RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (Full Version)

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Nightshift -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (9/30/2006 1:48:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: elhepilot

A123Racing site still does not accept Canadian orders. When should I try again?


Hi!
Same thing for me ,I tryed yesterday to order,and it look like it did'n work

can we order by phone?

Nightshift



ehart -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (9/30/2006 8:58:55 PM)

The Xtrema charger looks very nice, but does not balance cells. Are others aware of general-purpose chargers that handle the A123 cells *and* offer balancing (either built-in, or through an integrated balancer attachment)?



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/3/2006 8:53:36 PM)

Hello All,

The Canadian Shipping has been updated and is working properly. Please make sure to choose ups to Canada as your shipping choice.

Ehart,

We currently offer a charger that is capable of charging a 3S pack at 10 amps. This gives you a 15 minute charge time. It also balances the pack on every charge. If you are buying loose cells you can purchase the balancing wires to solder on so that your custom packs can be used with the charger. Visit http://www.a123racing.com/html/soniccharge.html to check it out.

Looking forward to more questions,

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]




tmenet -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/4/2006 11:37:46 PM)

ehart,

There is an integrated balancer in the works for the Xtrema. That is one of the functions of the expansion port. We have found that using a separate balancer before and after charging works well with non damaged cells. Our experience has shown that if the cells are in good shape and they start in balance, they will most likely end up in balance. The A123 cells are awesome this way when used with our charger.

Albert



elhepilot -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/6/2006 7:42:46 PM)

This Canadian successfully place his order with A123 Racing. Thanks for the work on your site.



Nightshift -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/8/2006 1:42:02 PM)

Happy Canadian!
Just receved my kit yesterday!
got to try that next week end for racing
Just one bad new for Canadian byer UPS ROB ME $83.00 OF ALL KIND OF EXTRA FEE FOR DELEVERING TO MY DOOR
Had that to the $160 00 for the kit it end up very expensive .
But new thecnologie must come with a prize.

Nightshift



dbgantt -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/8/2006 8:25:39 PM)

Hi Brian,

Any plans in the works for M1 cells with greater mah capacity? The M1 2200 mah cells are great but I would prefer not to go to parrallel configurations if possiible for my airplanes. While a parrallel configuration doubles my run time it put me back in the NiCad weight neigborhood. It also complicates chargin a bit. I currently have two 6 cell series packs (6S1P) and one 4 cell series pack (4S1P) and fly .25 and .40 sized RC electic aircraft. A 3000 mah M1 would be AWESOME!


Keep up the good work!

Dana



747-RCU -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/14/2006 8:48:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: A123 Racing

Hello All,

The Canadian Shipping has been updated and is working properly. Please make sure to choose ups to Canada as your shipping choice.


Looking forward to more questions,

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]




If you use UPS for shipping to Canada, I can Guarantee you, that you won't be getting many Canadian orders. They UPS charge an enormous amount of brokerage fee. As canadians, we have to pay 14% on anything bought from US, on top of that UPS sticks their horrendous brokerage fee. I would advise using United States postal service, excellent and fast service, cheap rates and the brokerage fee we pay through post is only $5.

I personally would like to buy them, but I avoid buying from companies who insist on using UPS for shipping.
Thanks
Maqsood



elhepilot -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/15/2006 6:14:27 PM)

I can only agree. I had to pay an additional $65 Cdn to ransom my order!



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/16/2006 5:09:48 PM)

Hello All,

Dana, there is not currently anything scheduled for a M1 cell with more capacity, Sorry. However we are currently working on a smaller cell so if you have some smaller planes that you have note been able to fit our batteries into yet you have that to look forward to.

Our Friends to the North,

Does UPS charge you this when it is delivered? We have shipped four orders to Canada from A123Racing and so far the UPS charges have been $18, $14, $14, and $12. Perhaps you are having next day air quoted?

Please send me some more information so I can figure this out.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



psarrazin -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/17/2006 6:49:49 AM)

Hi Brian,

You recommend against soldering the cells.
The development kits offered on A123racing are single tabbed cells .
What's the recommended assembly procedure for these kits?

Do we need to get the double tabbed cells from the main site to solder cells together?

Thanks
Philippe


quote:

ORIGINAL: A123 Racing

....You should definitely not butt solder the cells end to end. Applying the heat from the soldering gun directly to the cell is very bad for it. When the heat is applied the electrolyte inside the cell actually boils creating a gas behind the anode or the cathode. This will degrade the lifespan of your cell dramatically. ...
Brian




A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/17/2006 3:42:20 PM)

Hello Philippe,

That is correct you should definitely not be soldering directly to the cells, you need to solder to the tabs. The developer kit cells on www.a123racing.com have one small tab on each end. These tabs make it very easy to solder the tabs in series or in parallel. There are instructions included when you purchase the cells telling you how they should be charged and how they can be wired up with our optional balance connectors so that your pack will work with our 15 minute Sonic Charge system.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



Nightshift -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/18/2006 2:37:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: A123 Racing

Our Friends to the North,

Does UPS charge you this when it is delivered? We have shipped four orders to Canada from A123Racing and so far the UPS charges have been $18, $14, $14, and $12. Perhaps you are having next day air quoted?

Please send me some more information so I can figure this out.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



Hi Brian!

I'll come back with more info about the billing with UPS next time ,for now that bill is not with me tonight

Just to let you and every body know that up to now i love those battery.
When racing with 2S1P/2300 m and it go as expected

Only problem with my T4 is i got to work a new set up now for compensate for the light weight.

Nightshift.



SS Pede -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/20/2006 8:10:22 PM)

Hey, just found this forum but I've been following this technology on a different one. I am currently debating whether or not to purchase a123 batteries. A couple things:

1. As mentioned above, I'd also love to see higher capacity cells. I love long run times so the more mAh the better! Without the turbo module the 4600 pack will no doubt provide very good run times, but if I decided to boost the voltage I would be back down in NiMH range.

2. Size is a bit of a concern, since I want to stuff a 2s2p pack into a Stampede's battery tray. I'd have to do some grinding. If anyone has tried to fit a 4600 pack in a Stampede, let me know what mods are required. I'd rather have a bigger pack with more run time than a small pack with less run time. Of course, a small pack + big run time setup would be great! [:D][;)]

3. Batfish - I'm intrigued by your recommendation to gear up a couple teeth to regain the top speed of NiMH. It would be nice to do this and not have to boost the voltage. More run time and less weight that way!! But what about putting strain on the motor? Isn't it possibly that gearing up would overheat my SS5800 system in my Pede? This is no race truck...it has big rubber on it and isn't all that light compared to a TC3-O. I'd love to gear up to gain speed as long as my low end power stayed the same, but normally this would put me out of the SS5800's comfortable range. Any thoughts?

Brian, thanks for hanging out on the forum!



Tipover -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/21/2006 8:36:14 PM)

Hi all,

I've posted this over in another forum but thought some here might find it usefull. Brian said it was ok to post pictures of planes flying on these cells so I've included a couple. I've been testing out a nearly stock Dewalt 10S1P pack in my H9 Funtana 90S. Motor is a Hacker A50-L 16 turn outrunner with a APCe 20-8 prop. Pulling 50 amps peak at 26 volts under load. This is giving around 1300 watts total power. Airframe weighs 9.5 lbs all up, so this is only around 135 watts per pound. This plane hovers and waterfalls very good with this power ratio. In theory I should be able to prop up a bit and get to 60 amps peak. I've had no need for more power as of now[:D] Only 13 flights so far as the weather has been a bit crappy(transitioning from fall to winter in WI). I've been charging with the Extrema to 3.6v per cell, at a 4 amp charge rate. This refills the pack with 2200ma in 35 minutes. Consistantly getting 7 minutes plus doing lots of aerobatics and 3d flight. The cells have been staying balanced with no help thus far. If the need for balancing arrises, I'm proposing to plug the stock Dewalt module with the two 5 pin connectors(shown with the pack in pictures) into the stock pack(with the addition of a Deans connector on the battery wires)and charge the pack through the Stock Dewalt charger that is available on ebay for around $50. This should charge and balance the pack as a stock unit. I believe the balancing is done by the charger via the multi pin connector on the stock pack.

Kevin

Forgot to mention the discharge curve is very flat at this power level. I can hardly tell a difference from takeoff till landing, but they dump very fast at the end. Don't want to be hovering at 7 1/2 minutes[;)]



747-RCU -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/22/2006 2:44:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: A123 Racing

Hello All,

Dana, there is not currently anything scheduled for a M1 cell with more capacity, Sorry. However we are currently working on a smaller cell so if you have some smaller planes that you have note been able to fit our batteries into yet you have that to look forward to.

Our Friends to the North,

Does UPS charge you this when it is delivered? We have shipped four orders to Canada from A123Racing and so far the UPS charges have been $18, $14, $14, and $12. Perhaps you are having next day air quoted?

Please send me some more information so I can figure this out.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]





Hi Brian,
Here is the detailed info on UPS copied from another Canadian Forum, rccanada.ca

Some of you may already be aware of this information. Feel free to skip on to the next thread. Same to those who live near the border and can get shipments delivered to a US address.

The following information is for purchases of small to medium sized items from the USA. Large items (such as planes) are a whole other kettle of fish.

For those if you who are considering purchasing an item from the USA and having it shipped to you, you may be interested in how UPS figures out its "brokerage" fees. Until recently, I never really knew how they came up with their fee, only that it always seemed to be a bit much.

First though, a quick refresher on how Canada Post calculates the fee it charges. Rather simple, actually:

1. Convert the US$ cost of the item(s) (not including shipping) to CA$.
2. Calculate GST/PST or HST on the CA$ value.
3. Add $8.00 handling charge.

However, not all shipments have the taxes/handling fee added. I have no idea what criteria Canada Post uses to decide if the fees will be assessed, as it has been hit or miss in my experience. But, pretty much anything over $100.00 CA$ will get the fees added.

Now for UPS. Not so simple:

1. Convert the US$ cost of the item(s) (not including shipping) to CA$.
2. Calculate the GTS/PST or HST on the CA$ value.
3. Add brokerage fee based on CA$ value. (see chart below)
4. Add "funds advance fee" of 2.7% of amount advanced ("amount advanced is the value of the taxes determined in step 2.) Minimum amount is $5.85 (!!!)
5. Add C.O.D. fee of $4.25 to collect these fees from you.
6. If there are more than 5 items in the shipment, add another $4.00 for EACH item over the initial 5.
7. Add GST calculated on the total of the above fees (except value calculated in step 2.)

Brokerage fees:
$0.00 to $20.00: $0.00
$20.01 to $40.00: $7.00
$40.01 to $100.00: $19.45
$100.01 to $200.00: $29.00
$200.01 to $350.00: $37.60
$350.01 to $500.00: $42.25
$500.01 to $750.00: $48.05
$750.01 to $1,000.00 $53.70
$1,000.01 to $1,250.00: $59.50
$1,250.01 to $1,600.00 $63.25
$1,600.01 to $5,000.00 $66.70
Each additional $1,000 $5.20

Got all that?

Here's a couple of examples for you:

Exchange rate: 1.1336

One item at $54.95 US$:

Canada Post:
CA$ Value: $54.95 x 1.1336 = $62.29
GST = $62.29 x .06 = $3.74
PST = $62.29 x .08 = $4.98
Handling fee = $8.00
Grand Total taxes/fees = $16.72

UPS:
CA$ Value: $54.95 x 1.1336 = $62.29
GST = $62.29 x .06 = $3.74
PST = $62.29 x .08 = $4.98
Brokerage fee = $19.45
Funds Advance fee = $5.85
C.O.D. fee = $4.25
Total fees = $29.55
GST on fees: $29.55 x .06 = $1.78
Grand total taxes/fees = $40.05

10 items with total US$ value of $567.32:

Canada Post:
CA$ value: $567.32 x 1.1336 = $643.11
GST = $643.11 x .06 = $38.59
PST = $643.11 x .08 = $51.45
Handling fee = $8.00
Grand total taxes/fees = $98.04

UPS:
CA$ value: $567.32 x 1.1336 = $643.11
GST = $643.11 x .06 = $38.59
PST = $643.11 x .08 = $51.45
Brokerage fee = $48.05
Funds Advance fee = $5.85
C.O.D. fee = $4.25
Additional 5 items = $4.00 x 5 = $20.00
Total fees = $78.15
GST on fees: $78.15 x .06 = $4.69
Grand total taxes/fees = $172.88

So there you have it. This is the reason I will not have anything shipped across the border via UPS. If I want it quickly, I'll ask for USPS Global Priority. Still goes through Canada Post with their flat $8.00 handling charge.

As always, YMMV. I post this for information purposes only.



If you like to read the complete thread, its here;

http://www.rccanada.ca/bb/viewtopic.php?t=25965&highlight=ups

Hopefully that will clarify us Canadians' concern.
Thanks



rltucker -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/23/2006 12:39:49 AM)

This is for Brian, A123 Racing...

In your your post on 9/12/2006 you said, "...a 2S1P (6.6V) pack can be brought up to 8.4V provided that it not be kept at that voltage for a long period of time, and that the pack is balanced properly."

Later, in the same post, you said, "Even though the batteries are tolerable of 4.2V / cell we do not recommend that they be charged on a 4.1/4.2V Lithium charger because the charger will maintain the pack at 4.2V for several minutes... Also because those chargers do not monitor and balance the cells during charging..."

The literature that came with my FMA Cellpro 4s charger says, "Each cell is charged independently... ...Charger balances (equalizes) cell voltages while it is charging the pack."

My conclusion is it would be ok to use the Cellpro 4s charger on one of your packs provided the process was closely monitored and stopped after a short time at 4.2V. Do you concur?

Bob



Ceasar23 -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/23/2006 10:33:36 AM)

A123/Brian,

Question for you, everything I have read on you batteries are centered on the use of them in a single motor to single battery, single motor dual battery, or dual motor dual battery configurations. My question is I have two Clod Busters and two TXT-1's which run dual mod (14t double and 15t double) motors in them and I usually run them on one NiMh pack. Will one of your packs handle the load of dual modified motors in a Clod or TXT-1? I mostly use them for racing but I also do some crawling with different motors in my one of my TXT-1's. Have you done any testing or could you tell me if using your batteries would be safe in these kind of trucks with the load of dual mod motors? I am really interested in getting away from NiMh batteries and moving to your batteries especiallly with the Turbo Module but I need to do my research before buying them.

Thank you,
Tony



Batfish -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/23/2006 3:38:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SS Pede


3. Batfish - I'm intrigued by your recommendation to gear up a couple teeth to regain the top speed of NiMH. It would be nice to do this and not have to boost the voltage. More run time and less weight that way!! But what about putting strain on the motor? Isn't it possibly that gearing up would overheat my SS5800 system in my Pede? This is no race truck...it has big rubber on it and isn't all that light compared to a TC3-O. I'd love to gear up to gain speed as long as my low end power stayed the same, but normally this would put me out of the SS5800's comfortable range. Any thoughts?



Hello SS Pede,

I wouldn't expect it to harm the SS5800 at all. In my TC3 "O" with the SS5800 the temps haven't been a concern for me. Although the Stampede is a bigger vehicle with bigger tires, a 4wd buggy can pull pretty hard on the electronics when compared to a 2wd truck.
As always, I'd suggest trying it out for yourself and monitoring the temps/performance to draw your own conclusions, but I would expect that you'd have no problems with that setup.




A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/23/2006 9:27:10 PM)

Hello All,

I am On my way back from the I-Hobby Expo in Chicago. There sure was a lot of great RC stuff there.

Tony (Caesar), RCP crawlers was our next door neighbor at the expo show and they had their rock crawling track setup. I started talking to the crawling guys on Thursday and we decided to try the batteries in their crawlers. They used them all week/weekend and said that they were awesome. They had some 2.2 crawlers as well as some larger dual motor dual steering rigs. They were using Tekin speed controllers with our 2S1P 6.6V batteries and also the 3S1P 9.9V battery. They also tried it with the turbo module and had them doing wheelies (I didn’t think they were supposed to do that). Our batteries will certainly be up to the challenge of running dual motors. they will provide all the power and then some of the NiMH batteries that you are currently using.

SS Pede

I understand your concern for a larger capacity pack. The 4600 with the turbo module will still have runtime much better than the NiMH batteries that you are currently using. Our 2S1P 6.6V 2300mAh battery has runtime comparable to a GP3300 (7-9 minutes racing with a stadium truck). If you were running the 4600mAh with the Turbo and were using an extra 10% (equivalent runtime of 4150mAh) you will still be running much longer than something like a GP 4200.


Hello Bob (RLTucker)

The cell pro charger is not currently adapted for charging our cells. If you charge our batteries on any charger that charges the batteries to a peak voltage of 4.2V / cell then you are charging them in a way that is not recommended. The cells will tolerate a voltage of 4.2V / cell but it is in no way good for them, especially if continued time and time again. If they are charged in this way you will put your battery at risk for a short lifetime and possible cell failure. We hope to see many of the chargers being released in the future accommodate our charge characteristics.

747-RCU,

I will look into other options for shipping to Canada. It is strange that there are these fees, they must be applied to the customer un-known to us. In our system all the UPS shipping charges to Canada are under $15. I will keep you posted as I look into this.


Thanks for all the questions guys, Keep the interest growing and the questions coming.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



rltucker -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/24/2006 3:50:46 PM)

For A123/Brian

I was considering buying the Four Cell Developer Kit, HS-DK-4, priced at $66, when I noticed the cells are single tabbed. How would I connect them in series if soldering is forbidden?

Bob



DIALED/CHUCK -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/24/2006 4:44:55 PM)

Bri-Guy!

Nice to see you!

--C



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/25/2006 5:58:17 PM)

Hey Bob,

Soldering Directly to the cells is forbidden. This is beacuase heat from a soldering gun applied directly ot the end of the cell can severely damage the anode and/or the cathode. However the loose cells that we offer have a small nickel tab as you mentioned. Soldering to the end of the nickel tab keeps the intense heat far enough away from the cell to ensure that it is not damaged.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Hey Chuck, hows it going.

Brian


[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



rltucker -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/25/2006 8:12:17 PM)

For A123/Brian

In answer to my inquiry as to how to connect the cells in series in your Four Cell Developer Kit, HS-DK-4, which have only one tab, according to the website, you said:

"...the loose cells that we offer have a small nickel tab as you mentioned. Soldering to the end of the nickel tab keeps the intense heat far enough away from the cell to ensure that it is not damaged."

I understand that with regard to cells that have two tabs.

But my question was / is, how do I connect the cells in series if they have only one tab as stated in the website for the Four Cell Developer Kit, HS-DK-4?

Do those cells in fact have two tabs, or only one tab as stated in the website?

If they have only one tab as stated, how do I connect them in series since soldering is forbidden?

Bob



DIALED/CHUCK -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (10/26/2006 1:22:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: A123 Racing

Hey Chuck, hows it going.

Brian


[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



...STILL WAITING FOR YOU GUYS TO GO PUBLIC!!! [:D] I'll hit you up early next week. I heard I-Hobby was awesome. Keep up the great work. This forum is excellent...lots of answers!

--C



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