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RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/25/2006 10:58:27 AM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5607
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: 50%plane

If the rest of the modeling world was as smart as you, or had as much time, I would say that you had a good point.


Christopher,

You know that I work a minimum of 70 hours per week, and I have never claimed to be as smart as you ar anyone else. Flaming me does not show me how much a man you are, just how big a smart ass you have become. Go look in the mirror, and then tell me that what I said about not building is true or not.

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 176

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/25/2006 11:05:49 AM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5607
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: online 		Okay, Let me pose a counter question here. If no such thing as an ARF existed, what would you guys fly? I'm serious here, and I really would like to know. Please no smartass replies, just think about it. What would you fly if there were no such thing as an ARF?

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to Stickbuilder)
       Post #: 177

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/25/2006 3:32:06 PM   
carlosponti



Posts: 1083
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Moore, OK, USA
Status: online 		to answer your question stickbuilder, they would fly planes other people had built at swap meets like they did before arf's. i also want to mention there would probably be less in RC airplanes if it were not for arf's. no offense but there was a reason why arf's were created. some of its lazyness and some of its family constraints, job pressures, and frankly some people just dont have the patience to build. my dad for instance can do some nice metalworking but put him in front of a kit plane for 6 months and he would lose it. mind you my dad doesnt fly rc. i have always liked building stuff like RC cars RC planes and plastic model kits of cars and planes since i was a wee tot. i also like arf's if i cant find a plane i like of the same plane in a kit.



< Message edited by carlosponti -- 8/25/2006 8:41:37 PM >

(in reply to Stickbuilder)
       Post #: 178

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/25/2006 4:08:59 PM   
dmajchrzak



Posts: 252
Joined: 4/15/2002
From: Merrimack, NH, USA
Status: offline 		blw - thank you for allowing us the 'exception' for ARF trainers... we are forever grateful.

IronCross - you go ahead and "build" your ARF... I know what you meant.

_____________________________

Dave
Southern NH Flying Eagles

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 179

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/25/2006 4:17:20 PM   
50+AirYears


 

Posts: 1164
Joined: 7/29/2004
From: Lorain, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Building isn't always a matter of having unlimited time, it's a matter of fitting it into the time you have available. For example, in repairing a 60 powered Super Sportster wing after a deadstick into brush that tore out the LG on one side:

Wednesday morning, brought plane wing and broken LG pieces into house, washed off oil, dirt, and grass. 12 minutes.
Wednesday night. Cleaned up the area around the broken LG block on the wing, mixed up some 15 minute epoxy, glued the block pieces into place. 15 minutes.
Thursday morning, getting ready for work. Reinstalled the LG strut, added a $kote patch to the wingtip. 15 minutes.
Thursday night. CA'd backing plates into a hole in the LE sheeting. Installed the cracked out pieces. Sanded. Glued on a 1/64" plywood piece over the cracked area with Sigbond. Stretched on some rubber bands to clamp it to the LE curve. 32 minutes
This morning, getting ready for work. Feathered the plywood patch with a sanding block, cleaned up the dust, sealed on the $kote covering patch. 18 minutes. Plane is again flyable.

Working like this, I once built a Goldberg Electra glider to ready to fly in less than two weeks. That was also about the same time involvement I had into getting a GP .40 size ARF Stick ready for flight.

For most of the last 42 years, a 40 hour week on my time card usually meant I was on vacation, or earlier this year, on medical leave. One way or another, I always found some time to build. I have even been on business trips where I have even been able to find time to build a couple Ship-in-a-Bottles between travel, actual work, and the seemingly obligatory liquid lunches when business types are involved.
But that's me. Building is a major part of this hobby/sport for me. There are quite a few people who are only interested in the flying aspect, just as I know more than a few who only like to build planes and watch somebody else fly them. More power to both! Different strokes for different folks.

(in reply to carlosponti)
       Post #: 180

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/25/2006 4:54:46 PM   
tychoc



Posts: 725
Joined: 3/4/2004
From: Cedar Park, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I have a good friend here at work whom has built his own house completely from scratch. I mean, he designed it on his computer, he dug and built the foundation (with included wine cellar), cut and framed the house, did all the electrical and plumming work, sheeting, roof etc. But that's not all, he also routed stock oak boards to make his own molding for windows etc. Right now he's building the kitchen cabinets from scratch. And, before he could start on the house, he built a barn that is his workshop. He still works full time and has a fairly long commute. He doesn't look down at me for having chosen to buy my ready-to-move in house. On the other hand, I don't judge him for flying his GP ugly stick ARF since he chose to spend his time doing what he loves. He on the other hand, he really appreaciate the latest kit I've built.

Others might make other choices as to what to do with their time. In the end, we now have the choice to build and fly or only fly.

Choice is good.

-tychoc

_____________________________

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

(in reply to 50+AirYears)
       Post #: 181

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/25/2006 6:52:18 PM   
50%plane



Posts: 3765
Joined: 3/8/2005
From: x, , USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


quote:

ORIGINAL: 50%plane

If the rest of the modeling world was as smart as you, or had as much time, I would say that you had a good point.


Christopher,

You know that I work a minimum of 70 hours per week, and I have never claimed to be as smart as you ar anyone else. Flaming me does not show me how much a man you are, just how big a smart ass you have become. Go look in the mirror, and then tell me that what I said about not building is true or not.

Bill, AMA 4720



Here's your post that I quoted:
quote:

Why don't ARFer's Build kits? This is not likely to win me many friends, but I have to agree with what was said in another thread. It's really simple. The answer is: Laziness. Make whatever excuse you want, it's still the same. If ARF's were not offered, what would you fly? If you won't build, don't say you don't have the time. In the amount of time that you spend defending your choice in one post on there, you could have glued 3 or 4 ribs to the spar. 6 posts is one wing panel. It's all about justification. You are lazy. Pure and simple. Try building one. If you fail, try another one. pretty soon you will be building a better flying model than you can go out and buy. And it won't be a cookie cutter either. Get off your lazy butts and do it. Want to argue about this? Go and look in the mirror first. Then come in here and tell me what I said has no truth to it. I don't care how many kids you have, or how many hours you work, or how many jobs you have. You can set time aside to build. You find time to come here on line and post, so use that time for building.

Bill, AMA 4720


You claim that other pilots who fly ARF's are "Lazy" right?(read as: inferior to kit builders) Did you know that, according to you, Chip Hyde, Mark Leseberg, Quique Somenzini, Mike McConville, Andrew Jeskey, Jason Shulman, etc. are all "lazy"? None of them have kit built a plane recently!(unless you classify a CompARF as a kit) I will continue to build my planes as long as I can, but I DO NOT appreciate being called lazy if I do not have room for a building board(and everything that goes with it), or the time to kit build a plane.

You, my friend, are a great person who has a the ability to build a kit and desires to take time out of your busy week to do it. However, you aren't the standard.(I'm not either nor do I claim to be)

I like flying just as much as building. I build when and what I can. I fly when and what I can. Life changes things. In a little over a month, I'm going to have to ditch this hobby for a while. If I don't buy ARF's, I will probably be out of this hobby for years. If I buy ARF's, I will probably be able to take this hobby back up next year. Which do I want to do? Be "lazy"? Or out? I love flying and I will when I can. I'm not a purist when it comes to models, I hope you really aren't one either. Be glad that you do have the ability to build your spectacular Waco YMF. Hopefully, I will be able to tackle my dream project soon as well, but until then, I might just have to be "lazy".


50%

_____________________________

Model Airplanes don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills people.
Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

(in reply to Stickbuilder)
       Post #: 182

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/25/2006 9:58:53 PM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5607
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: online 		Christopher,

You won't be able to build or fly during basic training. Once you get to your training facility for your specialty, you will find base hobby shops with building area's etc. Most facilities will have a flying field available as well. Trust me on this (I did 26 years in the military). So don't be discouraged, and keep on building. You don't have to settle for anything less. By lazy, I should have substituted the phrase, won't take the time to build. We all have the same 24 hours in each day. What we choose to do with these hours makes the difference as to who we are.

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 183

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/25/2006 10:14:50 PM   
50%plane



Posts: 3765
Joined: 3/8/2005
From: x, , USA
Status: offline
quote:

By lazy, I should have substituted the phrase, won't take the time to build. We all have the same 24 hours in each day. What we choose to do with these hours makes the difference as to who we are.

Bill, AMA 4720
Thanks for clarifying. That's the point I was driving at. I personally don't think of myself as better than the average kit builder because I will build from my own plans. I also don't consider ARFing to be any lesser of modeling. It's the motivation of the person that counts and I commend anyone who will fly ARFs to spend more needed time with their families and being involved with their kids especially. However, there are folks that I think you are talking about, who want everything handed to them on a silver spoon. Those assemblers are more of a safety risk than a benefit to the modeling arenas.


50%

_____________________________

Model Airplanes don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills people.
Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

(in reply to Stickbuilder)
       Post #: 184

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/26/2006 2:54:39 AM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5607
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: online 		No, Christopher, I'm actually talking about the flyers who want to have thier cake and eat it as well. We all have the same finite amount of time available every day. It's how you make use of that time that counts. Those who make the excuses that they have kids activities, and work loads so they can't build does not wash with me. We brought up 5 wonderful children. I have spent my time since 1988 operating car dealerships, and that takes a minimum of about 70 hours per week. True the kids are grown, but I do have 8 Grandchildren who require attention. You must set aside a few minutes per day for your own sanity. I normally spend a few minutes after dinner (tonight it was after 8:30) to deal with my hobby. You don't have to completely frame a structure in one time span. It will be there tomorrow. Do a little each day, just as you would eat an elephant. One bite at a time. I am not buying the excuses. One more time; What would all of you fly if there were no ARF's? You wouldn't be able to buy all those airplanes, so what would you do?

Oh yes, I will be at the dealership tomorrow (Saturday) and Sunday afternoon as well. So don't hand me any of that horse pukky about me having lots of time to spend on the hobby.

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 185

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/26/2006 3:09:37 AM   
blw



Posts: 4608
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline 		dmajchrzak- You're welcome. How do you 'build' an ARF?

50+Years- You left out TV and video games. No wonder you have time here and there to build. (g)

Stickbuilder- I know what you mean. Did the same thing in the service. I built my last pattern plane on a 2'x3' artists board. I'm separated and living in a small, one room efficiency apartment. My building space is about the size of a phone booth...literally. Built the whole plane there. Where there is a will, there is a way. I aligned the stab and wings on the closet door that I took off the hinges. That went across the small TV stand that is my building table, across a sofa, and over part of the bed. (g) I have to shift things around in a major way just for floor space to check CG on my planes. And it's all fun.

_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 186

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/26/2006 3:39:10 AM   
50%plane



Posts: 3765
Joined: 3/8/2005
From: x, , USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

No, Christopher, I'm actually talking about the flyers who want to have thier cake and eat it as well. We all have the same finite amount of time available every day. It's how you make use of that time that counts. Those who make the excuses that they have kids activities, and work loads so they can't build does not wash with me. We brought up 5 wonderful children. I have spent my time since 1988 operating car dealerships, and that takes a minimum of about 70 hours per week. True the kids are grown, but I do have 8 Grandchildren who require attention. You must set aside a few minutes per day for your own sanity. I normally spend a few minutes after dinner (tonight it was after 8:30) to deal with my hobby. You don't have to completely frame a structure in one time span. It will be there tomorrow. Do a little each day, just as you would eat an elephant. One bite at a time. I am not buying the excuses. One more time; What would all of you fly if there were no ARF's? You wouldn't be able to buy all those airplanes, so what would you do?

Oh yes, I will be at the dealership tomorrow (Saturday) and Sunday afternoon as well. So don't hand me any of that horse pukky about me having lots of time to spend on the hobby.

Bill, AMA 4720


Ok, thanks for expanding your viewpoint.

50%

_____________________________

Model Airplanes don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills people.
Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

(in reply to Stickbuilder)
       Post #: 187

RE: AFR'S WHY NOT KITS - 8/26/2006 10:31:20 AM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5607
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: online 		Hmmmmm,

Still no answers to the question of what you would fly if there were no ARF's . Maybe no one wants to answer that one.

Bill, AMA 4720

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 188

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