RE: OXAI announced new Zeque

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque
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RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/25/2006 5:35:18 PM

patternflyer1

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It has similarities with the zn integral. Both nice planes but I don't care for the forward canopies yet. Kinda looks like a 747. LOL
C

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Post #: 51

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/25/2006 7:47:09 PM

can773

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From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dolanosa

My point is for anyone comparing. Compare the same things please. It's not comparing American to Japanese or European. It's comparing building methodologies, production equipment, facilities, and financial investment. Level the playing field to what ZN has interms of what I listed above, and you'll find that US designers will be more than happy to design even better planes than what they can do now.

B

I doubt the market would support many high volume facilities....even ZN does composites work for companies outside the RC business. Pascal Nowik (the N in ZN) was the head composites engineer for Mudry in France who produced the Cap 232. He probably still does outsourced work for them.

Also remember ZN's been in business for around 12 years, and produces more than just pattern models. I am sure they didnt start out one day with the equipment they have now.

As to the Japanese comment...I think a Naruke Astral is somewhere in the $5k range and is a very long wait list. Japanese and Chinese are not the same thing!

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Post #: 52

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/25/2006 7:54:22 PM

dflynt

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From: Arlington, VA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dolanosa

My point is for anyone comparing. Compare the same things please. It's not comparing American to Japanese or European. It's comparing building methodologies, production equipment, facilities, and financial investment. Level the playing field to what ZN has interms of what I listed above, and you'll find that US designers will be more than happy to design even better planes than what they can do now.

B

I'm not sure what you are saying. The US invented industrialization. The playing field is slanted toward the US excelling at this task. I am comparing the quality of the same product -- a pattern plane. See my American auto analogy. Ford invented the assembly line, and nobody industrializes better than the US. But we are falling behind in a few areas.

Who should level the playing field for the poor American underdog? Our government? It can be done if someone chooses to do it. And, despite what others have said, it can be done profitably. Look at Bob Violett Models. Create the best in the world product, and people across the globe will buy it. Create a heavy, second, third, ... best product, and a lot of people like me won't buy it.

ZNLine models are lighter, better glass work, better fit, better design, more choices than any US pattern plane manufacturer.

If what you are asserting were true, then why is Ford and GM tanking? I think they make an inferior product. They have all the necessary tools, but they lack desire and passion and grit to create the best product. Good enough is not good enough. It has to be the best in the world.

(in reply to dolanosa)

Post #: 53

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/25/2006 7:59:21 PM

bla bla

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From: Oslo, NORWAY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dolanosa

Level the playing field to what ZN has interms of what I listed above, and you'll find that US designers will be more than happy to design even better planes than what they can do now.

B

Level the playing field?
Your saying that ZN, one man in a small village is better equipped, better toolled and alround head and sholders above what can found through out the entire USA?
Don't buy that for a minute. You have infinately more than what available here... including many extraordinary, talented designers... but they're not European... thus they don't, can't, produce Euro' or Jap' design for that matter. They design like Americans, for an American market.
Nothing wrong with that as long as the market want Am-design.

< Message edited by bla bla -- 8/25/2006 8:06:56 PM >

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Post #: 54

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/25/2006 10:08:51 PM

Ryan Smith

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From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
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Disregarding the horrible quality of construction of the Brio, under what category would that fall? Quique is American now, should that be considered an American plane? I think the flight characteristics of the Brio are awesome, I just think that the quality of the product was garbage. I helped a good friend of mine with one, the fuselage looked like a monkey layed it up, and the servo boxes and hardpoints were in different locations for each surface, not to mention the fact that the TE's of the ailerons stuck out about 1/16 past the TE of the wing itself. From what I hear, the Brio isn't dead yet from the Piedmont standpoint.

From what I've seen, a lot of the cutting edge stuff in pattern doesn't necessarily give you an advantage. Uber super widebodies and electric setups don't really give you the advantage they seem lauded to have (no offense Chad and Adam). I've flown a few electrics, and I have to say that they do fly nicely, but it's nothing that can't be accomplished with my OS 1.40 in my Partner, IMO. I realize that electrics have more power, but I really can't say that I'm underpowered even for FAI stuff.

I really would love to see a greater selection of aircraft that are readily available domestically. I don't how much losing PL was that huge of a setback, yes they had awesome designs, but how long did it take for them to get their product to you? And how much did it cost just in shipping? Quique waited almost a year to get his Partners from them, and he was one of their premier sponsored pilots. Not to mention that, but their layups weren't that great. One of QQ's old Excellences is delamming really badly behind the wing, and a Smaragd from another shipment delammed bad enough that a fuse ladder had to be installed. I think it's great that ZN has new designs out, I wish there were more of them over here. I can't wait to see what stuff Piedmont comes out with, and Aeroslave seems to have carved out a nice niche in their area. I'm personally going to build two Black Magics this winter, just to see how this whole wood is good thing pans out. I do like the stiffness of wood designs, and with this airplane being glassed, I don't think it will have as bad of trim changes as something like a Focus.

I know all of that was sort of cobbled together, I just wrote stuff as I thought of it. Flame suit on, ready to go.

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Post #: 55

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/25/2006 10:12:39 PM

Ryan Smith

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From: Browns Summit, NC, USA
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Also, you have to think, most, if not all of the major American airframe suppliers do this as a hobby. I'm pretty sure that JP Zardini manufactures and builds model airplanes full time, whenever Patrick Lemmonier wasn't playing photographer, he was doing his company full time. Steve Wall with Piedmont does this in his spare time, he runs another business that he owns. Lance van Nostrand I believe has an independant occupation that supplies his income, and Gray Fowler, also of Aeroslave is a chemist. I will concur with the statement that American stuff isn't as good as it could be because of the lack of dedication. People take model airplanes more seriously in other parts of the world.

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Post #: 56

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/27/2006 4:49:49 AM

dolanosa

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: can773

I doubt the market would support many high volume facilities....even ZN does composites work for companies outside the RC business. Pascal Nowik (the N in ZN) was the head composites engineer for Mudry in France who produced the Cap 232. He probably still does outsourced work for them.

Also remember ZN's been in business for around 12 years, and produces more than just pattern models. I am sure they didnt start out one day with the equipment they have now.

As to the Japanese comment...I think a Naruke Astral is somewhere in the $5k range and is a very long wait list. Japanese and Chinese are not the same thing!

can773,

I'm not talking about industrialization or big business production methodologies. Needless to say, the US is the one that people follow when it comes to that. All I'm saying is that many of the builders here in the US are keeping their products more like a cottage industry rather than a full production line.

bla bla,

As far as am v.s. euro design, isn't the reason for the different designs are based on how they fly the sequences? It's just my opinion, but I could have the sexiest plane out there but that sex appeal gets old if the plane can't fly the sequences correctly. I'm not saying the euro designs don't fly well, they really do. I just think that the designs for each side of the world fly their respective sequences best. Now, before someone asks, "what about international competitions ehere they all fly the same sequences?" By this time, the pilot should be good enough to fly their planes with utmost comfort to fly well.

I guess that this is just gonna go on and on between the different design philosophies between different minds. This is why it's exciting to see the next things out there.

shoulda had my flame suit on. just had the fireproof underwear.
b

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Post #: 57

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/27/2006 10:32:35 PM

artistic-aero

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You Americans! Love it... invented industrialisation? Oh come on. That niave comment aside, ZN, PL, Lorenz etc. etc.. are all very popular designs in Europe. They are good enough quality to create a wonderful and competitive airframe, match enough for just about any flyer around. Paying $$$ of your airframe is a a choice you choose to make, like driving a Ferrari, a Lambo, a Zonda, a Masseratti, an Aston, Maclaren, a Rolls Royce, Bentley... err I'm struggling for a US player there. Anyway, you allocate the cash, you smile with pride as it respons to your err.. delicate touch. Good on anyone who keeps modelling alive by consuming.

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Post #: 58

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/28/2006 1:27:26 AM

mups53

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From: Hoffman Estates, IL, USA
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What country was it that put a man on the moon 37 years ago? Hmmm?
The only real reason that we don't build the best pattern planes is interest and economics. Pattern in the US doesn't have the same following and respect that it does in Europe and Japan. I wish it did and I wish things were different but there not. To compare technological and manufacturing prowess based on pattern planes is silly. God bless the free world.
Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: artistic-aero

You Americans! Love it... invented industrialisation? Oh come on. That niave comment aside, ZN, PL, Lorenz etc. etc.. are all very popular designs in Europe. They are good enough quality to create a wonderful and competitive airframe, match enough for just about any flyer around. Paying $$$ of your airframe is a a choice you choose to make, like driving a Ferrari, a Lambo, a Zonda, a Masseratti, an Aston, Maclaren, a Rolls Royce, Bentley... err I'm struggling for a US player there. Anyway, you allocate the cash, you smile with pride as it respons to your err.. delicate touch. Good on anyone who keeps modelling alive by consuming.

< Message edited by mups53 -- 8/28/2006 1:30:49 AM >

(in reply to artistic-aero)

Post #: 59

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/28/2006 1:53:05 AM

dflynt

Posts: 131
Joined: 1/2/2004
From: Arlington, VA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: artistic-aero

You Americans! Love it... invented industrialisation? Oh come on. That niave comment aside, ZN, PL, Lorenz etc. etc.. are all very popular designs in Europe. They are good enough quality to create a wonderful and competitive airframe, match enough for just about any flyer around. Paying $$$ of your airframe is a a choice you choose to make, like driving a Ferrari, a Lambo, a Zonda, a Masseratti, an Aston, Maclaren, a Rolls Royce, Bentley... err I'm struggling for a US player there. Anyway, you allocate the cash, you smile with pride as it respons to your err.. delicate touch. Good on anyone who keeps modelling alive by consuming.

Oh no, look what I started.

Thank you for being so gentle. You could have used the word ignorant instead of naive. Yes, britain is credited for the origination of the first Industrial Revolution. I overstated for effect. But I said industrialiZation, not industrialisation, so in another context I may be actually be correct. And why is it the U.S. is still using the English system of measurment?

(in reply to artistic-aero)

Post #: 60

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/28/2006 9:58:55 AM

bla bla

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Hey, by the way... why is it so important to have a US designed and built plane?
All of us in other countries don't worry about where the model came from as long as it's good and it arrives. As I said earlier, it dosen't bother me the planes shipped from, USA, Japan or Europe. Infact I really believe nobody tends to care where it's designed and where it's built as long as it's built well, looks good and flies great and hey lets set the record straight here... most, if not all of todays F3A planes are caperble of flying far better than most of us will ever be able to! So that leaves us with the "looks good" bit.
You need to start drawing some neat curves and get away from the "this is how a pattern plane looks" Am' pattern house-design. You're designers/pilots can have these new great designs built anywhere in the world like all the rest of them do.
Just come up with the designs.

< Message edited by bla bla -- 8/28/2006 5:41:04 PM >

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Post #: 61

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/28/2006 3:32:49 PM

dolanosa

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From: Chicago, IL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bla bla

most, if not all of todays F3A planes are caperble of flying far better than most of us will ever be able to! So that leaves us with the "looks good" bit.
You need to start drawing some neat curves and get away from the "this is how a pattern plane looks" Am' pattern house design. You'r designers/pilots can have These new great designs built anywhere in the world like all the rest.
Just come up with the designs.

I understand what you mean now. Since we can't be as good as the planes we fly, we can make the planes sexier.

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Post #: 62

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/28/2006 3:49:55 PM

ual767

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From: Chantilly, VA, USA
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Hey guys -How bout that Zeque, huh? Where is this thread going?

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Post #: 63

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/28/2006 5:52:18 PM

MHester

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From: Woodstock, GA, USA
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I actually think the Zeque looks pretty cool

I'm not a real fan of the canopy being right on top of the spinner, but I do understand why they do it.

Wait, I mean, I mean, uh.....looks great!

-Mike

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Post #: 64

RE: OXAI announced new Zeque - 8/28/2006 6:16:46 PM