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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/25/2006 10:25 PM   
Ken Erickson



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Status: offline 		Have only had "Racer" in one real race. Had 2 of them and 13 Raiders. Not clear as to which is faster.

Two months ago, fast time was set by a Raider with a TT 40 Pro and 10 X 6 APC, 1:26.57. This month it was a Racer with a TT 40 PRO and a 10X5 APC, 1:26.53 His engine was claimed. They do rev higher with the 10 X 5,

The 10 X 6 turns 15,500 on the ground. I have heard these engines like to be above 16,000. Wouldn't know about that. I am thinking Ray Allen told me his was at 16,500. Will try to verify that.

The participant who scored high points had a Raider, had times of 1:40.22, 1:43.15, 1:42.88, and 1:43.66. Due to the luck of the draw, and the early cut-off of heat racing, he never raced Ray.

Read all the posts, and get the info posted on RCPRO for more info on your question. Click on "RCPRO Racing" and then "Club 40 Racing".

Ken Erickson, AMA 19352

Edited to correct typos.

< Message edited by Ken Erickson -- 10/26/2006 6:00 AM >

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/26/2006 1:35 AM   
gunfighter


 

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Status: offline 		F1Race - there is no discernable difference between the 'raider and the LA racer.

The LA racer is a little more streamlined but it is heavier so the difference is negligable. What you gain in the straight, you loose in the turns.

The LA racer IS a little stronger though so that might ba a consideration.

Chuck

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/26/2006 2:59 AM   
Jim Duda



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Status: offline 		...and don't forget the LA Racer kit is $30 more AND it requires 5 servos...so expect a TOTAL expenditure of $40 to $50 additional for the LA Racer when you include the extra servo.

But it does look sleeker and sexxier (to most) and it is reportedly built stronger in some critical areas.

A well flown Raider will easily hold its own against it. That's why they're both allowed in this class - neither has the advantage in a race.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/26/2006 11:59 AM   
BUDMAN27



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Status: offline 		I like the ideal that you guys put a lot of thought into just having fun. I believe that there is to much thought on winning races in the nmpra than just coming out to have a good time. after all who cares who wins the doggone race lets have some fun guys. just my two cents.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/26/2006 1:33 PM   
dwbebens


 

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Status: offline 		I agree with BUDMAN27 completely. Plus I have a few other comments to make.

Just this last weekend, I raced in a Club 40 race at Ocala FL. It was my first time racing with that group. We had over 30 entries!!

There is a whole series of these races here in north-central Florida spread-out among four to five clubs. Their rules specify the stock Skyraider MkII and the stock OS 40 LA exclusively. They fly the two-pole course and use a flying start. This was my first time using the flying start and the two-pole course. I want to tell you - - WHAT A BLAST!!!!. The two pole course allows you to judge the pylons SO well. The flying start is just plain thrilling from a pilot's viewpoint and also from a spectator's viewpoint.

I had so much fun at that race. Everyone was so friendly and relaxed. What a great group. We had seven pylon "first-timers" racing with us. It truly was an entry level friendly event. Bear in mind though, there were a lot of very intensely contested heats. Racing is racing -- right!

I am a fairly experienced pylon racer. Before this race, I was wondering how I would like the two-pole course and the flying start format. I was very pleasantly surprised. Not only is it just as much fun (or more) than the three-pole course, but there are a number of distinct advantages to the two-pole course. This format requires less room, less walking, fewer helpers, fewer pylons, and NO light system. Also, as I mentioned before, the pilot himself can judge when to turn - - right on the button at both ends! Did I mention that the fact that there are NO personell on the course? These advantages became very evident to me during this race.

To the general pylon community - - in my opinion there is nothing to fear about two-pole pylon racing. We have nothing to lose and much to gain by embracing this format. I'm not saying in any way that we should change or abandon three-pole racing, but rather that we should have at least an open mind about two-pole racing and use and promote it in addition to three-pole racing. Personally, this experience has opened my mind. I've found that two-pole racing is not an abreviated or reduced or pared-down version of pylon racing. It is a different and equally enjoyable form of racing that only adds to my enjoyment of the sport.


Doug Bebensee

< Message edited by dwbebens -- 10/26/2006 8:44 PM >

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/26/2006 4:43 PM   
garys


 

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Status: offline 		You may want to check the AMA safety code and rules, I believe helmets are still required for the pilots and course workers with the two-pole course, just as there are for the timers/judges that are 300+ feet away from the three pole course.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/26/2006 6:42 PM   
dwbebens


 

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Status: offline 		GaryS;

Hmmmm. I wonder if I did mis-interpret the AMA rules. Maybe I just assumed that if you kept everyone entirely off the course, then it was much safer, and after all, that is what the AMA wants to promote.

I think I'll just edit my previous post.

Doug

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/26/2006 7:04 PM   
daven



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Status: offline 		I don't know if I would agree that it is safer by any means.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/26/2006 8:32 PM   
DonStegall


 

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< Message edited by DonStegall -- 10/26/2006 9:38 PM >

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 10/26/2006 9:32 PM   
pdxpaul


 

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Status: offline 		Don,

Thank you.

Paul

< Message edited by pdxpaul -- 10/26/2006 9:41 PM >

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/12/2006 4:41 PM   
stand-RCU


 

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I give up. Jim Duda sent me the info on ordering a SIG Mid-Star 40 kit, so I did. I am going to go with him to a race in San Antonio next Saturday, 11/18/06. I won't have my plane ready by then so I'll be available as an official and tell lies about my flying. Jim and Jason are starting a movement to get ARCA club members fired up and are having some success here in Austin.

Got me off my behind anyway. Hey! I have an old MVVS 40 with the stock muffler, how long do you think I'd be allowed to run that?

Hope to join the fun,
Stan D.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/12/2006 6:08 PM   
gunfighter


 

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quote:

I have an old MVVS 40 with the stock muffler, how long do you think I'd be allowed to run that?


Ordinarily, I would say 1 race! (or until you win a race) However, this month there is no engine claim rule.

Bring "something" to fly (with a .40) I'm sure you will have a blast!

If you are in a bind - I have an LA racer and a couple of 'raiders "squirelled away" for hard times. they are getting very hard to find as they become more popular as a racer and general sport plane.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/12/2006 7:30 PM   
dwbebens


 

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Status: offline 		We are having another Club 40 race here in north-central Florida at the Gainsville club's Archer field on Nov 18, '06. I am so looking forward to this race.

One airplane only -- Skyraider Mk II - STOCK - STOCK - STOCK !!!!!

One engine only -- OS 40 LA - STOCK - STOCK - STOCK !!!!!!

Any prop

Two pole 600' course

Flying start

AMA Req'd



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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/12/2006 8:38 PM   
gunfighter


 

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Status: offline 		Stan - Welcome to the "'raider-racer group".

Before you buy that mid star - just want you to understand that most of the flying (racing) around here is limited to the sky raider or LA racer. This month, we are allowing any "non-AMA quickie legal" plane with a .40 to run with the raiders/racers. But that is only this month. When we start racing again in the spring, we will be back to raiders and racers only (unless the group votes for a change)

Looking forward to meeting you on Saturday.

Chuck W.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/12/2006 10:55 PM   
DonStegall


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gunfighter

If you are in a bind - I have an LA racer and a couple of 'raiders "squirelled away" for hard times. they are getting very hard to find as they become more popular as a racer and general sport plane.


I have plenty of both the Sky Raider Mach II and the LA Racer 40 in stock. I have custom boxes on the way so I can ship them with a little extra protection. Buy from your local hobby shop if possible, and use me as a secondary source.

I have worked with AirBorne Models to make sure the supply of Sky Raiders Mach II ARF kits are readily available. They are even doing a run of Sky Raider Mach II ARF kits in solid colors. I don't know what colors, but I am first in line.

I let Jimmy Katz fly one of my LA Racers last weekend. It was scary as Jimmy holds nothing back, and 6 to 10 feet off the ground had me thinking that a glitch was going to be costly. After Jimmy wrung it out on a virtual pylon course, he took it up and wrung it out aerobatically. His comment ... "This gets back to the days of the Spickler Quickie, plus the plane does great aerobatics." For those who don't know, Jimmy Katz was one of the guys that led the pack in the move to long wings in FAI. He was a very accomplished racer in the 80's and into the 90's.

I personally like the looks of the LA Racer better, mainly because of the covering. But some much more experienced racers/fliers than myself have flown my Sky Raider Mach II's and LA Racer's and like the Mach II better. I'm not sure what it is, but I have a theory. The Sky Raider Mach II has a single servo and because of the control horn setup, there is a little differential aileron throw. The LA Racer with control horns has no differential. Some guys actually do think they fly better upside down as well.

I am having a ball taking these planes out and letting people see how much fun entry level pylon racing can be.



< Message edited by DonStegall -- 11/12/2006 10:57 PM >

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/13/2006 12:01 AM   
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Status: offline 		Now there is a name I haven't seen in some time - Jimmy Katz. Yes, he was the next to adapt high aspect wings with his semi-scale DeHavilland designs for .15 quarter midget and FAI after seeing my Stinger the year before. I don't remember if he was exposed at the SLO race in California or the Nats in Virginia Beach, but he got the concept early. His wings tapered out to about the thickness of paper and were a bit fragile (prone to damage on bad landings), but really carved through turns. After Jim validated the concept, the USA FAI team went 1-2-3-4 at the next world's.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/13/2006 4:55 PM   
DHG


 

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/13/2006 5:07 PM   
daven



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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/14/2006 7:18 PM   
DonStegall


 

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Status: offline 		When you guys put an OS 40 LA on one of these planes, what do you do to get them to balance? They balance just right with a TT Pro 40 on them and that is 3-4 ounces heavier than the LA.

I'm going to set one or more up with LA's and I want to steal somebody's method. Pictures please.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/15/2006 12:05 AM   
dwbebens


 

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Status: offline 		Don, were you asking me how we balance the Skyraider Mk II when using the OS 40 LA?

Anyway, if you were;

I put the four servos in the middle of the wing area. I put the receiver ahead of the servos. I put the battery (four AA cells) in the front under the fuel tank. I also use an aluminum beam type motor mount and a large brass acorn type nut to hold the prop on. This nut fits under the spinner. The plane then balances right on and flies very well.

Doug Bebensee

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/15/2006 1:21 AM   
DonStegall


 

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Status: offline 		Doug,

Thanks. That is what I was asking. I thought about using a brass nut, but the Dubro nuts I have would not fit under the spinner, and I would have to forego the spinner. The brass nuts like the Higley Heavy Hub at 2 ounces and especially the Dubro at 3 ounces would get close. I didn't think that moving the battery pack under the tank would make enough of a difference, but that shows what I know.

Bob,

I thought you were one of the first to do long wings. That's why I said "one of the guys that led the pack ..."

Jimmy Katz is a hoot. He has a ton of practical jokes. He pulled one on me at the field a couple of weekends ago. I just kind of faded away, brushed it off, and came back and pulled one of mine on him. Talk about a sense of accomplishment.

Jimmy now admits that he has been "really wrong about two things in modeling". One was that electrics would never be anything he would do. The other was that "If you ever see me flying an ARF, just shoot me". These comments were made years ago. He was flying his Hanger 9 Funtana X over the past few weeks and loving it. He also got the guys at Charlotte Aeromodelers into a little electric foamie called the Drenalyn ( aka "The Bob" ). Send me your mailing address via private message or email and I'll send you a DVD with Jimmy involved in some hilarious electric combat.

Jimmy has been involved in just about every discipline in model aviation, all the way down to Peanut scale free flight. He's really into woodworking as well. He uses one of my father's inventions on his router and routing table. You can see it at Router Depth Gauge. I use the gauge on my Dremel router and it's really convenient. The cost is a little high, but it works well. Jimmy says he uses his all the time.

BTW, I'm getting KitPlanes again. Did you see the picture of the real AR-6 Endeavor with the cowl off? I had no idea the shaft extension was SOOO long. I wonder if shaft extensions are doable on Q-40's and how a 1" to 1.25" spinner would work.


< Message edited by DonStegall -- 11/15/2006 1:26 AM >

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/15/2006 5:21 AM   
Ken Erickson



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Status: offline 		The Skyraider balances for aerobatics with an LA 40 by building it just as the book says. I use an 11 X 4 APC.

It balances for us for racing with a 2-oz. Brass hub. That hub fits under the spinner. That is enough to make the thing nose-heavy. Of course, I have very little control movement on low rates. Flies smoothly. Haven't even gone to exponential, but I probably should.

That is how it has been working for us.

Ken Erickson


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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/17/2006 4:45 AM   
HighPlains


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Don,

I've saw the Nemesis taken down after flying a demo at a California air show a few years back. It was amazing to see the propeller mounted on a spool that place it about a foot away from the end of the crankshaft. Some homebuilt airplanes like Van's RV series used short spools (up to 4") to soften the nose of the airplane when fitted with wood props. On the Formula One designs, they are turning a small diameter prop at close to 4000 rpm with props either wood or composite. So I guess the loads are manageable for the short term, especially considering the limited use of that type of aircraft.

What many may not know about the Nemesis was that it was hauled to races in a cargo trailer, and to load it required it to be taken apart. However, the wing and fuselage are built as one piece to eliminate any air leakage (because of the drag any air leakage would create). So the fuselage splits in half right behind the cockpit and wing. Must use about two dozen flat head screws (bolts) to attach the back end of the airplane with the tail feathers to the front section. The cowl, prop and spinner were also removed to load the airplane to fit into the width of the trailer.

I went up late this afternoon to steer the ground around in a Cessna. One of those days that was completely overcast, but the air smooth as glass.

I would have made the same statements about electric a few years ago, having test flown a number of the early lead sleds. But battery technology is progressing at an accelerating rate. Nano technology when applied to batteries will really surprise people with what is possible.

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/17/2006 12:17 PM   
Electriceddie



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LOL

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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 11/19/2006 8:25 PM   
gomil


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Guys,
I am from the Ocala Florida area. We fly the Sky raider in the Club 40 races. This past saturday the 18 0f november we had 35 entries.
A few questions if I may askthem of you.
Do you charge entry fees and do you race for prize money.
We have six clubs participating with races at each one of the club fields.
We use the OS LA 40.
Do you guys check engines to make sure they are box stock.
We charge Three dollars per entry to cover the cost of fuel COOL POWER 15%
we can use any prop.
Gomil@comcast.net

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