RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout  
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RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 12/27/2006 4:33:16 AM   
Ken Erickson



Posts: 308
Joined: 12/17/2005
From: Columbus, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Edited to reflect changes.

Our South Central Texas schedule (dates the Prop Busters will hold a race if no one else wants that month).

The racing schedule for 2007 has been re-scheduled. There were too many conflicts.

We really believe the schedule is:

April 7th - Prop Busters Field (Date Change)
May 19th - Tri-City Field by Seguin
June 16th - Prop Busters Field
July 21st - Location to be announced
August 18th - Prop Busters Field
September 22nd - Location to be announced (Date Change)
October 20th - Location to be announced
November 17th - Prop Busters Field

The May race will be at the Seguin field of the Tri-City club. We are holding dates for some of the other clubs in the area. Hope to have this nailed down by March 6th. Flyers will be made and posted.

Ken Erickson
San Antonio, TX

< Message edited by Ken Erickson -- 1/7/2007 5:06:50 AM >

(in reply to Ken Erickson)
       Post #: 76

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 12/27/2006 2:09:07 PM   
dwbebens


 

Posts: 216
Joined: 4/25/2005
From: Dickson, TN, USA
Status: online 		Don, Ken, Gunfighter;

I think we have a good entry level class going now.

Specifying the two airframes, the Skyraider Mk II and the LA Racer, is an excellent idea from both a performance and cost basis.

It is probably a good idea to allow for some MINOR engine variations to accomodate local preferrences, as long as they are low cost sport engines with the stock sport mufflers that come with the engine. For a person who would travel to another race where a dfferent engine is used, he would only have to change engine and maybe motor mount. My opinion is that the OS 40 LA should be the "baseline" engine for the class. But, if there was a race within driving distance, I myself would certainly upgrade to an inexpensive BB sport engine in order to participate.

I would STRENUOUSLY disagree with any attempt to include, allow, or promote the use of the Jett, Nelson, or other some such high performance engines for the Club 40 class! Also, use of these engines WILL require that the airframes be modifiied to make them surdy enough. It is my firm opinion that we MUST prevent the "speed creep" which escalates and eventually destroys all such "entry-level" events. If someone wants more speed, then there are already five excellent events (424, 428, 422, F3D, F5D) to satisfy them, no matter how fast they want to go. We MUST keep this class of racing true the the original intent - - that is: a fun, stable, novice friendly, and inexpensive event which will attract new people to the sport o pylon racing.

From my experiences racing with the Florida Club 40 group and talking with these racers, I've found no one who wants to engage in any kind of "speed escalation war". They seem to like it just the way it is. The organizers and promoters of these Florida races are vigorous in their oversight of these races. They don't want anyone messing with their rules. It is obviously working - - we have 30+ at most races! I am delighted with the way they run their races.

Anyway everyone, keep up the good work promoting Club 40 in your areas.

Doug Bebensee


(in reply to Ken Erickson)
       Post #: 77

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 12/27/2006 6:13:03 PM   
DonStegall


 

Posts: 625
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ken Erickson

Will World Model Company be able to keep up with the demand???????


Yes. They can make as many as we can use up. The supply chain is the key. AirBorne Models, the US distributor, is well aware of what is going on with Club 40. The big issue is stock balancing. They have to keep a lot of planes in stock. They like most companies have storage and budget constraints. But The World Models Company can produce any quantity that we need.

Most people like to support the local hobby shops. Getting them to keep Sky Raider Mach II or LA Racer 40 ARF kits in stock is one of the keys to keeping the supply lines full. Both come in boxes of 4 for most efficient shipping. Since there are 4 color schemes for both of the models, a dealer can order a selection of colors and get efficient shipping costs. A hobby shop that can’t afford to place an order for 4 Sky Raider Mach II kits either has a very tight budget or concerns about moving them. Same with the LA Racer 40.

The people involved in Club 40 racing can help by buying in advance. Even if Club 40 goes away (and I don’t think that is likely), the planes are excellent sport planes. Everyone should have two ready to fly at the minimum. Plus buying one or two in advance means that you have your own supply for the inevitable need for a replacement. And if the local hobby shop runs out of stock, the Club 40 enthusiasts can provide a backup supply to newcomers or fellow racers.

I keep both in stock. Right now I have 4 Raiders and 3 Racers in stock that are unopened. I will be keeping a good supply on hand because I need them for the RCPRO Pylon Road Show. I will be ordering a big batch of Raiders when the solid color ones arrive in the US. My goal is not to be in the mail order business, but I have a lot of confidence in Club 40 and that any planes I have on hand will be used or sold.

Regarding the “Gold” class …

One thing I have run into locally is that a number of people don’t want to buy .40 size engines. The perception is that the .40 engines are obsoleted by the predominant .46 engines. Plus people want to use what they already have. Demonstrations and just taking out the Club 40 planes with BB .40 engines helps familiarize people with the power they put out. I usually run 9x6 props because the .40’s wind up and sound impressive.

The other issue that Gold could address is mufflers and exhaust systems. It seems that people get irritated by the stock mufflers that come with the sport .40 engines. Many lose muffler parts and replacement muffler parts cost as much as half of what a new engine costs. Even sport pilots have gotten used to the convenience and performance gain of the Performance Specialties and JETT-STREAM mufflers that don’t come apart.

There are also fans of four-stroke engines that have asked about using them.

I’m working on organizing some races locally and I have to make a decision about how to handle the aforementioned issues.

But perhaps it is better to stick with a limited and simple specification.

_____________________________

Don Stegall
RCPRO - http://www.rcpro.org - http://www.rcpylon.com

(in reply to dwbebens)
       Post #: 78

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 12/27/2006 10:13:22 PM   
DonStegall


 

Posts: 625
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline 		BIG NEWS for Sky Raider Mach II Fans

The solid white and solid yellow Sky Raider Mach II ARF kits arrived at AirBorne Models today.

I am ordering some and should have them in within a week or two. You can order them directly from AirBorne, or you can get your local hobby shop to order some.

_____________________________

Don Stegall
RCPRO - http://www.rcpro.org - http://www.rcpylon.com

(in reply to DonStegall)
       Post #: 79

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 1/6/2007 7:15:55 PM   
stand-RCU


 

Posts: 62
Joined: 12/28/2001
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		We are adding a racing calendar to the NMPRA website. I'm still messing with it and have a seperate calendar for each district, the NATS and Club 40 racing. You can view all the calendars together. I took the liberty of adding in the sched from the SA Prop Busters into the club 40 schedule.

Anyone can submit a race and it will appear in the calendar when one of the admin's or the calendar owner approves it. You add an entry by clicking on the + sign. You navigate the calendar by selecting week, month or year dates and clicking "Go" down towards the bottom. There's a help function if you click on the ? image.

At the NMPRA site the calendar is accessed on the left under the Scheduled Events pull down NMPRA Web Site. There you can access "All Calendars or the individual ones.

I would appreciate any comments,

Stan

_____________________________

It is sometimes better to be interesting than exact.

(in reply to DonStegall)
       Post #: 80

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 1/6/2007 8:52:01 PM   
dwbebens


 

Posts: 216
Joined: 4/25/2005
From: Dickson, TN, USA
Status: online 		I think this calendar on the NMPRA site that Stand-RCU talks about is an excellent idea. Thank you for doing this for us.

Doug Bebensee

(in reply to stand-RCU)
       Post #: 81

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 2/8/2007 1:54:09 PM   
dwbebens


 

Posts: 216
Joined: 4/25/2005
From: Dickson, TN, USA
Status: online 		An up-date on the perceived balance problem when using the OS 40 LA on the Skyraider Mk II - -

A new-to-Club-40 flying friend of mine and I have been experimenting with CG position. We have found that the plane flies just fine having the CG even as far back as 4" from the LE. We did find that we had to reduce elevator throw to only +/- 5mm with -30% expo (Futaba) for racing.

As a secondary note, I've had a good bit of success recruiting some our sport pilots into Club 40. I've been flying and practicing with my Mk II with the OS 40 LA at our local field since early fall 2006. One person eventually became interested enough to buy a plane and engine. He's been flying and practicing with me for a number of weeks now. I've been advising him and answering all his questions. I have taken him under-my-wing so-to-speak. I've been telling him everything I know about pylon racing as it pertains to Club 40 racing in order to get him up-to-speed and thus insure that he has a good first experience. We hold pretend races for practice, including the flying start. He has become VERY enthusiastic (and proficient). He has strongly influenced two other prominent flyers in our group to go into Club 40. Just the other day, they went out and bought Mk II's and OS 40 LA's! The three of them intend to go to our first race of the season on Feb 24 in Ocala. Now I notice that others are expressing interest by asking a lot of questions, coming around to look at our planes, coming out with us when we practice to watch, and even being "pylon judges" for us!!!!

This just illustrates how effective the efforts of even one person can be toward promoting Club 40 racing. I wasn't on a big high-pressure campaign at my local flying field to promote racing. I did make it know that I was flying pylon again. I would tell people (who seemed receptive) where and when I was attending a race, and then later how I did at that race. I went out every weekend and flew my pylon planes in a safe, non-threatening manner. I took the time to answered ALL questions. I flew my pylon planes around simulated (imaginary) pylons or at times around actual pylons (during lulls in the sport flying). After a while, various people gravitated toward me with questions at first and then, when I didn't scare them away, actions. Each of us pylon flyers is an ambassador for pylon racing, whether we intend it to be so or not. We need be approachable, courteous, and fly our planes safely. We must be carefull to not intimidate the potential pylon newbie who may be in the backgound just watching, thinking, and considering his options. Then, when he does express interest, answer his questions, show him what he wants, all without letting your enthusiasm smother or otherwise turn-him-off.

It's funny how things work out. All I originally intended to talk about in this message was CG positions for the Mk II.

Doug Bebensee

< Message edited by dwbebens -- 2/8/2007 1:55:21 PM >

(in reply to dwbebens)
       Post #: 82

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 2/8/2007 2:27:49 PM   
gunfighter


 

Posts: 646
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Great post Doug! You hit the nail on the head. No high pressure sales needed, just fly and have fun and others will follow.
We started with 1 club and 5 pilots at the first race. Now we are scrambling to get enough weekends for all the clubs that are interested!
The only hard part is ensuring that all courses comply with the safety code when holding races.

(in reply to dwbebens)
       Post #: 83

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 2/9/2007 11:23:54 PM   
Ken Erickson



Posts: 308
Joined: 12/17/2005
From: Columbus, IN, USA
Status: offline 		As usuall Doug hits the nail right on the head.

People wonder what it will take to have a generally accepted "beginner" pylon event. This just might be it. The Skyraider is a great plane for "a second plane". It is very inexpensive. It is very well built. The engines are available and also inexpensive.

Those who see how great this equipment is (I let almost anyone "sport" fly mine), want to have one. When they "play" with a few turns around the pylons, a lot of them think it is great fun.

As gunfighter says, we have a growing event here is South Central Texas. This year we planned to have 8 races, one a month, April to November. We started out thinking they might all be at the same club, where wqe started last year. We now have 5 clubs hosting. Schedule is almost locked:

April 7 - SAPB, South of San Antonio
May 19 - Tri-City, Seguine, TX
June16 - SAPB, South of San Antonio
July 21 - ARCA, Austin, TX
August 18 - SAPB, South of San Antonio, TX
September 22 - Probably River City Club, Just South of Randolph AFB, San Antonio, TX
October 20 - Probably Medina Valley, West of San Antonio
November 17 - SAPB, South of San Antonio

Last year, in November, we had a participant from Houston .

If you can, come play with us.

Ken Erickson
San Antonio, TX

(in reply to dwbebens)
       Post #: 84

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 2/13/2007 12:21:33 PM   
DonStegall


 

Posts: 625
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Monroe, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ken Erickson

People wonder what it will take to have a generally accepted "beginner" pylon event. This just might be it. The Skyraider is a great plane for "a second plane". It is very inexpensive. It is very well built. The engines are available and also inexpensive.

Those who see how great this equipment is (I let almost anyone "sport" fly mine), want to have one. When they "play" with a few turns around the pylons, a lot of them think it is great fun.


Ken,

I believe part of the formula for success that we are experiencing is "I let almost anyone "sport" fly mine". So many people have flown my Sky Raider Mach II and LA Racer 40 planes that I can't even keep count. Any reasonably competent pilot finds them completely non-threatening. And since the airframe only costs $70, they don't feel threatened by the replacement cost either.

This past weekend I let a young guy (20's) who is an IMAC competitor fly the Sky Raider. I was going to pack up and leave, but he (Jimmy Ritch) got such a kick out of flying the plane, that I stayed a while longer. He said "This is a sweet flying plane. Can I fly it how I want too?". I said go for it. Before long he was hovering and torque rolling it. I couldn't believe what he was doing with the plane. And it had an APC 9x6 on it. I'm sure that with something like a 10x5, 11x4, or 12.25x3.75 he could do even more with it. He did the complete IMAC series with it. Rolling circles, etc.

He and another guy came back to my house to try 3 pole pylon racing. I put the plane togther and put the LA Racer on quick charge. He flew the Mach II on the course and I showed him a little technique for getting around the course. He picked it up quickly and thought it was a rush. The Mach II had been flown so many times that it needed a quick charge. So I went up to the house and got the LA Racer. We flew it a little while and the Mach II peaked. Then we raced. He thought it was a hoot.

Both guys went home with yellow Sky Raider Mach II's. On Sunday, racing with Sky Raiders was the buzz at the field.

The only challenge I faced is that some people don't want to buy .40 engines. So I told them to put them together with the .46's they already have, and we will have an "Outlaw" class for the first race or two. Some of the guys want to start with OS .40 LA engines because they found the speed more managable and comfortable.

Jimmy was excited and he lives a little over an hour from here in Conover, NC. I'm sure that his enthusiasm for the plane and racing will get spread to his area. All in all, a great weekend.


< Message edited by DonStegall -- 2/14/2007 12:28:52 PM >

_____________________________

Don Stegall
RCPRO - http://www.rcpro.org - http://www.rcpylon.com

(in reply to Ken Erickson)
       Post #: 85

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 2/14/2007 5:07:40 PM   
Stand



Posts: 94
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		It depends on who is flying, what prop is being used, which engine is used and how the engine was broken in.
And did I mention, who is flying?



Stan D>

_____________________________

The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some interesting ideas!

(in reply to F1race79)
       Post #: 86

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 2/21/2007 10:53:01 PM   
averen



Posts: 105
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Austin, TX,
Status: offline 		Add another one to the Austin group!

I'm getting ready to pickup the Raider, or Mach II, haven't decided which yet, I like how the Raider looks, but I know they perform about the same.

Anyways, I've been flying for a while now, mainly helis and gliders (just put my first nitro plane together for X-Mas...but I've flown a LOT of electric). I want to go the "expert" route, mainly because the BB engines are about the same price as the bushed engines, and I would rather have a better engine for the future or whatever. However, I'm a little worried about getting my you-know-what handed to me in the expert class since I've never done the pylon racing before. So does it seem like the difference between novice and expert is more pilot skill? Or is it just 2 different engine classes?

Thanks!
Jared

_____________________________

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study hard...BE EVIL!

(in reply to Stand)
       Post #: 87

RE: Club 40 Racing Hangout - 2/22/2007 12:11:41 AM   
gunfighter


 

Posts: 646
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Jared,

Welcome to the "addiction"!!

The difference in classes is more than just the engine. Pilot skill is much more important than speed in these races. Learning how to fly the course and be just outside the pylons is the fastest way to success. In several races, a slower plane won the day just because he was flying a tighter course.

In that light, I would suggest a pilot which is new to pylon start in the Novice class for several reasons.

1. Novice class flys with 3 planes at a time instead of 4. It is a little less intimidating and will get you used to flying with multiple planes.
2. The speed is a little slower allowing the new pilot to learn how to fly the course with a little more "reaction time".
3. While the Novice class is flying a heat, the Advanced pilots are available to act as a coach and / caller. This is a BIG advantage and will help you get into the groove faster.
4. Unless you are a "Natural" and pick up the course very quickly, you will get beaten quite regularly in the Advanced class. We have some excellent and VERY experienced pilots in that class!

An example of the learning curve: At our first race the fast time was about 2:36 - the average time was well into the 2:40's. At out last race of last season, the fast time was1:23 and the average time was around 1:40. Same planes / same engines/ Same course. The difference is learning to fly a tight course.

If you are concerned about buying a new bushing engine, I'm sure that Ken will jump in here soon and tell you about the "loaner" program we have. You can "rent" a Novice class engine from him for next to nothing and run it for the entire season.
Hope this helps a bit.

Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions. chuckstt@gvtc.com

What part of Austin are you in. Have you flown at the ARCA field? There are several racers there and they will be in the circuit this year.

Chuck W.
AKA - "Gunfighter"

(in reply to averen)