RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (Full Version)

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Jiggawatt -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/13/2007 5:46 AM)

Ive been flying my Commander II for a while and I have her down pat. I was thinking of gettin the swift, but before I buy her will the wall charger that comes with the Commander work with the swifts? Maybe just get the peak charger? What does everyone else use? Any help would be great, Thanks.




tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/13/2007 8:18 AM)

Welcome to the thread! I can only give you my views and these are personal. Charging: I'm not familiar with the wall charger for you plane but the swift is the cigar lighter type for car. Its Ok but I want a charger in-house so have a mains trickle charger - Ok but the ideal (for me) would be fast charger for house and use cigar type when arriving at site. I have 6 packs from 850MaH up to 1350MaH for 4 planes (Swift, Zagi, ME262 monster and the Stryker f27b). F27b is best. Because of number o packs the trickle charger struggle - I need to upgrade. As regards the swift there is a thread "Aerobird Swift problems....". Take a look then decide whether or not to buy (very informative, people are coming to some decisions!!!). Read it, dare you. Nice to converse with someone new - "Fresh Blood, Igor!!)[:D][:)]




Jiggawatt -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/13/2007 6:39 PM)

Hey thanks! Sounds like you know your stuff so ill ask you. I want to start learning with ailerons. Is this the plane for that, or should I start somwhere else? Im not a fan of sims, and I would rather bust it then fix it, call me crazy. Keep it it old school. Also im used to one wing, how does the two piece wing hold up on the swift. I guess it doesnt matter this planes looks awsome, but im just curious. Thanks, P.S Whats your last name? Im a Forbes (Spe-Expecto)
quote:

ORIGINAL: tam popo

Welcome to the thread! I can only give you my views and these are personal. Charging: I'm not familiar with the wall charger for you plane but the swift is the cigar lighter type for car. Its Ok but I want a charger in-house so have a mains trickle charger - Ok but the ideal (for me) would be fast charger for house and use cigar type when arriving at site. I have 6 packs from 850MaH up to 1350MaH for 4 planes (Swift, Zagi, ME262 monster and the Stryker f27b). F27b is best. Because of number o packs the trickle charger struggle - I need to upgrade. As regards the swift there is a thread "Aerobird Swift problems....". Take a look then decide whether or not to buy (very informative, people are coming to some decisions!!!). Read it, dare you. Nice to converse with someone new - "Fresh Blood, Igor!!)[:D][:)]





Swift427 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/13/2007 10:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jiggawatt

Ive been flying my Commander II for a while and I have her down pat. I was thinking of gettin the swift, but before I buy her will the wall charger that comes with the Commander work with the swifts? Maybe just get the peak charger? What does everyone else use? Any help would be great, Thanks.

NiMH info worth reading--http://www.batteryuniversity.com and http://www.powerstream.com/NiMH.htm?nowritefs

CIIs wall charger is for 6-cell 7.2v 900mAh NiMH battery. HZ says charge time is 3 hours so I'm figuring the wall charger would have an output of 450mA. The two battery choices for the Swift are the 8.4v 1000mAh NiMH and the 9.6v 900mAh NiMH. The CII wall charger (output at least 7.5v) is not sufficient to charge the 8.4v and 9.6v batteries used in the Swift as NiMH batteries will absorb more then their rated voltage during most of their charge cycle-except for the last few minutes. So for instance a 9.6v NiMH battery will accept as much as 12 volts and 1.8 amps during a 45 minute "peak" charge cycle. It is always best to let your NiMH batteries rest for 2-3 hours after use before recharging again. And if you are letting them rest then it shouldn't be necessary to always "peak" charge them in 45 minutes. I prefer a C/50 rate (90 minutes) as you do a top-off final peak charge for a few minutes just before field use for mazimum power.

It is IMPORTANT that you don't fast/quick charge a new NiMH battery. It is generally recommended that a new NiMH battery needs a first time trickle charge that can last up to 15 hours before the battery is ever "peak" charged. C/10 is the general rule of thumb "trickle" rate for NiCD and C/50 seems to be the "trickle" rate that is more appropriate for NiMH. The average fast/peak time (after first-time conforming trickle process) for a NiMH battery is about 45 minutes. When you charge a new NiMH battery it should be charged for at least 3 hours and probably for more like 8-12 hours. NiMH battery manufacturers are suppose to do a full performance conditioning before shipping, but some may short this step, so it is recommended that the buyer do a C/10--15 hour slow trickle performance conditioning before ever fast/quick charging. If a battery is rated at 1000mAh you would charge it for 15 hours with the variable amp setting of 100mA(0.10A). It is recommended that NiMH batteries be fully discharged about every 3 months. HZ says that their variable rate(up to 1.2A) car charger that comes with the Swift does not provide enough oopmh at 1.2 amps to fully "peak" charge the optional 8-cell 9.6v NiMH battery. They say you need to buy their variable rate 1.8A car charger to fully "peak" charge the 9.6v battery for maximum power output.

You may want to invest in a charger designed just for NiMH batteries ($60) that can slow charge, peak charge, discharge, and recycle charge. Such a charger would allow you to use both a 110v AC source or a 12v DC source.






Jiggawatt -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/13/2007 10:59 PM)

Swift, so how do I know whether to trickle the battery for 3 hours or as much as 15hours for a 1000Mah? Well the charger indicate that to me? I dont want to overcharge the battery and not even use it. And what do you mean by c/50 rate. Thanks for the info,much appreciated.




tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/14/2007 12:12 AM)

Hi again! Read Mr Swifts427 comments on batteries/charging - its all there! I rekindled the flying bug only 5 months ago and decided, for personal reasons, to go electric. Reasons: Little prepping for flight, ease of finding flying site, no regimentation, low cost - I just love electric. Retired aged 55 so can go out every day (weather?). Advice? just do as you are doing now - research! Thanks to web you can narrow choice of plane down to avoid buying an expensive dog. I have 4 planes (total cost with ancillaris £500). Buy your main plane with interchangeable TX/RX minimum 3 channel FM. its possible to get a budget one for £ 50 or less!! But buy a complete package from a reputable manufacturer (read test reviews on RCUni) and ask questions if needed. Airlorons: they're jut a means to an end. Flying under control is the goal - how you get there and with what form of control (airlorons, elevons, rudder, elevator etc) is the answer. Think of this: There are standard planes out there with low weight cameras/video fitted. The plane you're interested in, can that take off with that gear. If it can thats a good start. The f27b is great because of one simple fact - its easy to fly (fast) co its lght weight, powerful, tough and importantly only has 2 moving surfaces - elevons, not the 4 working sufaces of the swift. And my surname is the most common Welsh name ever!! [:D]sorry about the sermon - its good for insomics like myself[:o][&o]




johnpcunningham -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/14/2007 5:35 AM)

Hey Swift 427,

Befro I forget, go look up my post on "Hobbyzone Challenger Re-engineering mods". I listed a lot of what I did ti that bird including the 480 motor and FET change.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5582722/anchors_5582722/mpage_1/key_challenger%252Cmods/anchor/tm.htm#5582722

As for the brushless in the SWIFT, sure...spenging up to $120 on an ESC controller and motor is alot. My reasoning is that I could re-use this setup in other planes that warrent the cost - like the PZ Mustang and Spitfire. Hell, I even put the same bushless in the Challenger. Imagine the sound of a Stryker C in the Challenger. I had to build a tiny circuit board with a microcontroller on iit to convert the motor signal to something the ESC could understand. Hopefully, I'll sell them on EBAY on in this forum in the next 2 weeks. I do HW Engineering as a profession and I had these professionally made at a PCB house. OK, enough sales pitch :)

I will be the first to admit, when I started flying the Swift, I found it frustrating. The challenger was much easier to get airborn. No refernece to their skill levels; in my opinion they both fly in a similar fashion. But it was that the Swift was much heavier thatn the Challenger, given its motor. SOme would say that aeilerons make the difference but I as long as you aren't doing aerobatics, they fly and turn about the same. Now that the bushless is in there, I would have to say that the SWIFT is probably one of the most fun planes in my hanger. I run it at half throttle most of the time and dogfight with my buddy who has the challenger and sonic module. The Swift is now graceful, easiy to fly, guaranteed had toss launches, and does not require a circuit board to use the same electronics.

My faith has been restored :)

JC






tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/14/2007 8:04 AM)

Forgot to answer question on wings - here goes!! Do you drive to site or not, can you get plane in boot with wings on? Do you drive Ferrari or SUV? Reason for questions is the wings are sometimes a sloppy fit in fuse so might need packing of some sort. This is important: If you take wings out of fuse at any time put something/anything around the servo wires to stop them popping back into/out of fuse - you'll have to fish around for them if you don't put something on wires to stop this happening - try elastic bands or similar (this has been detailed on aerobird problems thread). If you undo the four screws in bottom of fuse to get access replace them with same thread size cup hanger style screws - you won't need a screwdriver at site to undo them again. Make sure battery is as far back as possible as a start to trimming for flight - push right up against b/head (circuit board). To keep battery from moving/falling out use velcro strip on bottom of battery and recepter velcro inside fuse bottom. This applies to almost any plane as long as it doesn't affect heating of battery. These are minor things and just make life easier and apply to any plane you might buy.[:D] "Igor, I think we have created a monster![8D]
_________________________________________
Great Wall of China, Hadrians Wall, Machu Pitchu, K2 etc - all great launch sites!




Swift427 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/14/2007 6:55 PM)

John,

I'm taking another path with the Swift that is less expensive, but will provide a noticeable improvement in thrust. Will have modifications and test flights done in a couple weeks.

Going to checkout your Challenger link. Thanks for your good suggestions.




Swift427 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/14/2007 7:33 PM)

After reinforcing the wing sockets, shortening the wing spar for a tighter squeeze against fuselage and implementing a lock-down device for tightening wing spar to wing during flight I came to the following realization --- The 2 middle openings in the wing socket for the spar and servo connector can actually be enlarged into one larger opening. This makes it much easier for inserting and retrieval of excess servo wire and the 3-wire connector. Ninety percent of the wing support/stress during a crash is around against the outer circumference of the wing socket. I've also made some other modifications to the wing socket and wing ends that are a great improvement with very minimal increase in flying weight.





johnpcunningham -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/16/2007 3:39 AM)

Servo wires!!!!

Yea, the design stinks. I cut a small hole in the fuse about 0.5 inches below where the wing mates to the body. I pulled the servo wires out this hole. I then took the servo wires from the wing and have them come out about 1 inch back from the end of the wing that attaches ot the fuse. Simply losed up the 2 screws on the wing closest to the end, pull the servo wire and connector out some, and then tighten the screws up again. The yello plastic piece on the sing will clamp down nicely and hold the servo wire out about 1 inch from the end of the wing.

This way, the servos sort of "hang" in the wind when you fly but it does not impact flight. Makes putting the SWIFT together and apart again a sinch. No more fishing for wires inside the fuse.

JC




tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/16/2007 9:06 AM)

John, Hiya! Questions cos you're the tech guy here. I was told that the swift circuit board was same as Spitfire, in other words it would accept LiPo if jumper 3 is lifted out. Is this true. Reason for question I might put rx/esc into new f27b+ i'm building (b/less, 2200 Mah Lipo etc) or will I have to use a b/less esc 30A I have spare. What are your thoughts seeing as you have had both planes. Saw your Challenger notes - good. But Scooper sure has a transport/storage problem. And my wife complains about my 4 planes. Having small operation Thursday so can't fly for 4 weeks. Flying sofa 4 weeks then off to spain to test fly a bar stool for 2 weeks. Getting ithdrawal symptoms so buying a Silverlit thing for the lounge flying!! [:D][:)]




Swift427 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/16/2007 7:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnpcunningham

Servo wires!!!!

Yea, the design stinks. I cut a small hole in the fuse about 0.5 inches below where the wing mates to the body. I pulled the servo wires out this hole. I then took the servo wires from the wing and have them come out about 1 inch back from the end of the wing that attaches ot the fuse. Simply losed up the 2 screws on the wing closest to the end, pull the servo wire and connector out some, and then tighten the screws up again. The yello plastic piece on the sing will clamp down nicely and hold the servo wire out about 1 inch from the end of the wing.

This way, the servos sort of "hang" in the wind when you fly but it does not impact flight. Makes putting the SWIFT together and apart again a sinch. No more fishing for wires inside the fuse.

JC

Alpharaptor shows your changes with photos on the Aerobird Swift Repair thread. I considered this, but decided to actually increase overall size of opening so now its a breeze to insert extra length of servo wire as well as retrieve servo connector from fuselage. With my modifications to the fuselage wing socket, wing spar, wing spar lockdown and wing ends the larger opening does not diminish or sacrifice the structural integrity of the wing socket. You would think so, but stresses are against circumference of wing socket anyway. The tiny thin pillar that separated the servo connector hole from the wing spare hole was never really intended/designed to provide any structural integrity. So enlarging just enough for ease of retrieval reduces flying weight [:D].




Swift427 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/16/2007 8:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tam popo

I was told that the swift circuit board was same as Spitfire, in other words it would accept LiPo if jumper 3 is lifted out. Is this true. Reason for question I might put rx/esc into new f27b+ i'm building (b/less, 2200 Mah Lipo etc) or will I have to use a b/less esc 30A I have spare.

John--Do you know if the Swift ESC/RX HBZ725(channel #) circuit board can safely handle the additional energy from a 3-cell 11.1v Li-Poly battery? Can the Swift 9 gram 3W servo HBZ7242 safely handle the additional energy from a 3-cell 11.1v Li-Poly? Thanks!




Swift427 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/16/2007 11:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnpcunningham

Being an engineer I was skeptical of RC simulators. Oh sure, they look fun but are they realistic? I spent the money and bought the FSone simulator (www.fsone.com).

I’m telling everyone out there who is new or thinking about getting into the RC flyers, PLEASE PLEASE buy this simulator first for their going price of $200. (i.e. I have no affiliation with them BTW). Why? You will spend more money on parts, time fixing, frustration, or even ruin your entry or mid level plane trying to fly on your own for the first time

Anyway….here is my review on the FSone simulator.

I loaded up the simulator on my PC. It is 4 CDs and takes about one hour to load, even on a dual core machine with 2GB 667MHz RAM. You MUST MUST have an NVIDIA 5000 series or ATI 9200 series graphics card or better. 128Mb minimum. It will not work without this kind of graphics power. I even tired an ATI rage with 128 MB and it would not run.

Once loaded, I plugged in the USB transmitter controller (no batteries required), ran the calibration and was ready to go. They have many planes you can buy on the market, not just generic planes (Hanger 9, Aerobird extreme, F27B Styker, gliders, E-flight helicopters, jets, etc). You can also choose the panoramic background to match where you fly. It is a real panoramic photograph, not computer animated. Airports, soccer fields, indoor backetball courts, etc. Following the plane is the same as you would see in the sky, like a camera tracking the plane and some autozoom if needed.

I started with the Aerobird Extreme. I practiced until the point I knew I had it right and turns were crisp with no stalls. The next day I went to the soccer field and tossed up my challenger (not part of the sim by the way) and thusly began my very first RC flight ever. I must say it felt as though I was sitting in front of my computer. Perfect flights, no crashes and the landings were all great. Turns were smooth and it looked like I had been doing it for a long time. The $200 spent on the simulator saved my plane and the frustration of repairing. The physics and dynamics were dead on.

So the next outing I had a few crashes and wondered why? I had gotten so good, right? Nope…stupid gusty wind. So ahh haa! I added in 16 and 20 mph gusty winds on the simulator, for here in Austin TX we have had some windy days lately. I see where I was making my mistakes and not turning into or away from the wind properly. Practiced on the simulator and now I have no problems flying in the wind. Problem solved. The FSone’s aerobird extreme and challenger fly so much alike that you should be fine if you only have the challenger.

I tried the RealFlight simulator at the local hobby shop. It isn’t bad but it does not give the realism that I found to be on the FSone. Not even close in my opinion.

Take it from me, a true skeptic, this simulator saved me lots of money and is about as close as you can get to the real thing. See if a buddy can split the cost with you. I’ve already loaned mine out to 3 of mine and they are impressed.

Hope this helps

John (JC)



After too many crashes and not much fun I decided to check out this simulator at a local hobby store. I quickly became a believer and appreciate John's recommendation for the Hangar 9 FS One Precision Flight Simulator. I believe it's worth the initial outlay over the long run. It will save me a lot of frustration and time in making repairs. It'll make flying more enjoyable as it will definitely shorten the learning curve for me, my son and it will be a big plus for my grandson to encourage him instead of frustrating him with too many crashes. Now the three of us can get realistic practice flying different planes and in the process become much better pilots in considerably less time, with considerably fewer crashes, less frustration, less downtime due to repairs, less money leaving my wallet and most importantly more quality time in the field enjoying the X-port accessories.

Thanks John!




johnpcunningham -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/17/2007 12:06 AM)

Tam,

I don't believe they are the same circuit board from what I see. The SWIFT has a jumper on it but it looks to be a jumper that connects the servo voltage to the MCU, which is an Atmel mega48. It connects to the A2D (Analog to Digital port, pin 28 of the MCU) with a 1K and 1Meg ohm resistor divider. It reads the regulated voltage. But I don't think this is what is used to detect the voltage on the battery. Where the motor connects to the board, there is a voltage divider of 840K & 240K resistors and it connects to ADC7 (pin 22 of MCU). The MCU reads this to determine the voltage and where it should cut off the motor once battery voltage drops below a programmed minimum. You could probably play with some resistor values if you wanted to run the LiPO and have it cut off the motor properly or bridge in a resistor to an externally mounted switch to change the choice between NiMh and LiPo. The resistor in parallel will change the cutoff ppoint. I did the switch thing on the PK P51 Mustang and it works great (no resistor added though).

You can still run LiPos, but you will need to watch and listen to the motor speed as to not run them down too much where you will ruin the LiPo pack.
If you are running brushless in an ESC, the ESC should cut off the voltage going to the motor and overide any of the basic electronics built into the RX ont he swift. Most ECS controller can be programmed for NiMH or LiPos by following
the instructions that came with it. and using the controller throttle to set the values.

Also, I've run the LiPo on the stock swift motor and it works fine. The electronics all run off of a 5 volt regulator so no problem to the electronics. They pull so little current that the regulator does not get warm.

JC








tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/17/2007 2:29 AM)

Thanks for that John/Swift 427 - saved me a few pounds. Not putting any more time/effort into Swift except using LiPo's from my other planes. It flys now but its a struggle sometimes. If I see Ronrico on a thread I'll ask him how the hell did he get that Swift to fly like that in the video? Why do we still call them "videos" when they're obviously not!!![:D] Condolences from UK flyers on the events in Virginia.[:o]




johnpcunningham -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/17/2007 6:29 AM)

Tam,

A quick and easy upgrade for you would be to buy the motor for the Aerobird Extreme and use it in the SWIFT. It is a step up from a 480 to a 540 motor and the extra power would be worth it. Less than $20 from www.hobbyzone.com. Much cheaper than going brushless - although I have to admit the brushless Swift I have built is a dream to fly now.

JC




tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/18/2007 10:46 AM)

Hiya Everyone!! As promised here is the vid I promised of Ronrico418 maidening his swift - awesome - his reply to me was on stryker "Dark Side part 5" http://www.onetruemedia.com/shared?p=1f71809e0dfe3b358a47af&skin_id=0&utm_source=otm&utm_medium=text_url [:D][:)][8D]




johnpcunningham -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/18/2007 8:50 PM)

I finally got my brushless controller released for the HobbyZone and Parkzone flyers. Check it out and pass the work for those interested:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5735217/tm.htm

JC




Swift427 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/18/2007 9:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: johnpcunningham

Tam,

A quick and easy upgrade for you would be to buy the motor for the Aerobird Extreme and use it in the SWIFT. It is a step up from a 480 to a 540 motor and the extra power would be worth it. Less than $20 from www.hobbyzone.com. Much cheaper than going brushless - although I have to admit the brushless Swift I have built is a dream to fly now.

JC

It would be anything but easy and quick. It just WON'T FIT!. The motor is physically just too big(diameter) and too heavy to put in the Swift--I know! The motor in the Swift isn't really a true 480, but more like a 400. A true 480 has a 1/8" propeller shaft; whereas, 400s have a smaller propeller shaft like the Swift motor. Also, true 480 brushed motors are not neutral timed so if you want a 480 for a pusher prop you need to specify a reverse drive motor which costs about $30.

I've ordered a special, but inexpensive brushed motor that will fit in the Swift that will provide a significant increase in torque/thrust with little increase in weight. Will let the cat out of the bag after installing and test runs.




johnpcunningham -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/18/2007 10:37 PM)

Hey SWIFT427,

I've never seen the motor in the Extreme but my assumption is that it is the same size. The brushless fit with no problem in terms of motor diamater. You can't run the original prop on the bushless; I simply use the one off the Stryker C.
When I upgraded my P-51 to a brushless, I took that motor out and put it in the Challenger. They say it is a 480 in the P-51 and it seems to have the same diamater as the others. Maybe you are right?

Do you have a motor out of the extreme?




Swift427 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/18/2007 11:11 PM)

Yes!

I ordered one thinking I could somehow make it fit. But its larger size makes it impractical to adapt to the Swift. Also, the increased weight of this 540 sitting above the wings would frustrate even Charles Lindberg and Howard Hughes. Kind of like putting a V8 on top of a Ford Fiesta.

The 480 Swift motor is not a true 480. It is really more like a 400, but apparently there is a "gray area" in brushed motor classificiation that allows HZ a free hand in calling it a 480.

Supposedly, there isn't such an animal as a "neutral timed" "true" 480 brushed motor used in planes. Majority of "true" 480 brushed motors are tuned for right rotation. If you want a "true" 480 reverse motor for a pusher prop it will cost about $30. All "true" 480 motors have a 1/8" diameter propeller shaft.




ronrico418 -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/23/2007 7:16 AM)

Tam popo Greetings from the DARKSIDE


Yes the Swift in my vid is completely stock. Yes that was a good engine. I eventually got a replacement fuse with gear and my then new engine was not as powerful but I still was able to take off from ground. I thiught I was just lucky intil I crashed near the end of my flight. Note to self Fly in familiar territory. The wind was not blowing in the right direction for our skinny little runway so we went out into the street. Not a busy road although a car did come by.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6932039371773965076&q=flyhi420productions&pr=goog-

May have been the wind I was flying in on both counts that aided my lift.

Plan on making more video's soon as I am planning on building my next Swift with my old brushless settup from my Stryker C including radio.

Great job to everyone on keeping this thread going - I'll be checking back

I've been working on for my newest BL settup Mega powered Stryker ready to pull 85-90 amps on 3S. This is a pic of "some" of the carbon fiber on my Mega Stryker controlled by a Spektrum DX 7. Working on Basswood TE's and balsa fins now.

~RONRICO

[IMG]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Ronrico418/newcamerapics.jpg[/IMG]

check me out at http://www1.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=A8B632C9-DCA7-4744-9BD1-9A8BC1ED01D7 click on my red truck. Cool vid on there of rocket powered v-tail.



It's 2AM do you know where your LIPOS are?




tam popo -> RE: Official Aerobird Swift Thread (4/23/2007 10:52 AM)

Hiya Ronrico418! Welcome back from the Dark Side - holiday eh! I know mr Moderator is watching but what servos are you installinf in F27. I'll catch answer on Dark Side later - cool truck, obviously no big family!! We have strengthening ties in our swift - they're called girders! You have a choice, install Lipo or b/less in swift (only one), which would it be! Catch you later, got to rest dangly bits after recent op! Byeee[:D][8D]




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