RE: Is AMA a monopoly  
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[Poll]

Is AMA a monopoly
yes
  60% (50)
no
  39% (33)


Total Votes : 83
(last vote on : 9/2/2006 4:14:23 AM)
(Poll ended: 9/2/2006 4:39:00 AM)
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RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 6:21:33 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 50%plane

Exactly! I'm saying it's a monopoly for me as it the only "insurance" that I have. Other than that, there's no monopoly about it except for the fact that the AMA offers a bag of crap that many RC pilots buy into. Still, that doesn't make it a monopoly.



Just because it your only form of insurance doesn't make it a monopoly. It may make you unprepared, but it does not make AMA a monopoly.

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(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 26

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 6:44:36 PM   
F106A



Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Clifton, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		I could care less if you ever get your program going, it will not affect my modeling experience at all. I build and fly real models; not little pieces of foam.
Your're the one spouting off all the time about how simple everything is to do, I just thought that, according to your previous posts, that setting this up would be a no brainer.
Guess it's not so simple after all.
Jon

(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 27

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 7:33:27 PM   
abel_pranger


 

Posts: 2319
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
Status: offline 		quote ORIGINAL: 50%plane

Good post, Chris.

I think this cite is especially germane and concise:

"Investopedia Says: Monopoly is the extreme case in capitalism. Most believe that, with few exceptions, the system just doesn't work when there is only one provider of a good or service because there is no incentive to improve it to meet the demands of consumers. Governments attempt to prevent monopolies from arising through the use of antitrust laws.

Monopoly is an emotion charged word. I think the essence of what really bugs people isn't 'monopoly' per se, with all the argument over semantics that word stirs up. The real issue is included in your quote: "only one provider of a good or service because there is no incentive to improve it.... "

I didn't join SFA while they were around, but I did appreciate the existence of that organization. From a member's POV, AMA was a better organization then, just because SFA was there.

Abel



< Message edited by abel_pranger -- 8/23/2006 7:34:22 PM >

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 28

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 7:44:09 PM   
PilotFighter



Posts: 2019
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Because AMA has the ONLY insurance specifically designed for RC/CL/FF modelers AND.......................AND they dictate to thier chartered clubs that members must have AMA insurance..............I do believe they are effectively an insurance monopoly. That has been my opinion of them all along. The DVP's and their little columns always appeared to be a dog and pony show to give the appearance the AMA is something more than insurance and a Magazine. In todays language, each club is an independent cell, (watch HLS computors latch on to RCU now ). You and I should have some other term to describe ourselves besides the AMA. IT confuses the issue. I'm the AMA. You are the AMA. They are the AMA. THe AMA sucks. We refer to the AMA in so many ways. But there is the Muncie AMA and there is us. We were the AMA. Now they are the AMA. IF we ain't them, and we are forced to use their stuff...........then that is a monopoly or a monop-bully.
Not for profit ! Don't make me laugh. That just means that you spent everything !!! Hey , look at me..........I'm not for profit. Imagine me holding out my empty pockets.
This "club" thing is a marketing ploy. Or at least it very well could be. What is the difference ? Intent. Prove intent. Can't. So, whats left? Perception. Do they act like a national club or do they act like an insurance and magazine monopoly ? Hmm. Well, do they listen and respond to their membership ? Hard to say. The dog and pony show is well polished. You would have to split some fine hairs to actually prove that the AMA is a monopoly. But everyone in the AMA knows what it FEELs like !!!
So maybe the test..............isn't a another insurance company in a court fighting for its right to insure members at AMA feilds. Maybe the test is a class action filed by the members because we are not allowed to purchase insurance elsewhere. Gee, I wonder if one of the worlds 478 million lawyers read that. (Blood in the water, blood in the water.)
See.............thats the problem. If you really want to know the answer........then you must destroy the AMA to find out. Hey.........remember the AMA ? ..........................yep, turned out it is was a club........went broke, didn't they ? Yep, a very not for profit club.
Oh, the short answer. There is no way to know.

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       Post #: 29

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 8:05:41 PM   
STYLES is my name


 

Posts: 30
Joined: 8/3/2006
From: Winder, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I think it is a monopoly. Like I said in another post, I dont use them anymore for insurance. Maybe I would if I wanted to fly at another field ,but that is only because I would HAVE to. that means if you want to fly at any public field you are FORCED to have AMA coverage. when I can go to a local club field and fly without an AMA "license" I will chage my mind. AMA should also have reduced rates for established and safe pilots. The only reduced rates offered now are for people that are like 100 years old and those who want to buy coverage for the next 75 years.

(in reply to PilotFighter)
       Post #: 30

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 8:17:13 PM   
littlecrankshaf



Posts: 2135
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: here
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: STYLES is my name

Maybe I would if I wanted to fly at another field ,but that is only because I would HAVE to. that means if you want to fly at any public field you are FORCED to have AMA coverage. when I can go to a local club field and fly without an AMA "license" I will chage my mind. .


Pay dirt!

AMA requires NON club members to subsidize chartered clubs whether the member desires to or not...No choice makes them monopolistic.


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Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

(in reply to STYLES is my name)
       Post #: 31

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 8:19:36 PM   
LonestarMan


 

Posts: 199
Joined: 7/15/2006
From: Harker Heights, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hey!!! I just saved a bunch of money on my AMA insurance and club dues by switchin' to NONE!!!

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Look good doin' it !!!

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       Post #: 32

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 9:54:54 PM   
Ken Erickson



Posts: 307
Joined: 12/17/2005
From: Columbus, IN, USA
Status: offline 		A reply to all af you!!!

Yes, the AMA is a Monopoly. But you all have missed the point entirely (except for those who want to buy their own insurance and fly by themselves, or a group of such minded people).

The AMA is the ONLY organization providing the service of co-ordinating competitive sport flying of model airplanes in the United States of America!!!!!!! This is because the National Aeronautical Association has an agreement with the AMA that this is so.

The NAA has an agreement with the FAI (3 French words, I know what they are, but thought to be just a bit facetious somewhere in this sermon), which is the governing body for Sport Aviation in the WORLD. Check out the record book, there is everything in there from passenger planes to 1/2 A C/L racers.

That is the AMA. The rest of it is for promotion of the hobby/sport.

The AMA is to Model Aviation, and I don't mean the nice magazine, as the NCAA is to College sports!!

Yes, they have expanded by offering liability insurance to the membership and to landowners. How many fewer flying fields would there be if we could not offer the landlord the liability insurance? Our landlord is a member of the club. He watches that we are in compliance.

Ken Erickson

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 33

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 10:18:37 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9221
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline 		If we put up a poll and ask if Santa Claus is a real person I bet we'll get more then 50% response to that as well. People are polling their opinions, but at the end of the day the AMA is not even close to what it commonly defined as a monopoly, not even by a longshot.

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(in reply to Ken Erickson)
       Post #: 34

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 10:23:03 PM   
jonkoppisch



Posts: 1932
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
Status: offline 		I pretty much base my answer on this document by the ama. You cannot dual charter a club, it's either ama or hit the highway so.....

http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-Files/909.pdf



Unicorn,
Loch Ness Monster,
Big Foot
and Dual Charter
Each is a Myth!!!
Like the unicorn, loch ness monster, and big foot—dual chartering, using the same club
name, is a myth.
The same name cannot be used to charter a club with both the AMA and any other
organization. An AMA chartered club is a unique, identifiable entity which is composed
exclusively of AMA members and is protected by AMA insurance.
An AMA chartered club is protected by AMA insurance because all club members must
be members of AMA, and all members must follow the current
AMA club insurance does not extend to non AMA
members except under the siteowner’s provisions and the special instruction programs.
An AMA member may belong to other organizations*, but an AMA club must be
chartered only with the AMA and cannot be chartered with any other organization. If a
club does plan to also charter with another organization, it must do so under a different
name.
Maintaining the unique name and organizational identity of the AMA club conforms to
the AMA bylaws and simplifies complex insurance matters in the event of a claim. For
the same reasons, sanctioning an event with two organizations voids the event, and the
event will not be recognized by AMA.
Support the uniqueness of your AMA club, and enjoy all the benefits that AMA has to
offer.
Official AMA National
Model Aircraft Safety Code.
* An AMA member may also belong to the special interest groups listed on the back of this document, join
other related organizations or be a part of completely unrelated organizations, national or foreign. There
are no restrictions.
dtp\graphics\cdr\insur\dualchrt.cdr 3/99
TM


< Message edited by jonkoppisch -- 8/23/2006 10:25:13 PM >

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       Post #: 35

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 10:48:11 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9221
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

You cannot dual charter a club, it's either ama or hit the highway so.....
Sure you can, you just can't use the same name, but you just put up a red flag for stupidity. Ever heard the term conflict of interest? There is a legal reason for this and the same rules applies in the common business world. Again, not to restrict anything, but to protect the integrity of the AMA and to protect the club. In fact I think it's quite nice of the AMA for putting that rule, gives people who don't know much about the law a simple solution. I'm surprised they didn't say ... "hey stupid" somewhere in that rule, guess they are nice.

Whose going to pay whom once there is an incident? You only shoot yourself in the foot if you dual charter a "club". You hurt something then charter A can say it's not my charter, then charter B can say it's not my charter. Then you wind up in court because of your clubs stupidity. Insurance companies thrive on stupidity, not their fault, yours.

Why would you dual charter a "club", that makes 0 sense. But you can certainly dual charter a flying site with ease.

< Message edited by STLPilot -- 8/23/2006 11:01:42 PM >

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       Post #: 36

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 11:06:09 PM   
jonkoppisch



Posts: 1932
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Bringing up stuff from the past.... at one time clubs that were 'dual chartered' be it under different names etc were given a choice of either loosing the ama charter or dropping the other... At least that's what some of the past clubs have said...

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xps and a flash = NO MORE FLASH...
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(in reply to STLPilot)
       Post #: 37

RE: Is AMA a monopoly - 8/23/2006 11:10:07 PM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9221
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jonkoppisch
Bringing up stuff from the past.... at one time clubs that were 'dual chartered' be it under different names etc were given a choice of either loosing the ama charter or dropping the other... At least that's what some of the past clubs have said...
Right and that's how it should be, how else to tell a club that they are morons for dual chartering a club. The AMA must be respresented properly, very common. Either way, it's still just the name. But like a Brit once wrote .... what's in a name???

Hi, I'm Larry, this is my brother Daryl and my other brother Daryl. Sounds kind of funny, huh.


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       Post #: 38