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Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/1/2006 5:41:00 PM   
Gravityisnotmyfriend



Posts: 851
Joined: 3/1/2004
From: Greenville, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I'm finally gainfully employed and have decided to build a plane. Since I'll be spending a lot of time and money on this project, I want to make sure I pick the right plane to build. I'm looking for a 2 seater, preferably a taildragger, that has a decent cruise speed (~150+ mph) and decent short field capabilities. My dad has a 1300' grass runway at his house and I'd like to be able to get in and out of there. Here's what I see as my options:

Whitman Tailwind - It pretty much meets my criteria, but it is an old design. I can't help but think there has been a improvements in the last 50 yrs that would result in a better plane. It would be fairly inexpensive and easy to build.

RV-7 - Meets my criteria, but would be much more expensive to build. I have zero experience working with metal and rivets, but from my research it seems that anyone with a good amount of mechanical ability should be able to learn.

KR-2(S) - My dad has built two of these which means I would have a good resource if I run into any problems. It meets my criteria and is a really slick looking plane. It would be fairly inexpensive to build, but it would also be a lot of hard repetitive work. It is a composite plane which means lots and lots of sanding.

Long EZ - I would love to have one of these, but since Burt Rutan has gone on to conquer space travel, he doesn't sell plans or kits anymore. Another composite plane, which means lots of work and I hear that they are kind of runway hogs on take-off.

Does anyone have experience with these planes that they'd like to share? Any suggestions on a plane that is not listed here but would meet my criteria?

Thanks.


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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/1/2006 8:48:06 PM   
Robinaire



Posts: 766
Joined: 9/7/2002
From: West Palm Beach, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Grav! Look at the Sonex. It is one of the easiest, least expensive ones I know of, MUCH faster to build than an RC-7 and less money. It can be taildragger or tri-gear. There are 3 engine choices; AEROVEE, based on the VW, Jabiru 2200, about same hp as AEROVEE, but is better, tho more costly. and the Jab. 3300, a small flat 6 cyl. of 120 hp, and it will cruise at 170+! The Jabiru is made in Australia and all are easily available through Sonex.Try sonextalk@yahoogroups.com. It is a discussion group for owners, builders and wannabees. You will get a real education from their discussions, and a hundres guys are ready to answer any question about building you might have! I'm a "wannabee" !! If you have any trouble getting there, I'll dig up a more specific address. Lee Robinson W. Palm Beach, FL

(in reply to Gravityisnotmyfriend)
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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/1/2006 8:57:42 PM   
Robinaire



Posts: 766
Joined: 9/7/2002
From: West Palm Beach, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Grav; Go to www.sonexaircraft.com. That's the company website, with much info and how to join sonextalk. FREE! And they have a gallery of photos of projects. They can send you a reprint of the guy's (can't remember his name!!) who flew his Jab 3300 powered to Oshkosh and detailed the whole trip; speeds, fuel consumption etc. It will be an eye-opener! Lee

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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/1/2006 9:31:29 PM   
DT56


 

Posts: 156
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Lucedale, MS, USA
Status: offline 		The Long EZ is definitely not a short field plane! The RV4 is a terrific short field aircraft, with a cruise speed exceeding your requirements.

DT56

(in reply to Robinaire)
       Post #: 4

RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/2/2006 10:49:45 AM   
GRANT ED



Posts: 2610
Joined: 4/13/2003
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I am currently building an RV-7 with my dad. We are approaching the 1000 hour mark and have completed the tail and both wings while work on the fuse has started. I can highly recommend the RV series of aircraft. The kit quality is excellent and the finished product is one of the best flying planes around. If your worried about the cost then you can save some money by buying cheaper items. An example would be to get a mid life engine/prop combo instead of new.
One warning. Whatever plane you get it will cost more than you think. There are always hidden costs, we had to build a new shed to build our plane in.
If you have any more questions then just ask.

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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/3/2006 4:18:14 AM   
STLPilot


 

Posts: 9237
Joined: 3/12/2003
From: Manhattan, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I've got an RV-8 coming my way from AUS, about 1200 hours into it and he ran out of money, his loss my gain. I've looked at many kits and each time I find a new one, it brings me right back to this plane. The RV-8 has everything I'll ever need in a cruise/sport/aerobat. Let's just say I have not gotten a lot of sleep just thinking about what it will be like when I take off in it for the first time. Looks like it might be another restless nite again tonite.

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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/3/2006 2:12:19 PM   
Flyfalcons



Posts: 6146
Joined: 7/27/2002
From: Bonney Lake, WA, USA
Status: offline 		1300 foot runway won't give you any margin of error with any of the planes listed. I used to fly into runways that long with 206s and 207s and it was tight. You may need to sacrafice speed for better short field qualities if you want to fly from a 1300 foot grass strip.

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Cub flying - the new EXTREME SPORT!!! (evarrr)

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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/3/2006 2:56:08 PM   
LowFlyBye



Posts: 96
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Lebanon, TN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyfalcons

1300 foot runway won't give you any margin of error with any of the planes listed. I used to fly into runways that long with 206s and 207s and it was tight. You may need to sacrafice speed for better short field qualities if you want to fly from a 1300 foot grass strip.


I have to agree with Falcons...I would suggest something like the Glastar Sportsman 2+2. It is a 4 place aircraft with a cruise speed of 155 mph., ground roll of 400 ft., and 1,000 lb useful load. The back two seats fold down flat and allow for up to 300 lbs of bags, camping gear, etc. If I had the time to build, this would be my plane of choice. It can be converted from tailwheel to tri-gear in an hour or so which is a cool option as well although I would just leave it as a tailwheel all the time.

Check them out: http://www.glasairaviation.com/kitcontentsportsman.html

-Low

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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/4/2006 1:17:20 PM   
GRANT ED



Posts: 2610
Joined: 4/13/2003
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Taken from the Vans aircraft website

RV-7
Ground Performance - Gross Weight
160hp 180hp 200hp
Takeoff Distance 650 ft 575 ft 500 ft
Landing Distance 500 ft 500 ft 500 ft

Looks pretty good to me, if thats not good enough then the RV-9 is even better.

RV-9
Ground Performance - Gross Weight
118hp 135hp 160hp
Takeoff Distance 525 ft 500 ft 475 ft
Landing Distance 355 ft 410 ft 450 ft

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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/4/2006 1:32:03 PM   
Flyfalcons



Posts: 6146
Joined: 7/27/2002
From: Bonney Lake, WA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm willing to bet that those landing numbers are ground roll, not total landing distance (from 50'). If you approach at 65 knots then you are covering 110 feet per second during the approach. So can it be done, sure, but if you aren't on your game (doing it every day, several times a day), I certainly wouldn't want to be taking those planes into that short of a strip. Maybe the -9 but none of the high performance Vans planes. I've seen them fly into 1800 foot runways with a clear approach but there's a huge difference between 1800 feet and 1300 feet. I've ridden in a -4 and it comes in fairly quickly.

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Ryan Winslow

Cub flying - the new EXTREME SPORT!!! (evarrr)

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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/4/2006 1:46:37 PM   
GRANT ED



Posts: 2610
Joined: 4/13/2003
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		That maybe true but my dad used to be a part owner in an RV-6. I personally have seen this plane landed (100% safely) in some very short distances, I would estimate in the 500 foot mark.

Having said that an aircraft that is capable of these short field landings is no good if the pilot is not. A hamfisted pilot would have trouble landing any aircraft in 1300 feet.

It's up the aircraft builder to decide if the RV would be suitable or he wants a bigger safety margin.

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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/4/2006 2:28:58 PM   
LowFlyBye



Posts: 96
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Lebanon, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Having seen many vans aircraft land on our 2800 foot field, I would say that I would not want to take one into a field that is 1300 feet. I love the Van's line and not that the plane could not do it, but the aircraft was designed for speed and agility, not ruggedness and short fields. Lets not forget the Vans Dance that the landing gear tend to do on a grass strip. If you have ever seen the main gear on a Van's aircraft on grass you know just what I mean. It looks like the main gear are actually walking the plane down the runway. Not something that I would want to subject my plane too on a routine basis.

-Low

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_____________________________

To most people the sky is the limit. To a pilot the sky is home.

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RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/4/2006 2:32:11 PM   
LowFlyBye



Posts: 96
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Lebanon, TN, USA
Status: offline 		F1-Rocket

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_____________________________

To most people the sky is the limit. To a pilot the sky is home.

(in reply to LowFlyBye)
       Post #: 13

RE: Building a plane, need suggestions on what to build. - 9/4/2006 2:33:46 PM   
LowFlyBye



Posts: 96
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Lebanon, TN, USA
Status: offline 		RV-8