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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/22/2012 3:54 AM   
DSW


 

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From: Oviedo, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hello All,

Doing a google seach, I stubled across this thread on the Utter Kaos, as I am considering finishing my original Bridi Utter Kao 60 kit that has been framed up for 20+ years and never completed. I was planning on using a Rossi 40 with a tuned pipe as the power plant for this plane. I'm wondering is this Rossi 40 will provide enough power to pull this Utter Kaos 60. I've framed it up as a tail dragger, and was planning on using a couple mini servos for the alerons. Any input would be appreciated.

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/22/2012 11:13 AM   
Falcon6667



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Status: offline 		No on the 40. You need a 60. You don't need a pipe on it. The 40 is just not going to get it done. Also with the long tail moment you'll need the extra weight of the 60 to help balance it.Or as most Sr Patern guys use a 90 4st. That gives you lots of power. rember your looking for power, not speed.
Keep us posted.......
Falcon

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/22/2012 11:16 AM   
ChiefK



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Status: offline 		Rained out again..... it sure is hard to wait when you've got a new Kaos 60 ready to go!.

Next project, a new GP Dirty Birdy (UPS says delivery tomorrow) and I also dug out an ancient WK Hobbies Tiporare original 80's kit I started then and never finished. Since The Tipo is not "legal" for SPA, I'm putting the retracts in, Prettner (Curare) style flaps, and an OS .75AX up front.

ChiefK

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/22/2012 12:35 PM   
Falcon6667



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefK

Rained out again..... it sure is hard to wait when you've got a new Kaos 60 ready to go!.

Next project, a new GP Dirty Birdy (UPS says delivery tomorrow) and I also dug out an ancient WK Hobbies Tiporare original 80's kit I started then and never finished. Since The Tipo is not ''legal'' for SPA, I'm putting the retracts in, Prettner (Curare) style flaps, and an OS .75AX up front.

ChiefK

Really interested in the "rtf"You got coming. Keep me in the loop. I am hung up time wise for a good flyer for this year. I hung mt 60 Kaos up. An didn't finish the 60 dirty bird kit. Soooooooo. I need one
Falcon

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/22/2012 3:20 PM   
ChiefK



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Status: offline 		Falcon,

There have been a lot of people saying they ordered one of these or were going to order one. I'll certainly let you know what I think, but you'll probably hear lots of opinions starting real soon. What happened to the Kaos 60 build that you were doing?

Greg

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/22/2012 3:51 PM   
Falcon6667



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ORIGINAL: ChiefK

Falcon,

There have been a lot of people saying they ordered one of these or were going to order one. I'll certainly let you know what I think, but you'll probably hear lots of opinions starting real soon. What happened to the Kaos 60 build that you were doing?

Greg

I put it on hold to do the DB,So I have unfinished projects. Next winters really getting filled up.I also have a 60 stick scratch built for pratice& antique patern.
An a new project redoing a 71 cj5 for day run around ...
Hoping to get the Tauros is the air in a few days.
Falcon

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/22/2012 7:41 PM   
EscapeFlyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefK

Rained out again..... it sure is hard to wait when you've got a new Kaos 60 ready to go!.

ChiefK



Same here! Raining...

Brian

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/22/2012 11:52 PM   
DSW


 

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Status: offline 		Bridi Utter Kaos 60, what is the smallest Hitec servos I should use?
I was thinking about these for each control function.

Dual Aleron Servos: HS 85BB 18 sec 37 ox torq
Elevator: HS 225BB 14 sec 56 oz torq
Rudder/Tail Wheel: HS 225BB 14 sec 56 oz torq
Throttle: HS 65HB 14 sec 25 oz torq

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/23/2012 2:00 AM   
EscapeFlyer



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Status: offline 		At minimum I wouldn't suggest anything less than a standard servo all around.

Like these:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDEL7&P=0

At 6 volts, it will center a lot better. These are not Ball Bearing servos either.

Brian

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/23/2012 6:44 AM   
doxilia



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DSW

Bridi Utter Kaos 60, what is the smallest Hitec servos I should use?
I was thinking about these for each control function.

Dual Aleron Servos: HS 85BB 18 sec 37 ox torq
Elevator: HS 225BB 14 sec 56 oz torq
Rudder/Tail Wheel: HS 225BB 14 sec 56 oz torq
Throttle: HS 65HB 14 sec 25 oz torq

DSW,

The 65 is a very nice servo but I wouldn't "waste" it on throttle. Use an 82 or 85 on it. For the ailerons, some may have used 85's on 60 size models but I wouldn't on anything larger than a 35 size model. Besides, they are ok but not the best centering servos so I would say no. The 225's are a nice and inexpensive option there. For elevator and rudder, go with standard size. Something like the 485HB's would complement the 225's.

Of course, there are also digitals...

David

PS Keep the piped Rossi 40 for something like a DB40. There are many low cost 60's to be had for the Chaos.

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/23/2012 12:13 PM   
ChiefK



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Status: offline 		Next weekend is looking really good for a "maiden". Camera will be charged up - I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

ChiefK

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/29/2012 6:57 PM   
ChiefK



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefK

Next weekend is looking really good for a ''maiden''. Camera will be charged up - I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

ChiefK


It's DONE. First flight was completely uneventful (except the engine idle was too fast and as a result, the landing was a bit HOT)! Anybody know how to get a Perry carb to idle low and cut off when closed? Engine is a vintage Kraft .61 which I bought new (early 80's) and it came with the Perry carb. Three flights today. Grey skies, a 3-4mph crosswind. Doing strings of rolls, 4-point rolls, slow rolls, spins, loops, stall-turns, etc. Doesn't look like it has any bad habits. I'm a happy camper and it was definitely worth the wait.

ChiefK

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/29/2012 8:05 PM   
Falcon6667



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefK

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefK

Next weekend is looking really good for a ''maiden''. Camera will be charged up - I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

ChiefK


It's DONE. First flight was completely uneventful (except the engine idle was too fast and as a result, the landing was a bit HOT)! Anybody know how to get a Perry carb to idle low and cut off when closed? Engine is a vintage Kraft .61 which I bought new (early 80's) and it came with the Perry carb. Three flights today. Grey skies, a 3-4mph crosswind. Doing strings of rolls, 4-point rolls, slow rolls, spins, loops, stall-turns, etc. Doesn't look like it has any bad habits. I'm a happy camper and it was definitely worth the wait.

ChiefK

>>>>>>>>>>OUTSTANDING<<<<<<<<<<<
Yes on the perry. Remove the carb from moter,place it on a flat service,(like a anvel)take a 2 to 5 lb. hammer,rase hammer above your head,with a firm even stroke, I had one on a st, an still do when you get it to do one thing it wont do the other.Look into maybe a OS carb.Just a thought.
great job on the first flight...
Falcon

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/29/2012 8:39 PM   
EscapeFlyer



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Status: offline 		Regarding the Perry Carb...

My Perry Carb works flawlessly... Good transition, immediate transitions without any hesitation. It come straight back to idle.

How does this help you? It doesn't, other than to reassure you it isn't always the equipment.

Is the idle screw set to tight? How is the O-ring at the intake? Is your throttle rod a golden rod or woven metal cable set up? If it is, is there any binding at any sharp angles?

Is it the position of the throttle arm on the carberator?

Just some questions. None intended to be condescending. My perry carb wasn't returning to idle well at first either. I found that I had too much bind from the location the woven rod entered its sleeve on the throttle servo side. I removed the bind and it operated perfectly.

Brian

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/29/2012 9:27 PM   
ChiefK



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Status: offline 		Thanks for the response Brian. Your questions show me some things to look at. I can tell you that I used a braided metal cable, with wire ends where the nylon tubing ends to make the throttle pushrod. It works smoothly. The barrel appears to be fully shut at extreme low throttle, and wide open at high throttle, but the engine will not stop. It continues to run until I clamp the fuel tubing. I realize that there must be some air getting to the engine from somewhere. I'm considering ordering a new carb from RJL, but I'll follow through on your suggestions first.

Greg

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/30/2012 5:16 PM   
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Status: offline 		Still looks great Chief. Great pics.

Joe

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/30/2012 5:56 PM   
ChiefK



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Status: offline 		Thanks Joe... it was a real blast to fly. I took out my Intruder as well, but it just sat there while the Kaos got a workout. Now working on the new HH Dirty Birdy ARF. Might be ready to fly next weekend.

Greg

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/30/2012 6:59 PM   
EscapeFlyer



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Status: offline 		Great news! Mine flies too! Like so many above.. No issues at all! 2 clicks of right rudder and 2 clicks of right aileron and it was straight as an arrow. I am happy! Retracts were flawless!

Brian



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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 4/30/2012 8:00 PM   
Falcon6667



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiefK

Thanks Joe... it was a real blast to fly. I took out my Intruder as well, but it just sat there while the Kaos got a workout. Now working on the new HH Dirty Birdy ARF. Might be ready to fly next weekend.

Greg

What great looking birds! You have really got a great looking paint scheme!
Cant help but envy the guy under your pic, look at the flying sight>>>>>>>paved runway<<<<<<
Falcon

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 5/1/2012 2:31 PM   
turbo.gst


 

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Status: offline 		One thing to check on a Perry Carb( especially an older one) is the o-rings. When all is right, the Perry is a very good carb that offers excellent idle, transition, and power. The only problems can be the o-rings and the fact that the idle disc is pretty sensitive. Overall, it is a fairly easy carb to master.

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 5/1/2012 10:29 PM   
DSW


 

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Status: offline 		Question concerning aileron servo's. I am considering using dual aleron servo's. but I was thinking I'd just place both of them in the wing center section, side-by-side and still use the aileron control rods. Any disadvantage to this set up?

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 5/1/2012 11:07 PM   
EscapeFlyer



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Status: offline 		DSW-

Don't be surprised if you hear the majority of people suggest to you that Aileron Torque Rods are flimsy, wallows out the torque rod glue joint in the aileron, etc, etc. After completeing my Super Kaos, my deepest regret is putting the servos in the outer wing panels. I wish would have done exactly as you suggested. This will decrease some of the area in the wing box in the fuse. To me, it would have been worth the hassle. It would clean up the wing as well.

If it is done right, like everything else in life, it will work just fine.

Go for it. I will be doing the exact same thing on my Escape.

Brian

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 5/2/2012 12:30 AM   
Falcon6667



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes

DSW-

Don't be surprised if you hear the majority of people suggest to you that Aileron Torque Rods are flimsy, wallows out the torque rod glue joint in the aileron, etc, etc. After completeing my Super Kaos, my deepest regret is putting the servos in the outer wing panels. I wish would have done exactly as you suggested. This will decrease some of the area in the wing box in the fuse. To me, it would have been worth the hassle. It would clean up the wing as well.

If it is done right, like everything else in life, it will work just fine.

Go for it. I will be doing the exact same thing on my Escape.

Brian

Years ago this is the way it was done, An I still like it for the clean look it gives the wing.
Falcon

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 5/2/2012 3:36 AM   
EscapeFlyer



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Status: offline 		Interestingly enough... upon speaking to a professional builder out east of renown name, I am not so bent to keep torque rods. There are better ways to install aileron servos than installing them vertically as I did.

If one were to install a modern small servos in the outer panels... ones with plenty of speed and power, you won't gain weight and there will be such little drag on the wing, no one would notice it.

I reverse my statement somewhat because I just spent an hour on the phone with this gentleman helping me understand the benefit over the torque rod system. It is a more positive mechanical setup. I like the clean look the torque rods give though.


I am considering these as aileron, elevator, and rudder servos on my next Bridi Escape project. Lightweight, strong, fast... affordable.
http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-225bb_mighty_mini.html

If money is not an issue...
http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-5245mg_digital_mini.html

Brian

< Message edited by Ilikebipes -- 5/2/2012 4:21 AM >

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RE: KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO - 5/2/2012 5:09 AM   
doxilia



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Status: online 		Brian,

Glad you saw the light... I was going to mention that one can "conceal" the servos even if in outer panels.

Nothing like a chat with Mr. G!

BTW, the 225's are great for ailerons as far as analogs go. I'd use something different on elevator and rudder, especially the latter.

David

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