A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (Full Version)

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A123 Racing -> A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/25/2006 3:42:51 PM)

Hello RC Universe, please use this forum for any questions regarding the Hypersonic Turbo system.

Brian


[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



guver -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/30/2006 3:09:55 AM)

Hi, thanks for being here.

What is price for turbo booster?
Are they seperate units for differing voltage ?or
does one unit do all voltage ranges?

If not what is the range and price for each unit? thanks



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/30/2006 5:06:25 PM)

Hello Udud,

To answer your question. The turbo box is a single module that works with all of our batteries. The module is sold with our batteries in the Hypersonic kits, go to www.a123racing.com for purchasing information. It is not currently sold individually mainly because it is not recommended for use with other batteries. The turbo module draws high amounts of current which our batteries are capable of delivering. Use with other packs may damage the Turbo module and/or your other battery.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]




guver -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/30/2006 5:16:38 PM)

Ok, Thanks, what is the voltage range (input and output) for each unit?
I think if I understand correctly it is the same module for the 7.2-10.8 and if I got that particular unit it would also work for 3S batts and go up to 14.4?



Bob93447 -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/30/2006 5:52:28 PM)

Brian,

Your batteries seem to operate at a slightly lower voltage than conventional Lithium Poly batties? I assume that the mandatory cut-off voltage is also lower. What is it? If I am configuring a system for aircraft operation that would normally be 6S, do I need to add a cell to work with your system?

Bob



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/30/2006 6:52:29 PM)

Hello Udud,

You have the voltages figured out. The 2S packs can output 7.2V-10.8V when the turbo module is used. The 3S pack can output 10.8-14.4 when the boost module is used. It is the same boost module, when you plug in the battery it auto senses what type it is, all you have to do is choose the voltage setting.

Bob, I answered your question in the battery thread.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



guver -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/30/2006 7:13:41 PM)

Thanks, man . Now I have to find a partner who needs the cells, lol. I want the booster only.



gniessen -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/31/2006 5:55:12 PM)

How is the cut-off handled? My concern is that if the Turbo module cuts off there will be no power to the ESC, which means no power to the receiver, which means crash. Even if I program a cut-off in the ESC it wouldn't cut in as long as the Turbo module is maintaining the programmed voltage. This seems problematic.



guver -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/31/2006 6:00:41 PM)

The turbo is a voltage booster, not a voltage cut-off. The voltage Brian is talking about is output voltage I think and is the same or higher than input voltage.

A related question, if 12 volts were supplied would the output still be 14.4 max? thanks.



gniessen -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/31/2006 6:58:41 PM)

If the Turbo Booster doesn't have a voltage cut-off it will seriously damage the batteries when the battery drops below the threshold and the output is still maintained. You would need some other device in between the battery and Turbo to monitor it.



guver -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (8/31/2006 7:31:46 PM)

These cells are supposed to be able to take that ok. They also fall off voltage very fast and with the booster it will make this condition even worse (better). I would love to hav batts like that, just like running out of gas. I'm not sure that it is best for them to kep being discharged low, and a lcv may also be a great idea.



clive45 -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/2/2006 7:36:08 AM)

It may seem a stupid question but how do you get 10.8v from a 2S(7.2v) battery at the current draws possible. How can the booster make something from nothing.



guver -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/2/2006 8:51:28 AM)

The voltage is stepped up and therefore the current must also be stepped up. The current capacity at the higher voltage is less than it is at lower voltage, but if you are not even close to limit then it works fine.

The total power shall remain the same (less a small loss)



newflyermx -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/8/2006 5:26:53 PM)

Bryan:
I Have a Multiplex Easy Star powered with a Warp 4 4 turn, Castle Creations Phoenix 25 ESC, and APC´s 6*4e Prop.
Do you recomend the Turbo System for this configuration?
2S1P or 3S1P?
Does the Turbo System Includes the Charger? Can you charge this batteries with a Hobbico Accu Elite Pro Charger / Cycler?
Do you need a balancer for this packs?
Thank you



ShellDude -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/10/2006 9:47:36 PM)

Hi Brian,

What is the voltage and amperage tolerance of the "Turbo" module? Specifically, what would happen if I ran two of your 2300 3S packs in series, in essence (6s1p) through the module?



Batfish -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/11/2006 4:10:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShellDude

Hi Brian,

What is the voltage and amperage tolerance of the "Turbo" module? Specifically, what would happen if I ran two of your 2300 3S packs in series, in essence (6s1p) through the module?


ShellDude,

I'm not an A123Racing representative, but I've learned quite a bit about them through working with Brian (for real-world results in cars/trucks) over the past couple months.

The turbo box is not designed to handle the kind of load you're asking about. The way to handle that would be with a turbo box on each battery pack, then wiring those two assembled units in series.

I haven't actually used a turbo box myself (I've been able to use the native voltage by just upping pinion teeth by a couple), but I should be testing one for them soon in the truck arena.

It sounds like you've had a similar success in your helis to that I've had in my cars/trucks. Great to hear! :)




Batfish -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/11/2006 4:12:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: newflyermx

Bryan:
I Have a Multiplex Easy Star powered with a Warp 4 4 turn, Castle Creations Phoenix 25 ESC, and APC´s 6*4e Prop.
Do you recomend the Turbo System for this configuration?
2S1P or 3S1P?
Does the Turbo System Includes the Charger? Can you charge this batteries with a Hobbico Accu Elite Pro Charger / Cycler?
Do you need a balancer for this packs?
Thank you


newflyermx,

Although I can't answer most of your post, I can tell you that the Hypersonic charger balances the packs while charging through a built-in balancer port. Each of the A123Racing packs has a balance lead that plugs into the charger.

Hope that helps!



ShellDude -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/11/2006 4:46:44 AM)

quote:

The turbo box is not designed to handle the kind of load you're asking about. The way to handle that would be with a turbo box on each battery pack, then wiring those two assembled units in series.


I hear ya and was already there logic wise but I figured I'd give it a shot. I still would like to know what the max volts and amps ratings are for these modules.

Since they're going through all the trouble to regulate voltage, they might as well just put an ESC in them... would've saved me some trouble this weekend :D Throw in a BEC and I'm sold!

You're the second person today (the other being Sid Kauffman) that suggested increasing my pinion size and running native. I'll have to noodle on that for a bit. I've got a 13T pinion on my heli now and a 14T and 15T sitting in my parts box. hmmm.....

Thanks for the reply,
Shell



Batfish -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/11/2006 2:18:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShellDude

quote:


You're the second person today (the other being Sid Kauffman) that suggested increasing my pinion size and running native. I'll have to noodle on that for a bit. I've got a 13T pinion on my heli now and a 14T and 15T sitting in my parts box. hmmm.....

Thanks for the reply,
Shell




Just remember that you may increase amp draw (it may also decrease, in some situations) when changing pinions. I mention this because of your findings in your other thread where you were at the limits of your Align ESC already.
It looks like you have a good handle on watching your electronics, but I wanted to throw that in there anyway :)

The last information I had was that the turbo box is good for 20A continuous and 70A peak. I'm pretty positive that the A123Racing engineers are working on the hardware, so I wouldn't be suprised at all if this information was dated. Hopefully Brian will chime in and set me straight on this one :)
As far as voltage, it should only be used on the 2s or 3s A123Racing packs, so I'd say the max recommended voltage is 9.9 nominal.




ShellDude -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/11/2006 5:28:37 PM)

Thanks for the info Joe.. much appreciated.



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/12/2006 1:57:16 AM)

Hello People,

To answer some questions about the Turbo Module.

GNiessesn, How is the Cutoff Handled?

When are batteries are used without a Turbo module the end of discharge occurs very rapidly around 93-95% discharge. When the turbo module is used this steep shoulder is enhanced. Allowing you to run longer at a high voltage. When the pack voltage reaches 2V/cell the turbo module will stop boosting the voltage. I would urge first time uses to bench test or Carefully test their vehicles before regular use, Especially in electric flight applications. In regards to the cut off voltage of the battery packs, we recommend a cutoff voltage of 2V/cell but the cells will tolerate under voltage (1V/cell) and over voltage (4.2V/Cell) due to the durability of the battery chemistry. (Please note that the over/under voltage numbers are applied at a cell level and can not be translated to a packs voltage unless it is properly balanced).

U-dud, if 12V were supplied would the output be 14.4V?

Hello U-dud, the turbo module will not function if 12V was supplied. It is to be used with A123Racing Hypersonic Batteries only 2S (6.6V) and 3S (9.9V). If used with other batteries you run the risk of damaging the Turbo module and/or the battery you are using.


Clive, How do you get 10.8V from a 2S (7.2) battery?

Hey Clive, Actually our 2S battery is only 6.6V. We are able to bring the voltage up to 10.8 with our turbo module because our batteries are capable of delivering very high current. We draw the extra current needed from the battery to boost the output voltage to the desired level. U-dud had it figured out. The loss in the module is about 5% no matter what setting you are on. You will see shorter run times when using the Turbo module because you have to draw more amperage to maintain the increased performance level.

newflyermx, What should I use for the Easystar plane.

Hello New Flyer, We have had people flying the Easystar with great success with our Hypersonic 9.9V 2300 pack. They have not been using the turbo in their applications. I will be getting one shortly if you are planning to make the purchase in a couple weeks I urge you to pop back in and ask. From what I have heard the battery drops right in and works flawlessly with the default settings.
We currently recommend that our batteries be charged on our Sonic Charge system for a few reasons. 1) Because it charges the batteries to the proper 3.6V/cell endpoint. 2) Because it has built in balancing capabilities. 3) Because it is a 10amp charge and will charge you battery very fast. If you use our charger you will not need a separate balancer.

Shelldude, What is the voltage and amperage tolerance of the Turbo module.

Please see above for voltage input usage. Batfish had good input though I will need to research series wiring capabilities tomorrow with our electrical engineers. In regards to the amperage that the turbo module can handle, a 3S pack at it's first voltage setting (10.8V) can handle about 20amps continuous. We are doing a variety of test to increase the amount of amperage that it can handle, I will keep the forum updated as the performance numbers are changed. Also, if your application falls within the specification of the turbo module I urge you to try it, however let me be the third person to suggest trying to increase the pinion size you are currently using if allowable by your other electronics.

Batfish

Thanks for your continued support in the forums, it can sometimes be hard to monitor them. We appreciate the backup.

Please feel free to ask any questions you may have and I will keep the forum update with any news on products.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]







ShellDude -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/13/2006 3:26:33 AM)

quote:

can handle about 20amps continuous


Brian can you please confirm which side of the connection the 20A continuous limation applies to. I had just finished responding to a post in my testing thread and am now concerned that there may actually be an issue there.

Thanks,
Shell



newflyermx -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/18/2006 12:59:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: A123 Racing

Hello People,

To answer some questions about the Turbo Module.

newflyermx, What should I use for the Easystar plane.

Hello New Flyer, We have had people flying the Easystar with great success with our Hypersonic 9.9V 2300 pack. They have not been using the turbo in their applications. I will be getting one shortly if you are planning to make the purchase in a couple weeks I urge you to pop back in and ask. From what I have heard the battery drops right in and works flawlessly with the default settings.
We currently recommend that our batteries be charged on our Sonic Charge system for a few reasons. 1) Because it charges the batteries to the proper 3.6V/cell endpoint. 2) Because it has built in balancing capabilities. 3) Because it is a 10amp charge and will charge you battery very fast. If you use our charger you will not need a separate balancer.

Please feel free to ask any questions you may have and I will keep the forum update with any news on products.

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]


Hi Brian.
I am very interested in the Hypersonic 9.9V 2300 pack. Just have a small isue.. Can you ship this to Mexico City?
Thank you



A123 Racing -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (9/20/2006 8:15:30 PM)

Hello Newflyer,

Unfortunately we are not yet shipping internationally, it is something that is in the works and will be available sometime in the near future.

Thanks

Brian

[image]http://www.a123racing.com/images/logo.gif[/image]



SS Pede -> RE: A123Racing Hypersonic Turbo Questions (10/30/2006 8:30:23 PM)

Hey all, I'm wondering about performance when the turbo module is used. I've heard that it can reduce power/punch a bit, but it *seems* like this is more of an issue when pushing the turbo box's limit with high voltage. If I even used a turbo module it would only be to boost a 2s pack to 8.4 volts tops, more often 7.2 volts. If anyone knows how this boost setting might limit punch, please let me know. I am hoping that with a relatively low amp draw setup I will not notice much of a performance lag.



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