RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (Full Version)

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OCR99 -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/15/2006 11:28:16 PM)

Brian
Can you charge more then one 3s19 pack at a time if you connect them to charger in parralle if so doese it thak twice as lone
Rick





totally losi -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/17/2006 6:03:38 PM)

I have some questions about your batteries dimensions. The 6.6v 2300mah 2s1pand 6.6v 4600mah 2s2p batteries have the same dimensions 153mmX28mmX53mm. How is that possible? Is the153mm the length,28mm the width,and 53mm the height of the battery? Does anyone have a XXX-4 & XXX-T that uses the 6.6v 4600mah battery? If so does the battery fit or did you have to modify something to make it fit?



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/21/2006 4:07:36 PM)

Hey Totally Losi,

The batteries do have different dimensions. The 2S1P is 153mm x 28mm Dia, and the 2S2P is 153mm x 28mm x 53mm. I have the xxx-T and the 2S1P fits pretty well. I do have to bend the strap down bar pretty good to get it to latch but with some muscle I can get it in with no mods. The 2S2P is another story, this battery is wider than the battery tray so you would need to do a little modification to your chassis to get it to fit.

If you are into racing I would recommend the 2S1P anyway. It is lighter and provides plenty of power for a race (8-10 minutes)

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

OCR99

Sorry you cannot charge the batteries in parallel on the charger. The balance ports on either battery would have to be plugged in and the charger does not support this.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



sonsight -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/21/2006 7:00:40 PM)

Hello again Brian.
I'm the fellow who inquired about your packs in a sailplane. I didn't see a 4S pack on your site. Would using your HS-SK-2S2P-2
product do the trick? Series or in parallel? Also, what voltage should I program my ESC to cut off?
Thanks again!
Jake



SS Pede -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/21/2006 10:14:10 PM)

Hey Brian, is there any possibility of having Powerpole (Sermos 30 amp) plugs installed on the battery/charger/turbo box when ordered? I like Powerpoles and I'd naturally want to avoid having to do the conversion myself. I think I heard this would void the warranty or something, but I thought I'd ask anyways just in case. [:D]

Thanks again for your time!



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/22/2006 3:55:08 PM)


Hello Sonsight

Yes the 2S1P starter kit would work very well just wire the batteries in series during flight. You can set your esc to 2.0V or if that is not an option you can simply turn it off. Our batteries are not damaged if they are brought to low. You don't want them to go below 1.0V / cell or the charger will have a difficult time with it. It would be extremely difficult for you to bring them down lower than this during use.

Hello Pede,

Unfortunately we cannot apply the power poles for you. If we began to customize packs we would quickly have far to many to do them time would allow. Can you make a Deans to power poles adapter to test the batteries, to make sure you do not need a return (I do not expect any problems but you should check for yourself to be sure) and then once you have confirmed for yourself they are working well then you can make the modification yourself, or simply continue to use the adapter…

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



sonsight -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/23/2006 2:08:29 AM)

Brian, I want to say just one thing....
THANK YOU FOR THE EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SUPPORT! This goes miles ahead of slick ads. Now I will be able to get my Condor Magic to altitude, without the fear of burning down a national forest, or my home for that matter!
Jake



imjonah -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/24/2006 6:08:14 PM)

Question 1
quote:

Hello Lee Jay, We do currently sell our loose cells on our website (www.a123racing.com) you can get four of them for $66. you can also get the balancing wires for these cells to allow you to create custom 2S and 3S packs that can still be used with our charger"


4 for $66 = $16.50 each I beleive. Your sale price for the same thing with balacing wires and deans plug is $49. Assuming most RC car people will be buying a pair that is $33 vs $100.
It seams like a pretty wide gap here in price. For around $40 for a pack that is equivalent in voltage and mah to a NIMH subC pack it would be pointless to tear one of those DeWalt packs apart, for $100 a pack it becomes a viabnle option.

Question 2 I am still uncertain about your answer to using other chargers besides the one you offer.
Let me phrase the question a bit differently, If I am willing to monitor the charging process carefully watching the relevent variables can I use other chargers.
For example contrary to what most people say you can use and decent NICAD charger to charge NIMH cells, as ling as you use a digital voltmeter and thermometer.



everydayflyer -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/24/2006 6:47:59 PM)

quote:

If I am willing to monitor the charging process carefully watching the relevent variables can I use other chargers.



Hope Brian does not mind me jumping in here.

There are many using A123 cells in pack configurations that are not available from A123 Racing. I am using 3S and 4S packs but some that I am aware of are using up to 13S packs.

Myself and others use Li-Ion / LiPoly chargers and also NiCad chargers . For the sake of safety I use a LiPoDapter when charging with a Ni charger and also use it with LiPoly charger for convince and safety.

Since a 7cell A123 and a 6S LiPoly charge to the same terminal voltage (25.2V) it is simple enough to use a LiPoly charger set for a 6S pack to charge a 7S A123.

A 9S Lipoly charges to 37.8 volts which would be 3.78 per cell for a 10S A123 which is close enough.
An 11S A123 charged as a 10S could likewise bee only a slight overcharge (3.81 per cell).

A Li charger with Li-Ion (3.6 / 4.1 V ) settings can get even closer on some combos.
10*4.1=41/11=3.72

A 3 cell A123 being charged on AF-109 ,charge tapered and terminated by hand.

Added a second Graph showing same 3 cell charged at 6.1A with LiPoDapter terminating charge..








Airbike -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (11/26/2006 5:53:52 PM)

Hi Brian,

I just read thru this thread and a couple of others and did not see it addressed, but has anyone posted on their experience using the A123 2S pack for a receiver and servo power application? Specifically for giant scale aerobats with 9-14 high power digital servos.

I would be comparing the 2S 2300 pack to say a Fromeco Li-ion 2S 2400 + regulator.

Since the M1 2S pack is only at 7.2v fully charged, I would not have to run a regulator. (There are people running 2S Li-po without regulators so the Rx and servos will take the higher voltage).

Dan



SS Pede -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/5/2006 5:28:43 AM)

So I heard a rumor that A123 was testing some cells for the 1/18th scale market. Interesting... [:D] But such cells might be too small/low capacity to use in 1/10th vehicles. I wonder if these will really come out. If they do, there's no excuse for not making a more standard sized cell for the 1/10th community! [:)] Anyways I'm glad to see A123 maybe branching out.



Waterlogged -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/6/2006 5:44:18 PM)

I would like to see a D-cell package for us 150A boat guys. -WL



calvinwill -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/7/2006 10:21:33 PM)

Will you make in the near future batteries the same size as current nimh/nicads? I would not mind a little less power to get 15 to 30 minute recharge times. This is what I have been looking for in RC hobby, updated battery technology. I have a couple of RC cars, trucks and two Tamiya Leopard A6 tanks and I would love to dump the current nimh/nicad batteries and chargers and replace them with 21st century battery tech.

Calvinwill



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/13/2006 10:19:22 PM)

So we were spotted testing some batteries in our 18th scale trucks. I can’t say what we are working on except; we are always in development looking for the next best thing, and we do know that our current battery packs do not fit in every single 1/10th scale vehicle.

Please let me know if you have more questions.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



SS Pede -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/14/2006 7:47:21 PM)

Hey Brian, thanks for the reply.

I know you may not be able to answer this question but...any idea when the smaller format packs might be coming out? I might pull the trigger on the current 2s2p pack and a charger before long to try to get the introductory price. But I'm curious about what the next batch of cells might look like. Do you have a general time frame at all?

Also, would the new packs be charged with the current charger?

I understand if you can't answer these questions, but I thought it was worth a try. Thanks for hanging around the forum. [8D]



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/14/2006 9:50:05 PM)

Hey Pede,

It is not soon enough that you would want to hold off on the packs you are currently looking into.

As for the charger, it has not been determined, but we will strive to apply it to the existing charger.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



Red Scholefield -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/17/2006 7:50:52 PM)

It appears that A123 racing is not aggressively addressing the electric flight opportunity where we have found that 4S2P packs are ideal for 40 size sport planes. Cells taken from DeWalt 36 volt packs are one viable solution and bring a 4S2P pack to the $80 range. quite a bit better than the $132 for the developer packs directly from A123. Fortunately the charger manufactures have recognized the opportunity and at least 3 (Xtrema, CellPro and Bantam BC-8) now offer chargers for these packs with programmable charge options not offered by the A123 racing chargers.

I am presently flying 4 models, Telemaster Electro, Sig 40 Rascal, Eliminator 40 and Tango Autogiro, with the 4S packs and have logged over 50 flights with no significant deterioration in delivered capacity.



everydayflyer -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/18/2006 10:06:42 PM)

Part of the problem is that to many LiPoly only users can not accept the fact that not all planes need the lightest batteries available.

The ones of us who have flow NiCads and NiMH batteries in sports planes in the past really aappreciate the simple fact that these are much lighter than Ni cells, supply very good amps. at good volts under load and are much lighter than Ni cells.
I have a 7 cell 2400 mAh Sanyo NiCad pack which weighs 17.7 ounces. It will fly my AF Cobalt 15 Powered SkyVolt but thats about it.In years past I used most 10 cell Sanyo SCR 1000 mAh packs which weighed approx. 18 ounces and a 3 min. flight was about max.

A 4S A123 pack weighs 11 ounces ,provide more volts and the SkyVolt fly great on it. Simple fact is it flys better with the 4S A123 than it does with two 3S 1320 LiPolys in parallel(7 oz.) . The A123 pack does not lose power during flight. The last min. is the same as the first. Most flights are 7 minutes and approx. 2000 mAh used.



FenceMagnet -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/20/2006 7:06:20 PM)

Hey Red, what motors are you using in those "40" conversions?

[:-]



Red Scholefield -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/20/2006 7:08:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FenceMagnet

Hey Red, what motors are you using in those "40" conversions?

[:-]


AXI 2826/12 on 12 X 8 or 13 X 6.5 APC E prop



rltucker -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/22/2006 12:43:47 AM)

Brian, are the cells offered on the A123 Systems website the same cells as those offered on the A123 Racing website?

The reason I ask is as follows:

The cells offered on A123 Systems are priced at 6 for $129, which is $21.50 per cell, while those offered on A123 Racing are priced at 4 for $66, which is "only" $16.50 per cell. That's a difference of five dollars per cell, yet the Specification sheets are identical except for the headings.

What is going on here? Does the left hand not know what the right hand is doing at A123, or are the cells in fact different in some way?

If the cells are different, exactly what is the difference and why isn't it shown on the Specifications sheets?

Robert Tucker



Red Scholefield -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/22/2006 1:15:09 PM)

" Does the left hand not know what the right hand is doing at A123?"

Apparantly not. In all my years in the battery business I've never seen such a screwed up product introduction, and in this case with a product that seems to have some real potential (no pun intended) and not just marketing hype.

I have both and can see no difference.



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/22/2006 5:26:48 PM)

Hello RLTucker,

Despite what some people may think, we do have a good handle on maketing and sales here. The cells being sold on A123Systems and A123Racing are indeed identicle, this is why the spec sheet is exactly the same. The difference lies in the tabs that are applied to the cells when they are sent out. The A123Racing cells have 2 small nickel tabs applied. We use these tabs because they are convenient for the hobbyist to work with, but are still small enough to not cause problems with assembly and installation. The A123Systems cells on the other hand have 4 large nickel tabs applied. These are applied for easy use in a lab environment when we have OEM’s evaluating the cells. These large nickel tabs are more expensive than the small ones and there are twice as many.

This is the reason for the Price difference.

Please let me know if you have any other questions, and Enjoy the Holidays.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]




Red Scholefield -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/22/2006 7:18:00 PM)

When modelers can buy your product via NEW DeWalt 36 volt packs on the Internet in a fair quantity for 40 to 50% less than it is being offered through the hobby markets and A123 racing, there is something lacking in your marketing strategy. You should be able to take your product to market via hobby channels where the end user can buy them at or near the same price as those that can be salvaged from DeWalt packs. I expect your manufacturing costs of the cells (with tabs) would allow both you, and the hobby retailer at least a 100% margin.



rltucker -> RE: A123Racing Battery Questions (12/23/2006 4:01:41 AM)

Brian:

You said, "These large nickel tabs are more expensive than the small ones and there are twice as many (my emphasis). This is the reason for the Price difference."

The photo on the Developer Kits page on the A123 Systems web site - that's the very same page where cells are priced at 6 for $129 - shows only one tab per end, and the A123 Racing web site mentions, "Single solder tab per side."

Please explain:

What do you mean by, "twice as many," with reference to the A123 Systems Developer Kits cell's tabs, in view of the fact that only two tabs are shown in the photo, one on each end?

Bob



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