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RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 3/31/2007 3:28:03 PM   
AS-EE


 

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You know this roll back issue with nitro is not an issue. If you think about it then you will realize that the servo controlling the throttle of the nitro engine's carb can also be used to control a drive shaft disk brake.When you let off the throttle the servo is actually returning to its normal position. By using this fact you can connect a rod to the servo horn that will engage a break shoe each time the throttle is let off of hence this will prevent the crawler from rolling back. Also it is completely unnecessary to have a generator to power the components. Simply use a lithium polymer battery which is light weight. Now the question may arise: How do I get 5 volts then? Well the answer is use a 5-volt regulator module. It can either be built or you can use this one here: http://www.robotmarketplace.com/marketplace_elect_other.html

Get the top one that costs $46.99.

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       Post #: 201

RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/1/2007 12:28:59 AM   
hands without shadows



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That regulator is only good for 2.5 amps, I dont think that will work for a 10+ pound rig.

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       Post #: 202

RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/1/2007 5:25:07 AM   
RC-Archer


 

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Reiko, I agree that that Saito would be an excellent choice for an engine and would nicely complement your handiwork. You may have already discussed using an hydralic clutch (or torgue converter) and you probably would want to reconsider. I would try it using various shock oil weights to adjust the stall speed.

If you want to go ahead and use a centrifical clutch, then I'd would seal the clutch and make a wet clutch like high performance motorcycles use. The oil would keep the linings from burning and glazing.

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       Post #: 203

RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/1/2007 8:42:23 AM   
AS-EE


 

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quote:

That regulator is only good for 2.5 amps, I dont think that will work for a 10+ pound rig.



Usually a servo should never be in situation where it demands high amounts of current for any extended length of time. If so then the servo was not properly chosen for the application. Besides those 4.8 volt battery packs would go dead in no time flat if there was 2.5 amps drawn from it continuously as they are only like 600mAH capacity, some maybe a bit higher. I've built a 5volt regulator using the SHARP PQ30RV21 adjustable regulator set at 5 volts with programming resistors and it never got hot to the touch on the heatsink with my servos.

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       Post #: 204

RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/1/2007 5:10:18 PM   
Anomie



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quote:

ORIGINAL: AS-EE

You know this roll back issue with nitro is not an issue. If you think about it then you will realize that the servo controlling the throttle of the nitro engine's carb can also be used to control a drive shaft disk brake.When you let off the throttle the servo is actually returning to its normal position. By using this fact you can connect a rod to the servo horn that will engage a break shoe each time the throttle is let off of hence this will prevent the crawler from rolling back. Also it is completely unnecessary to have a generator to power the components. Simply use a lithium polymer battery which is light weight. Now the question may arise: How do I get 5 volts then? Well the answer is use a 5-volt regulator module. It can either be built or you can use this one here: http://www.robotmarketplace.com/marketplace_elect_other.html

Get the top one that costs $46.99.


I did think about the servo braking mixed with the throttle for a time, but while the truck is stopped, the worm will not allow any reverse motion. I also eventually decided to incorporate a mechanical coupling that can physically disconnect the driveline after the worm. A one-way bearing will keep the model stopped after it is decoupled. This would also allow for a separate reverse motor that can propel the model without interfering with the nitro engine's operation.

Where the electrical is concerned, I will still need to use some batteries, and I am working on a 3-output regulator for powering the microcontroller, stepper controller, and receiver. The stepper motor itself will be too high a current draw to use the gen, but everything else running off the regulator can be powered by it. There was a discussion of the Sullivan Genesys system in this thread some time ago, and it appears that system is capable of approaching 1 amp while still maintaining around 4v. If I were to use 2 such gens, the output should be satisfactory for operating everything short of the stepper and reverse system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RC-Archer

Reiko, I agree that that Saito would be an excellent choice for an engine and would nicely complement your handiwork. You may have already discussed using an hydralic clutch (or torgue converter) and you probably would want to reconsider. I would try it using various shock oil weights to adjust the stall speed.

If you want to go ahead and use a centrifical clutch, then I'd would seal the clutch and make a wet clutch like high performance motorcycles use. The oil would keep the linings from burning and glazing.


The torque converter idea would solve a number of issues inherent in making this type of setup reliable. I have a couple of coworkers that have tried to help in working out a good starting point from which to experiment with different oil weights and blade pitches, but as of now I have not attempted to make one. If this coupling turns out to be a pain, I may go in that direction, and then use a one-way bearing to allow for electric reverse.

Also, making the clutch wet is a great idea. There would be no cooling issue, it seems to me, and the resulting life would be extended greatly. Thanks for the tip!

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RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/1/2007 6:13:39 PM   
hands without shadows



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quote:

ORIGINAL: AS-EE
quote:

That regulator is only good for 2.5 amps, I dont think that will work for a 10+ pound rig.

Usually a servo should never be in situation where it demands high amounts of current for any extended length of time. If so then the servo was not properly chosen for the application. Besides those 4.8 volt battery packs would go dead in no time flat if there was 2.5 amps drawn from it continuously as they are only like 600mAH capacity, some maybe a bit higher. I've built a 5volt regulator using the SHARP PQ30RV21 adjustable regulator set at 5 volts with programming resistors and it never got hot to the touch on the heatsink with my servos.


Its a 35+ pound rig, if he were to use servos instead of stepper motors it would probably be a high torque 1/4 scale on each axle. In rock crawling servos draw high amps and struggle all the time, a single 5955TG servo in a 2.2 crawler can draw upwards of 4 amps.

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       Post #: 206

RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/1/2007 6:23:55 PM   
The Real Dogman



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Reiko I like the rework of the body mounts..Looks much better than the t-bars you had earlier!!

Like I've said before. Great Work!!!

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RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/1/2007 7:59:54 PM   
Anomie



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I did consider using Tonegawa servos in the beginning. I think they are the strongest available.

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Real Dogman

Reiko I like the rework of the body mounts..Looks much better than the t-bars you had earlier!!

Like I've said before. Great Work!!!


Thanks

The t-shaped mounts were originally made to hold a 1/8 scale S-10 body, but soon after the truck became too large. I still need to rework them and raise the body a bit.

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RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/1/2007 8:29:52 PM   
turbotb0205



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well after hearing the weight of the one crawler in the works.. and seeing the engine of choice.. i thought id post this and say why not go all out b@lls to the wall and use a 6cyl watercooled nitro engine from h3ll ...RAWR http://206.206.85.209/xtdoc/Details.aspx?ProductCode=m-1538&store=mhzusa and no im not kidding.. 13k rpm 16hp prolly close to 30lb of tq.. geared down would be nearly 100lbs...

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RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/1/2007 9:27:26 PM   
Anomie



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That is an unbelievable engine! While it would be nice to install a larger and more scale powerplant, they are out of my price range. The twin is just over $600 and may be able to work without breaking too many parts.

BTW, I have no b@lls

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RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/2/2007 8:37:30 AM   
turbotb0205



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i just had a chance to go through your page your crawler is very impressive.. ive always said a nitro prolly wont be able to crawl very well

BUT with the skill and talent you have.. i really dont see you having ANY issues getting this done.. ... also ive been watchin the thread a bit and see you all tlaking about planetary gear boxes... with ultra low ratios.. well i have an idea... cordless drills use the same gearbox in them and it translates to usually a 33/40-1 gear ratio motor speed is about 20k roughly and the head speed is around 4-600 rpm so you do the math "the motor rpm is pretty close i tear them down and use them for E conversions very high tq and great rpm from johnson drill motors" with the machining skills you have you could easily create a case for this setup and use it .. and its a cheap replacement as well..

all the ones ive torn down are usually plastic mainside gear with a metal power side gear"drill chuck side" in a metal planetary casing and output shaft basically i dont think you would even need a clutch.. start on a box wheels off the ground and it would barely be rolling the tires .. not enough to stall the engine so really.. you wouldnt need a clutch system and rollback issues would be solved just burp the throttle to keep it alive it couldnt possibly roll backwards

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RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/2/2007 8:19:11 PM   
Anomie



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quote:

ORIGINAL: gravelhack

check this out you nitro crawler guys.......a bit too big but food for thought. Its a liquimatic go-ped torque converter.


After looking at this post numerous times (from back on page 4 of this thread), I believe it might be worth a further look. If a little torque converter can be adapted, it could solve many of the issues we've been discussing. It's true that the liquimatic is large, but might be suitable for a 1" engine.

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RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 4/4/2007 8:30:30 PM   
savagecommander


 

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WAH HA!!!!!! i just duked in my shorts when i saw that motor!!!! holy smokes batman... 16 hp is way enough.... just one question.... is that a hemi??

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RE: Nitro Rock Crawlers Only - 5/9/2007 9:52:39 PM   
rorannerusan