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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Batteries & Chargers >> Which Multimeter logging software to use
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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 12:26:31 AM   
jorgeelizondom


 

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I've just bought a new multimeter (the handheld type) that has a serial PC interface (RS232C). The software that came with it is very crude to say the least; I cannot even export nor save the captured data to a file.

I've been downloading several other programs from other vendors, but I have not been able to make them work with my multimeter, even the most basic ones.

My questions are these:
1) Is there a good universal multimeter data logger and charting program that you recommend? Primarily to be used for Battery health monitoring.

2) What needs to be configured to make these SW's work with my multimeter?

My multimeter Brand is "STEREN" model MUL-600. It looks like it is brand labeled to STEREN, and I could not find the original manufacturer.

I'll appreciate very much your help.
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Hi George - 1/7/2003 2:04:43 AM   
StarskiPZ


 

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I can understand where you are...

I have a MASTEC multimeter with RS232, it came with the software on a CD-Rom.

The manual & spec ( & box / packaging ) are really poor.

The CD had no info either, I had to figure out the computer ports etc before it clicked!

Its a shame really as the apparent quality of the meter is 1ST rate, and compare to my Fluke meters.

Im gona try & find the MASTEC website as the CD did give a ref...

I'l have a look....

.....good luck yourself!

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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 2:41:59 AM   
sfaust



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Cant help you too much here, but just wanted to add that I have been using a logging multimeter for the same purposes. I found it at Radio Shack, and figured that if it didn't do what I wanted, I could return it. Well, it works fairly well for our needs.

The software allows you to change the range, samples, grids, etc, and will allow you to save the data to a file. It displays a graph of the discharge curve on the screen that you can print if desired. Or, you can save it to a file, import it to Excel, and create a graph. I chart the discharge curve when new, and save it for reference. I log flights, esv readings, and capacity check them often against the logs and graph.

Here is a sample graph from my latest log, which was imported into Excel, and the graph created.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 2:55:54 AM   
mglavin



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Stephen

Did you graph a discharge with higher current draw, i.e. 3-4 amps?

I like these real world test's verses the manufacturer's data.

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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 3:01:38 AM   
sfaust



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No I haven't, since I try to match the load of the airplane, and do all my measuring and testing against that load. I fly a 40% aerobatic plane, with dual 2700mah packs, and I get a 1amp draw rate. So, I plot the curve, measure with the ESV, and capacity check at the 1amp rate.

I could try a higher rate, but it wouldn't match reality for my use.

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Stephen

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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 3:20:10 AM   
mglavin



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Stephen

I also fly 40% models. I have yet to have one that draws a mere 1 amp under load. This is hard to fathom, I have tested several digital servos they all pulled at least 2 amps loaded on an individual basis. Even if they were pulling only one amp, with say four servos on one half of the model were looking at four amps, intermittently probably more realistically... I also hook my rudder servos to either one side of the model or to a third battery so as to independently power them. In the case of the designated plane halve that was coupled with the other four or more servos we'd have considerable more power requirements.

You are suggesting that one amp is all you realize therefore you discharge your batteries to emulate this example, are you not?

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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 3:48:48 AM   
sfaust



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The 1amp load comes from what was used in capacity during the entire flight. From first turning it on, to the time I shut it off when landing. I typically use about 250mah from each battery during a 12 to 15 minute flight. Thats about 1amp per battery per hour. I can fly 6 flights on the dual 2700mah packs, and still have a nice reserve.

Actually I take that back. Its a bit more than 1amp, as I just increased my timer to 15 minutes. In the past it was 12 minutes. So, on average, its probably more like 1.3 or 1.5 amps. I am sure there are peaks where I pull far more than an amp during a flight, but I always understood that measuring for average draw is what should be used, and not for peak draw.

On my 40% Extra I have the following.
4 JR8411's for the ailerons
2 Multiplex Digital Jumbos for the rudder
2 JR8411's for the elevators
Don harris smoke pump (runs off RX1 battery)
4721 on the throttle
9202 on the choke servo
JR ??? mini on the smoke valve servo
Fiber option ignition switch and glitch detector
dual C-Volt meters

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Stephen

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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 3:49:05 AM   
StarskiPZ


 

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Thats an excellent graph / result..

The 1 amp issue.. well that is a topic in itself. For this thread its very applicable to plot several graphs.
The discharge curve will have the same characteristic shape.

But as you have said, thes graphs are ideal records of how good you pack is, for future comparisons.


( correction; not Mastec should be MASTECH who I think are Australian. Found them under Transtek )

Usefull tools, especialy if you don't have a smart charger that tells you actual charge capacity. But graphs & hard copies are hard to beat!

Cheers all,

(in reply to jorgeelizondom)
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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 3:59:57 AM   
sfaust



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by StarskiPZ
Thats an excellent graph / result..

The 1 amp issue.. well that is a topic in itself. For this thread its very applicable to plot several graphs.
The discharge curve will have the same characteristic shape.

But as you have said, thes graphs are ideal records of how good you pack is, for future comparisons.


( correction; not Mastec should be MASTECH who I think are Australian. Found them under Transtek )

Usefull tools, especialy if you don't have a smart charger that tells you actual charge capacity. But graphs & hard copies are hard to beat!

Cheers all,
[/QUOTE]

I think your point is, well, right to the point! Consistency is the key for comparison.

The graph would be useful at .5, 1.5, or 2amps, as long as you always use the same measurement. However, one would also need to use capacity checks to prove/disprove the no-fly voltage levels. But, the graph alone, at whatever discharge rate (within reason of course), can alert you to problems with the pack if the graph does not match the initial graph.

For no-fly voltage, I use the initial capacity, subtract the remaining capacity after discharging at the same load as the airplane, then divide the remainder by the number of minutes I flew. Multiply by 60, and I arrived at somwhere in the vicinity of 1amp for most of my larger airplanes. Of course, it should be noted that this is only 1/2 of the total load, since I am running dual packs with dual receivers. Total airplane load would be 2amps, with 1amp coming from each battery.

< Message edited by sfaust -- Jan 6 2003 11:05PM >


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Stephen

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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 4:11:21 AM   
StarskiPZ


 

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Thanks Steven, that good info.

I think the new 'smart' chargers ( which I presume you may use ) are really usefull in establishing your point!

- to find out how much you have left in your battery pack after a session.

As u know, they can indicate what charge you put in, and later when you discharge them it measures that too, so it'a A minus B ( with a small bit for losses ).

I have a supernova charger on my X-mass list!

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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 4:18:13 AM   
mglavin



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I can't argue with your math. I haven't performed any capacity consumed verses time tests in some time. My only recollection is a test I did a few years ago with a 33% model, eight servo's IMAC routines, approximately 28mA per minute consumed. Seems to be in line with your findings...

What type of flying are you performing? It's HARD for me to believe 1A average, knowing the potential are servos have for consumption. But as I stated the math supports your assertion. Interesting food for thought....

Thanks for explaining it to me.

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Which Multimeter logging software to use - 1/7/2003 6:56:33 AM   
sfaust



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Stars

I use the Alpha 4, which isn't anything new, but it does have the ability to show amount discharged. The Super Nova would be its equivalent, but with a higher amp charge rate, and only a single port. In essence, they do the same thing, but the Alpha can do 4 packs independently, whereas the SuperNova can only do 1 at a time.

Showing what gets put back in a pack isn't as useful, and can be misleading. Since there is a loss associated with the charging process, it can mislead you into thinking that you used less than you really did. The best way to check the capacity is to use what was left after your flying sessions. The SuperNova shows what was put back in, which will probably be 10% more than what was actually needed. The Alpha 4 only shows what was taken out (remaining capacity).

With that said, the mah put back in can be a good secondary reference point between capacity checking. If you feel you have used maybe 900mha of flying (ie, say 3 10 minutes flights), and it shows it put in 1700mah, you know something is amiss. With the Alpha, the only way I would know is that the charge took much longer than I was used to. Not as useful, but if you pay attention to it, thats also a good indication.

You will like the Super Nova. A nice charger. I have one also, and even though I rarely use it, I am hesitant to sell it because its just plain cool.

mgalvin,

Was the 28mah rate on the 33% with a single battery, or two? I should probably go back and check my notes to make sure my memory isn't failing. I seem to remember that my average was around 250mah to feed one receiver and half the servos, for about a 12 minute flight. I will go back and check just to make sure. I would test it next time I fly, but that could be spring seeing how I am buried in 12" of snow at the moment.

I don't fly IMAC, but prefer to freestyle. However, much of the flying I do is IMAC in spirit, with some 3D thrown in. Figure a flight consists of a bunch of IMAC maneuvers for turnarounds at the ends of the box, and in the middle I tend to do knife edge, knife edge snaps to knife edge, harriers, elevators, blenders, and other typical hot dog maneuvers. I don't torque roll, as I haven't practiced it much since it doesn't interest as much as the other maneuvers. I use the smoke quite a bit, which also feeds off the receiver battery, but to be honest, I believe when I last measured I was using the TME smoke pump which runs off a separate battery.

I think we may assume that since the servos are able to suck up to 2amps each when fully stalled, its easy to think the current draw will be very high during a flight. In reality, they may only draw close to an amp in extreme movements, and only for he split second of movement to get there. Once in position, they draw far less current. And with the speed at which they can move, they tend to get there quickly. On the other hand, I would also think that when the fingers always moving the sticks, there must be a lot of current moving around.

When spring rolls around, I think I will do a very methodical test, and do some very accurate measurements. At least it will tell me in my setup, exactly what the rate per minute is. I'll also try some flights with heavy 3D, and some smooth and more pattern like. I'd be curious.

I did have one unexpected test that was bestowed upon me last year. A test to see if all the wiring, servos, connectors, and receivers could withstand the almost complete dumping of a 1600mah Duralite pack in one 8 minute flight. I had a servo on the rudder go bad, and the other servo was fighting it. Both rudder servos were on the same receiver in a dual receiver seutp. I was shocked when I landed and saw the C-Volt meter reading in the 3.x range!

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Stephen

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