16 and 20 mph gusty winds on the simulator, for here in Austin TX we have had some windy days lately. I see where I was making my mistakes and not turning into or away from the wind properly. Practiced on the simulator and now I have no problems flying in the wind. Problem solved. The FSone’s aerobird extreme and challenger fly so much alike that you should be fine if you only have the challenger.

I tried the RealFlight simulator at the local hobby shop. It isn’t bad but it does not give the realism that I found to be on the FSone. Not even close in my opinion.

Take it from me, a true skeptic, this simulator saved me lots of money and is about as close as you can get to the real thing. See if a buddy can split the cost with you. I’ve already loaned mine out to 3 of mine and they are impressed.

Hope this helps

John (JC)



< Message edited by johnpcunningham -- 3/19/2007 11:21:13 PM >

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       Post #: 129

RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/19/2007 11:57:56 PM   
Swift427



Posts: 485
Joined: 3/15/2007
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Wish you were my next door neighbor My next more expensive plane will likely be a 4-channel hybrid that I design and construct from parts, but that's 2-3 years away. Maybe, something like the Swift only with a ruddevator, but hard to tell what knewer extended battery technology, etc., etc. will be on the market by then. But it is always tempting to try to come up with something a little different that you can call your own that you have to learn to fly by trial and error. Half the fun maybe.

A salesman that works at the hobby store where I bought my plane and is the local guru on all kinds of model planes is going to give me a couple flying lessons with his new Swift before I attempt my first solo. One person told me it may be possible to make a buddy box if I invest in another identical TX. However, the salesperson who is going to give me a couple lessons sounded like it wasn't easy/possible to build a buddy box system for a Swift TX. I would think with a little electronic wiring and/or disabling a person could make a buddy box for a Swift TX that has the same frequency--in my case Channel 2 27.045.

Do you know of any web thread/link that would be helpful in building a HZ Swift buddy box? If I called HZ do you think a tech rep might be willing to offer/send instructions for building a Swift TX buddy box system?

Another question I have is it possible for two identical Channel 2 27.045 to be used at the same time by two people for training or does that completely confuse the control board? If only one person has an identical TX turned on at any one time I would think it would be OK,but there may be a 5 second delay when switching between identical TXs. So, for example if a student was learning and they weren't comfortable coming in for a landing or they lost control and went into a dive they could turn off their TX right away and then the teacher could land the plane and/or try to save it from crashing or at least soften the impact with some kind of a buddy box system.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/20/2007 3:46:17 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/20/2007 12:06:29 AM   
tam popo


 

Posts: 3105
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: glasgow, , UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hiya John. Im a cheapskate guy (the wife tells me!), so I boutht the Realityflight sim (I think you have it over there), £20 here. definately not as good as yours (seen yours in LHS promo day). Mine has only 10 planes as standard abd backgrounds are . pc generated. Difference between Joan Rivers and Jen Lopez - both have all the bits in right place but which one do you prefer! What both teach you is reverse control with aerlorons nd wid conditions. I don't and never will have problems with wind (no jokes, please). I'm an ex-pro windsurfer and extreme sailsports coach so I can always tell where and how strong the wind is (second nature). Some people don't know there are 2 types of wind - real and apparent. Real wind is what moves trees, grass etc and you feel it on your face and can see the results on surrounding features. Apparent wind i created by speed EG: there is no wind but whe you put your hand out window of car you feel wind or airlfow. This should not affect average joe flyer but affects control surfaces - lft and negative lift. Getting too technical now but get my drift? Just another slant on this wonderful hobby of ours, flight sim or no flight sim. A tool to be used. Going flying tomorrow, prepping to do now! TaTa (Welsh)

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/20/2007 1:19:48 AM   
tam popo


 

Posts: 3105
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: glasgow, , UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi again, my 2 cents (or 2p worth), enjoy your first maiden for what it is, go with the flow and as Bob Marley said "don't worry, fly happy". Buddy boxes are great as is club tuition or even a pal who can fly. But one day there will be no-one there just as you do the best roll in the world. Thats life. You might make a mistake, but reading your mails your an intelligent man who will take it easy the first time. A 6ft high hop aloft is better than nothing! Enjoy.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/21/2007 3:55:07 PM   
johnpcunningham



Posts: 238
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		In theory I think you could do a two controller deal but the problem would come in with the "newbie" making sure to turn his off while the old pro turned his on. If you are close to the ground, there won't be enough time for this. The default controllers on these aerobirds do not have a trainer port.

My buddy Dan is an EE as well. I took the challenger and got it way up in the air (200ft) and then gave him the controller. I watched the plane and him and when he started messing up (within 10 seconds) I simply pulled the controller out of his hands and recovered the plane. That seems to work the best. After the 2nd and 3rd time doing this, I pretty much told him he sucked and to try the simulator (BTW, he did crash the plane). Yea, a skeptic he was, but he did. Called me later to say that he was impressed, and the next flight we had, he seemed to be an old pro after practicing on the sim. Now I've got somone I can dogfight with and we both can away from the sweethearts on the weekend to have some "dudes only" fun. Ergo, the simulator has a "double" positive effect

JC

< Message edited by johnpcunningham -- 3/21/2007 4:03:56 PM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/21/2007 11:20:10 PM   
Swift427



Posts: 485
Joined: 3/15/2007
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I decided to spend the money on another HZ plane (Challenger) and a really good battery charger instead of investing $200 in a good FSone simulator.

Note: The following is NOT recommended as it would void any HZ warranty)

I'm going to attempt to make a Buddy Box System tonight for the elevator and rudder (or airelon) toggle which seems like the two most essential for a child or newbie beginner to master while the more experienced flyer always handles the throttle. I bought a Challenger today as I'm thinking I would prefer going though the dumb mistake crashing curve with it instead of with my Swift. So when either my Challenger and Swift TX is used as a buddy box it wouldn't be turned or need batteries for the two pots to still function/affect/operate the same 2 channels on the live TX as its two pots would be disabled whenever the two pots on the buddy box are On (and vica versa) with the use of a DPDT?(not sure yet) toggle switch. I'm also curious to see how one affects the control circuitry of the other and vica versa when both TXs are live as I purposely purchased the Challenger with same frequency as my Swift. But curiosity can be expensive and I expect that having two TXs with identical frequency on at the same time is NOT a very bright idea .

For my particular flying scenario I don't envision my son, grandson or myself ever wanting to fly both the Challenger and Swift at same time with both TXs live. More likely the Stryker with either the Challenger or Swift. And HZ will have another plane we'll be more interested in buying in a couple years.

The idea is that the elevator and rudder(or airelon) Joy Stick in the Buddy Box (which could be either TX depending on whether its the Swift or Challenger that is flying) will be operational in the field. I'm guessing the middle ground wire on the pots will be the one wired into the On/Off switch on each TX so either one could be used by the instructor. The student TX could always have his switch on and then the instructor would be in control of turning his TX toggle back on with his On/Off switch(DPDT?) at the same time disabling the buddy box for any flight path correction. I assuming that the center ground connections on both pots is a common ground.

I'm using two interconnectiing cables (using 6' stereo cable with 1/8" plug) plugged into two flush panel mount stereo jacks (possible on the bottom side of each TX). The On/Off switch will be in a convenient location for quick access, but not located where it could be accidently bumped. I hoping a 6' length of stereo cable will not have an adverse affect on the two predetermined trim adjustments or cause a control board malfunction.

I've done a lot of web surfing since I bought my Swift to see what else is on the market. I just learned about the BeginAir and a few others, but I still think the Swift (which is replacing the Xtreme) is one sweet machine as is the Challenger. Now I can going flying with my grandson or change off from one plane to the other to gain more overall flying experience. I really like the glider wing on these planes for learning about flying/gliding with thermals later this summer.

Originally, I was planning on getting another Swift for my Son for his upcoming birthday, but decided to get him ParkZone's new Stryker C with the brushless motor (it goes 80mph). So, now we(more like my son) can have fun with our combat modules. While my lazy day Swift or Challenger is rising on thermals my Son can sharpen his combat skills by zooming around taking potshots at me. I can hardly wait to see my son's jaw drop and his excitement when he opens his birday present.

After looking at all the planes on the market (and there are a ton of them) I believe HobbyZone offers the best variety and quality of RTF product for the money.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/22/2007 12:01:34 AM >

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/22/2007 1:46:42 AM   
tam popo


 

Posts: 3105
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: glasgow, , UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Nothing wrong with trying the b/box, might even work well. If your son is new to flying the f27c might be too intense. Its blisteringly fast(too fast?) for a newbie, plus its LiPO. Iv'e just bought a f27b (NiCad) cos I don't want to do 80mph just yet (I don't do it in my car!) and am wary of the LiPo constraints. Master the swift and challenger first then think about f27b then upgrade to f27c. If you struggle with swift then you're doomed, doomed I tell you! When my swift is resting I fly a Zagi (480 motor, NiCad) and ME262 animal (twin 480 foam pusher prop). I love the swift for the way it handles a stiff breeze and its predictable - the others are a handful. Anyway, got to repair swift now, the wires came adrift this morning from battery lead. Byee!!!
_________________________________________
True: Orville Wright invented first unmanned plane loaded with TNT to crash on German trenches WW1. Gyros used but not good. The first Tomahawk/Doodle Bug. Can't remember its name.

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RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread - 3/23/2007 6:14:34 PM   
Swift427



Posts: 485
Joined: 3/15/2007
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I hear you loud and clear across the big pond. We'll begin our HZ flying by learning with the Challenger work up to the Swift and then by this summer have access to a private field that flys combat Wednesday nights for some Stryker flying.

So far so good with initial buddy box test as both Challenger TX and Swift TX use identical pots for servos. I invested in another Swift TX for some more buddy box experimenting so now I'll have an extra TX circuit board as you just disconnect the the servo/pot 6-pin connector and the two 2-pin connectors from the circuit board. I installed a mini 4PDT On-On mounted on the top of the Challenger TX just to the right of the antennae. Mounted two mini 3PDT on the Swift TX below the trim control as the Challenger only uses 2 of the 3 pot connections as it doesn't offer a low rate and high rate servo control. This allows independent control of either elevator or airelons for grandson(or grandpa) or both controls active on buddy box as we progress. Installed two 1/8" stereo jacks on bottom side for when Swift TX is used by instructor and Challenger TX is buddy box. Installed two RCA phono jacks beside 1/8" jacks for application when Challenger TX is used by instructor and Swift TX is the buddy box. Actually either TX can be live or the buddy box depending on which one has so the little guy can control just the throttle for practice on takeoff, flare landing or more advanced aerobatic maneuvers. So in this application when throttle control is used for learning flight maneuvers the servo controls can be turned off and operated by the one instructing using the buddy box. Only one TX has batteries at any one time when using a buddy box, but both can still function nornally by themself or as a buddy box. This dual function also allows the beginner to pretend to operate the throttle or the servos depending on which TX is powered.

Only time will tell whether all this additional expense, time and very meticulous effort (need a magnifier lamp) was worth the trouble. The plan/idea is that this buddy box system will allow/encourage my little grandson to learn the basics of flying at a younger age with less frustration. And when there is a crash the instructor can always take as much blame as neccesary so that the little guy doesn't feel so bad or get too easily discouraged.



< Message edited by Swift427 -- 3/23/2007 6:22:17 PM >

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