How safe are homebuilt planes?  
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How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 12:58:24 PM   
Gravityisnotmyfriend



Posts: 848
Joined: 3/1/2004
From: Greenville, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I just want to know some statistics. I'm a private pilot and am planning on building my first plane. I'm leaning heavily toward the RV-7. The problem is my soon to be wife is not entirely supportive on the idea. My dad crashed a plane when he was in his 20's which makes her think that planes are dangerous. I tried to explain to her that he has had one crash in 30+ yrs of flying and she's been in 5 car accidents in 7 yrs of driving. That didn't go over very well. I believe that private aviation is a very safe sport, but I need some facts to back me up. Can anyone help me convince her?

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The mathematician sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. The engineer sees it as full with a Safety Factor of 2.
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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 1:02:44 PM   
jlkonn



Posts: 1255
Joined: 1/2/2003
From: Planet Earth, IA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm sure if you contact EAA at the following website, or if you give them a call they can help you get the answers to your questions.
http://www.eaa.org/
Good Luck!
JLK


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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 1:24:19 PM   
Gravityisnotmyfriend



Posts: 848
Joined: 3/1/2004
From: Greenville, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I may need to restate my question. I looked on the EAA site (thanks for the link) and it said that the accident rate for homebuilt planes is less than 1% higher than the accident rate for general aviation. I guess I need to know how safe general aviation is. I'll do some research on that, but if anyone has stats on hand, I'd appreciate it.

-edit I found some facts on the NTSB website

fatal accidents - .53/1000 active piolts
non-fatal accidents - 2.82/1000 active pilots

If I can find a comparison to automobile accidents, I may be on to something

< Message edited by Gravityisnotmyfriend -- 8/15/2006 1:30:20 PM >

_____________________________

The mathematician sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. The engineer sees it as full with a Safety Factor of 2.

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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 1:32:52 PM   
MajorTomski



Posts: 1388
Joined: 5/1/2003
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Well, one of the factors involved in most homebuilts is that ususally the builder only has enough money to either rent and fly or build but not both. So for the 7+ years most folks spend on building, plus going through the divorce, when they finally finish the airplane their flying skills are rusty. Then they go out and fly an airplane that has usually higher performance than they're used to from a production spam can.

Enough with the optimisim,
Try starting with these folks

http://www.faasafety.gov/

You're on the right track with your wife though. The ride to and from the airport is ALWAYS more dangerous than the flight!

(in reply to Gravityisnotmyfriend)
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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 2:00:24 PM   
Flyfalcons



Posts: 6100
Joined: 7/27/2002
From: Bonney Lake, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Homebuilt planes, especially from well-established designers and companies, can be as safe as production airplanes. It's their idiot pilots that give them a bad name.

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Cub flying - the new EXTREME SPORT!!! (evarrr)

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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 2:16:21 PM   
Gravityisnotmyfriend



Posts: 848
Joined: 3/1/2004
From: Greenville, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I really thought I was on to something. According to this website:
http://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/stats-usa.htm
there are 190.7 deaths per 10,000 registered automobile drivers. That means that there is 19.07 deaths/1,000 as compared to .53 deaths/1,000 pilots. That would be a great stat to back up my story, unfortunately it is just wrong. They got their stats from FARS (there's a link to it on the site) that stated that there are 19.07 deaths/100,000 drivers. The driveandstayalive site converted to deaths/ 10,000 drivers by apparently multiplying the numerator by 10 and the denominator by .1 - now I'm no mathematician or anything, but I don't think that's right. If I take the stats from FARS, the fatality rate is .1907 deaths/ 1,000 drivers which means it is over twice as dangerous to fly than it is to drive if you compare it to the number of drivers/pilots. A more optimistic statistic for my case is that there are an average of 43,000 deaths per year in autos and only about 100 deaths per year in private aircraft. Of course that is because there are many more cars than airplanes.

_____________________________

The mathematician sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. The engineer sees it as full with a Safety Factor of 2.

(in reply to Flyfalcons)
       Post #: 6

RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 2:36:54 PM   
jlkonn



Posts: 1255
Joined: 1/2/2003
From: Planet Earth, IA, USA
Status: offline 		The accident rate also depends on if you are comparing time or distance.
When you throw a couple hundred folks in a 747 and travel 3,000 miles that is generating a LOT of passenger/mile stats.
If you are comparing "sorties"...that is each time the plane or car leaves the barn that would be another stat.
Then of course there would be different classes of accidents...physical damage only to the vehicle...injury to occupants, deaths...
It goes on and on.
Good luck with your "Quest"!
JLK


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A goal without a plan is just a dream.
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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 5:29:56 PM   
Robinaire



Posts: 759
Joined: 9/7/2002
From: West Palm Beach, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Anti-gravity!! I see you are getting lots of info from people. But mine has nothing to do with statistics. I am 80 yrs old, and still pass the commercial physical. I have been flying 62 years, have 5000+ hours. in about 60 different makes & models of planes, from gliders and HOMEBUILTS, up to Twin Beech, Camair 480 C-310, Apache, Aztec, twin Commanche and Lockheed 10. I soloed my wife in an American TR-2 trainer when she was a 50 yr old Grandma! She has flown all over the place with me, and, in fact, tends to fall asleep with boredom on long trips!! I always insisted she stay awake when at the controls! She can no longer fly OR drive, due to being legally blind with Macular Degeneration, but won't hesitate getting into a plane with me. The BEST WAY TO CURE ANY FEAR OF FLYING IS TO TAKE LESSONS! MOST OF THE PROBLEM IS "FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN"!!! Once you learn what it is all about, and see that you have full control of what is going on, then you begin to see all the plusses to flying in small planes. I have NEVER had an accident in a plane, but I have been hit by other cars over the years about 5 times. Obviously, none were fatal!!! In fact, the worst was when a car slammed into Kays car broadside by someone running a stop sign. She had a bad cut on left arm (3 or 4 stiches) and scratch on head. I'LL TAKE THE PLANE ANY DAY!!! Say HI to your dear "spice"-to be, and tell her not to worry---save that for the miserable road traffic! Sincerely; Lee & Kay Robinson W. Palm Beach, FL

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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 5:48:25 PM   
Ed Toner


 

Posts: 142
Joined: 2/20/2005
From: , NJ, USA
Status: offline 		All of these replies are correct, and if I may, I would suggest a powered parachute for quelling her fears. The only way you can get hurt is to fly into a building, or something really stupid like that, and even then you'll do it at 26 knots.

I have about 7 hours in the Para Plane. Great fun, twin engines, contra-rotating props, no torque problems, etc..

Unfortunately, the owner/designer got killed in a Warbird. His name was "Steve Snyder" or something like that. At 75, my memory isn't what it used to be.

Did I mention my memory isn't what it used to be?

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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 7:28:47 PM   
bdavison


 

Posts: 3350
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Warner Robins, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Tell her you can practice emergency recovery by doing some skydiving if that would make her feel safer. Me personally, I think the FAA should require at least one skydive for a pilots license. Once you jump out of an airplane at 15,000ft, that homebuilt will look really safe.

< Message edited by bdavison -- 8/15/2006 7:29:33 PM >

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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 8:21:43 PM   
MajorTomski



Posts: 1388
Joined: 5/1/2003
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Hello again

Ironically the September issue of KITPLANES has EXACTLY the article you're looking for

http://www.kitplane.com/issues/23_9/exploring/7656-1.phtml

HTH
Tom

Good luck.

By the way, if you do a realistic cost benefit analysis, a home built will probably cost you more than a good use production airplane. The only benefit is the JOY and PRIDE of having built your own aiplane.

(in reply to bdavison)
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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 8:56:05 PM   
ShoestringRacer


 

Posts: 646
Joined: 3/25/2002
From: NY, NY, USA
Status: offline 		3 pages:

http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=376


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RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 8:56:43 PM   
Gravityisnotmyfriend



Posts: 848
Joined: 3/1/2004
From: Greenville, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the responses! JLK, It would be easy to pad my statistics using commercial traffic, but I want to find a fair estimation of safety. I haven't done much more research because I'm at work, but it would be interesting to find out a ratio accidents/time behind the wheel.
Robinaire, WOW - I really hope I can still pass my physical at 80. That's quite a track record of flying - I'm impressed.
Ed Toner - PPC's are cool. I've been up in them, but I want something I can travel in. You can't get anywhere very fast at those speeds and I don't like being that limited by weather. But, for getting in the air and seeing the sights they can't be beat.
Bdavidson - Do you want me to jump out of a plane or her? I don't need to be convinced of the safety and I can barely get her up in a plane, much less get her to jump out at altitude Maybe that would be all it would take and she wouldn't bring it up anymore.
MajorTomski - The link you posted asked me to log in. Any way you could cut and paste the article into a new document so I could see it? My dad has a subscription to Kit Planes, I could wait until next time I go and visit and see if I can dig up the article otherwise. As far as cost, that's really not the reason for me to build a plane. My dad has built two planes. He just got his last one flying two summers ago. I helped as much as I could with the build so I have a good idea of what goes into it. Depending on which engine I go with, I'll probably have close to $50K in an RV-7 by the time I get it done. I could get a used production plane for that, but it wouldn't be new, it wouldn't perform like an RV, and I'd have to spend money at least once a year on annuals not to mention any other maintenance. Aside from that, I like to build and the pride of my own plane is another big factor. I also should clarify that it's not necessarily that she is nervous about homebuilt planes, she's nervous about private planes in general. I've been in college for the last five years and haven't had the time or money to fly so she's hasn't been exposed to me flying since we've been together.

_____________________________

The mathematician sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. The engineer sees it as full with a Safety Factor of 2.

(in reply to MajorTomski)
       Post #: 13

RE: How safe are homebuilt planes? - 8/15/2006 9:40:46 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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