RE: OXAI announced new Zeque

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque
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RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/22/2006 4:12:20 PM

MHester

Posts: 2492
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: online

Just a question of opinion, I've built a few ZN and PL kits. I really don't like them at all. Some people rave about them, that's fine. I just don't like the construction.

Yep they won the worlds and all that, but that doesn't mean much to me personally. I'm not planning on competing in the world championship any time real soon LOL I know they fly well, not disputing that one. I simply prefer something else. Especially if I have to build it

the same logic could be applied to my plane vs the one you fly. $500 vs $1500. "Sure you have to build it but..."

It's all a matter of degrees, opinion, depth of pocket book, how much your time is worth to you, how bad you want the latest and greatest.......vs what your intentions are with the plane.

Ahh well, that's why we have choices! I wish we had more, personally.

-Mike

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Post #: 26

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/22/2006 5:04:56 PM

can773

Posts: 1663
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHester

Just a question of opinion, I've built a few ZN and PL kits. I really don't like them at all. Some people rave about them, that's fine. I just don't like the construction.
.

-Mike

Care to elaborate on what you dont like?

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Chad Northeast

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Post #: 27

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/22/2006 5:15:03 PM

bla bla

Posts: 1580
Joined: 9/19/2002
From: Oslo, NORWAY
Status: offline

Yep, these Oxai planes cost mucho, but looking at the pictures, the finishing is just State of the Art.
The quality underneath must be just as good. Imagine the hours of work to design, prototype, tool up, build, finish, pack & ship etc etc. It's considerable!

Then of course theres the totally redundant middle men...(like it makes a difference if I ship a model from Germay, Japan or the USA!)
Remove them and half the price!

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Post #: 28

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/22/2006 5:27:47 PM

Colani

Posts: 21
Joined: 10/24/2004
From: ShangHai, CHINA
Status: offline

Thanks very much for all discussant, my English not good, I can't understand all reply, but, I try talk with you.

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Post #: 29

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/22/2006 5:34:35 PM

Colani

Posts: 21
Joined: 10/24/2004
From: ShangHai, CHINA
Status: offline

Yes, the canopy is same spot on both models.

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Post #: 30

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/22/2006 5:46:24 PM

Colani

Posts: 21
Joined: 10/24/2004
From: ShangHai, CHINA
Status: offline

Zeque recommend YS dingo 160-M, the engine mount see picture.

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Post #: 31

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/22/2006 8:49:57 PM

MHester

Posts: 2492
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: can773

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHester

Just a question of opinion, I've built a few ZN and PL kits. I really don't like them at all. Some people rave about them, that's fine. I just don't like the construction.
.

-Mike

Care to elaborate on what you dont like?

Simply put, I'm just not a fan of the way they sacrifice structure for weight in a lot of areas. Admittedly I haven't messed with anything post-Synergy era and haven't had my hands on a Twister. So if they've made some drastic changes, please, you elaborate

Detailed pics would be cool.

What I have seen from ZN is a flying eggshell. It's light, straight, pretty glass work, nice sheeting, and it sort of ends there. If you're planning on electrifying one, then it should make a prime candidate. Just don't bounce it around too much.

On glow versions, I've seen the false ribs loosen and wallow out the wing, the sockets break, the fuselages developing cracks from one end to another, and just generally sort of disposable and not durable. Yeah yeah I know, "I have 7034857235602947856 flights on mine and it still looks like the day it was first flown"....ok, fine. The ones I've had first hand experience with started cracking and coming apart from almost day one.

I'm not a big fan of the TAVS foam sandwich, are they still using that? Have they actually put a real false rib at the end of the tube or just that dinky scrap of lite ply?

It's just personal preference and what you want it to do. As I said, -I- don't like the ZN construction, never have, and unless it has changed, probably never will. I don't like spinach either. Or green eggs and ham.....and in my opinion, construction-wise, no they don't hold a candle to Oxai. So far. I have seen some Oxais exhibit parts of the flying egg shell syndrome too.

-Mike

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Post #: 32

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/23/2006 12:47:37 AM

bkennedy

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Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Chamblee, GA, USA
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My experience with OXAI airframes has been Fantastic. From the time I opened the crate to maiden voyage was only 5 evenings. Everyone talks about how expensive they are. Add up the cost of a ZN or PL, have it professionally built, panted, covered I think you will find the OXAI to be real value. Oh! and your time is worth something$$. The OXAI planes are very true, quick to get in the air and the finish quality is very very good and consistent. I have two identical OXAI airplanes now and after completing #2 I just copied #1 in the radio, renamed to #2 set the throws and flew, Only required 2 clicks of elevator. I can't believe how true to each other these two planes are. A fantastic experience.

Thanks OXAI-USA for bringing in these truly Awesome works of art!!

Bryan

(in reply to MHester)

Post #: 33

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/23/2006 12:52:36 AM

bkennedy

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From: Chamblee, GA, USA
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Forgot to add a picture

Thanks

Bryan

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Post #: 34

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/23/2006 1:35:24 AM

can773

Posts: 1663
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHester

Simply put, I'm just not a fan of the way they sacrifice structure for weight in a lot of areas. Admittedly I haven't messed with anything post-Synergy era and haven't had my hands on a Twister. So if they've made some drastic changes, please, you elaborate Detailed pics would be cool.

What I have seen from ZN is a flying eggshell. It's light, straight, pretty glass work, nice sheeting, and it sort of ends there. If you're planning on electrifying one, then it should make a prime candidate. Just don't bounce it around too much.

On glow versions, I've seen the false ribs loosen and wallow out the wing, the sockets break, the fuselages developing cracks from one end to another, and just generally sort of disposable and not durable. Yeah yeah I know, "I have 7034857235602947856 flights on mine and it still looks like the day it was first flown"....ok, fine. The ones I've had first hand experience with started cracking and coming apart from almost day one.

I'm not a big fan of the TAVS foam sandwich, are they still using that? Have they actually put a real false rib at the end of the tube or just that dinky scrap of lite ply?

It's just personal preference and what you want it to do. As I said, -I- don't like the ZN construction, never have, and unless it has changed, probably never will. I don't like spinach either. Or green eggs and ham.....and in my opinion, construction-wise, no they don't hold a candle to Oxai. So far. I have seen some Oxais exhibit parts of the flying egg shell syndrome too.

-Mike

Interesting, completely opposite to what I (and a lot of others) have experienced. Never seen a fuse crack, flown them with glow for lots of flights.......we have brought in around 40 kits from France in the past 4 years, I have not heard one complaint about the quality.

TAVS....ZN doest vacuum bag. False rib...dont know never had a failure and never opened up a wing to find out. Although most of my ZN stuff has been single peice wings.

Oxai's are nice, but for $4000 CND....I can buy a ZN kit, finish it in a month, and equip it with the best of the best and still have money left over

At these levels of models (twister, beryll, zeque, oxalys, etc etc etc) its all about the fingers.

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Chad Northeast

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Post #: 35

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/23/2006 7:06:16 PM

bla bla

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From: Oslo, NORWAY
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I was under the same impression, that ZN produces some of the nicest...and most affordable Formula 1 pattern kits.
Of course theres a great deal of work to be done to finish them but that doesn't seem to turn people off.
I, on the other hand have recently had very limited RC time and certainly don't want to be spending that building...as much as I love that part of the hobby, ironically.
I asked ZN the cost for them to prepare a Twister up to the paint and film ready stage. It was very expensive... at least 3x the kit price.
For that they finished and sanded the wings, stab and mounted both. Also included was an engine ready firewall and the UC blocks mounted and drilled out.
Not a lot of work but fiddley stuff sll the same. If one was to include paint and film I would guess it would be far more expensive than the OXAI.

Regarding the quality of the basic ZN product/moulding etc, from what I've whitnessed they're absolutely first class.
Some years back there was an excellent thread in this forum about factury building a ZN model. Excellent stuff.

< Message edited by bla bla -- 8/24/2006 8:41:17 AM >

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Post #: 36

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/24/2006 5:42:54 AM

dflynt

Posts: 131
Joined: 1/2/2004
From: Arlington, VA, USA
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Mike,

You remind me a lot of my father-in-law who has always been pleased with American autos because they are "built so well". They have always given him 70k-100k miles of service, and in his mind they are outstanding. However, he can always find problems with Japanese autos (he claims the steel is lower quality, and therefore they are junk), even though they typically outlast American 5-1. Example, I had a honda that I kept for 15 years, put 330k miles on it, and never once did if fail to start in the morning. I never replaced anything on it but the tires and brake pads. Even the interior was nice after all those years. It ran as strong as the day I bought it new, but I got tired of it, and traded it in for a 2006 V6 Accord that just flies down the road. I don't think there is a US car that can touch it for the price. The Mustang is a joke. The quality of the Accord is superb. I feel the same way about ZNLine and did about PL. If our "outstanding" craftsment in the US could build a better pattern product than the French, I would buy that product. We are lazy and unmotivated. There is nothing in the US pattern market but heavy, ugly, outdated designs that are difficult and time consuming to build. I wish I could say otherwise, but look at the US Auto makers as an analogy. I would much rather have a Japanese, Italian, or German auto than any US made auto (well, the Ford GT is looks nice, but I would still rather have a Porsche or Ferrari. Who wouldn't?). I've nothing against US products, but it does not appear that we are competing vigorously enough. The proof is in the numbers. Ford and GM are really tanking.

I hate to be so blunt and disagreeable, but you know something -- ZNline kits are better than anything available in the US. That includes all the roaches of course. Now if we built wood planes like the Japanese craftsmen, I would get in line for one of those.

Yours, David

< Message edited by dflynt -- 8/24/2006 5:51:22 AM >

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Post #: 37

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/24/2006 3:06:54 PM

MHester

Posts: 2492
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: online

I said I didn't like them. Was asked specifics, and answered. I disagree, and the numbers WILL speak for themselves that a lot of other people disagree as well. We like our roaches, I much prefer Oxai over ZN if I had to choose. We'll do our thing, you do yours. I think you'll be very suprised in the future. Again.

Y'all have fun!

-M

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Post #: 38

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/25/2006 5:12:07 AM

rcpattern

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From: DHanis, TX, USA
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David,

I have PERSONALLY flown the Pinnacle, a Brio, a Twister, Nedim Bek's Mantis, Smaragd, Partner's and also Mike's personal Black Magic. NOTHING has flown better than Mike's black magic. In about 2 minutes I was more comfortable with that airplane than anything I've ever flown, other than my Mantis. I have never flown a plane that came close to snapping like that one does...it rolls like you wouldnt believe...it flies better than my Mantis, and my poor Mantis certainly kicked some serious tail this year at the NATS..likely would've won Masters had it not been for a faulty pipe mount that in 3 years had never had a problem. I also go to see Sean's Astrall XX by Naruke, and other than a little finish details, I think the pure construction of the black magic is definitely up to par. After seeing photo's of Mike's other planes..I think if you come to the NATS next year, you will agree..the guy can flat out build...I know that he rushed these 2 Black Magic's he is flying now. I have seen the ZN stuff, and I have heard NUMEROUS complaints about them..ask Mickey Lasardo what he thinks of ZN...as usual the Chicago gang ordered multiple airplanes, and he had TERRIBLE luck with their wings and he is one of the top builders in the US..all of the manufactures have faults..and here is another little secret...guys can happily go spend 5000 on a pro built pattern plane, but put a 500 ARF in the hands of the right pilot and sit back and enjoy the show...I have definitely enjoyed winning MANY contests with my poor 3 year old Mantis...I have new planes coming now..but that plane has served me well, and it has certainly beaten its share of Oxai's, ZN's, PL, Piedmont's and any other manufacturer you want to throw in there. You should try flying one of these "wood roaches" as you call them before you knock them...I've flown the rest, and other than Sean's Astral XX (which was also wood by the way), I will happily choose the wood airframe. I felt that way years ago when the Prophecy's were THE plane to have..and I was flying a Viper...an airplane which also whipped it's share of Prophecy's and the like. They are so much more rigid than ANY composite airframe..and before you decide to tell me otherwise, please note I do composite work daily for the military and have worked with the best of the best of materials. I have built and flown many different UAV's, with about every imaginable combination of materials, and i still believe in the hands of the right builder, a well build wood airplane, is lighter (YES, lighter) and more rigid than any other type of material. Yes, you can build a composite aircraft maybe a little lighter, but you sacrifice rigidity, and there is ZERO advantage to a pattern plane under 10lbs in my opinion..on a calm day, sure..but try flying in the weather we had at the NATS on thursday this year with a VERY light plane..you are definitely at a disadvantage. I can promise you, if flying a 9lb airframe, which I still have no personally seen a plane that light; was that big of an advantage, then NONE of the top FAI guys would be flying planes that way 10 - 10.5, which they all are, some even heavier. I know Andrew likes his to be in the 10 1/4-10 1/2 range. I think about 100 sq inches per pound is the best ratio...You have to be VERY careful and selective in the quality of wood, but it can be done. I personally despise building. I like the kevlar/carbon aircraft from a time stand point and repeatability stand point, but that is the builder, not the kit..

Just my 2 cents...

and by the way, i love the look of this Zeque

Arch Stafford

< Message edited by rcpatt