hpi baja.... race car or not???  
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hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 8:22:34 PM   
carpy100


 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		hi chaps! it has come to my attention that the roots of the baja are unclear .
the lads down one of the clubs i frequent claim that the baja is only a toy! but i'm sure i have read on here in the past that hpi sold the buggy as a serious race contender? i'm not stoking the baja fire just trying to clarify the standing of the baja on the race circuit. i know that the brca made theyre scruitineering sizeing box bigger to accomodate the baja so i can only assume that it is treated and has been marketed as a race car?
answers from hpi distributors would be appreciated, also information on hopups to make these cars more race worthy would be appreciated.
kind regards,
paul.

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RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 8:52:30 PM   
Timmahh



Posts: 2666
Joined: 2/24/2006
From: midland, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Paul,

well i cant speak personally as there is no 1/5th offroad race circut here in Michigan, that is until we create our own. but i watched a vid from a guy in Finland, he took some vids of the Finish 1/5th offroads, and per his words
I hope Karsta doesnt mind i used his post from the HPIBAJAFORUM here without his permission. sorry Karsta if you do.



quote:

Kartsa
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: Aug 19, 2006
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:21 am Post subject: Racing in Finland Reply with quote
Hello everyone,

Please take a look to the finnish FG Race. Baja dominated this competition against Leopard, Beetle and Monster Trucks.

http://jesi.5cyl.net/RC/tmp/vids/FG%20Off-Road%20Cup%2013.8.2006.mpg

KW

^^^ the vid will load but it may be slow, its about 15+ minutes long.^^^

i say this time next year, you ll see MANY MANY Bajas in the WINNER circle. i heard another Baja owner in the UK say he has been winning with his stock Baja, and anohter say he is puttign a Beatle Body on his, becuz there are going to be 5 more Bajas at his track in about a month, and he needs to know which one is HIS !! so they dont pick up the wrong one and put IT in the Winners Circle!!!!

Hope ups are, pretty much any engine you want to use from the stock 23cc to the fully ESP worked Zenoah 260. to highly Moded CY 30.5 cc engines. for much of the flat type terrain you chaps tend to race on, i would suggest a JetPro v2 pipe, or the soon to be ready HPI tuned pipe. i understand even Samba is going to get a pipe going for it.. but for what you get, i d say use the XCan so you can SOUND GOOD while looking good in the winner circle!!

non motor hop ups are becomign plenty with things like: Carbon Fiber parts, ie radio plate, braces , brake plate, and brake pad plates, CF Body nose and side pannels, wheel extenders which wont help you guys do to the extra width, and a slew of other items coming out like alum rear a arms, aluminum beadlocks, soon rims... and the custom sand paddles i made ( from anohter poster on the HPIBAJAFORUM).

by XMas this year, you ll be flooded with cool new parts and hopeups for the baja so it can look as pretty and stylish in the Winners Circle event after event next year.


Timmahh

(in reply to carpy100)
       Post #: 2

RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 9:28:55 PM   
carpy100


 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		bloody hell fire!!! that was good going the baja driver was a far superior driver as his lines clearly showed. you cannot take any car on monster rims as a benchmark as they simply do not perform as well as race tyres. trhe bajas deffinitely soak up the bumps, but i would say this track is bumpier than most uk national tracks. i have raced 6 bajas now and beat them all with a very heavily modified marder (which on a 60 second lap track is circa 3 seconds slower than a lauterbacher/ harm/hormann.)bearing in mind i have been racing against ian oddie who is world champion(or not off road if mr wigz beats him in the last national ).
there is one baja in the uk i am yet to do battle with that is driven by a 1 1/8 rallycross driver that is very good. i hope to race him soon to put things in real perspective. i know one strong point of the baja is the lack of grip roll, a common trait of cars that have theyre suspention/ tyres dialled into a track when driving on the limits of the chassis. the bajas suspention seems to absorb this. what i will say is that the baja seems to swap ends very easily due to the length/ width ratio of the chassis. i have raced a baja that was running the wheel drive conversion with yellow dot soft race compound fg pattern tyres, he had the same handling problems.
i really cannot see the baja taking national level trophies, but at club level it certainly has potential as clearly shown, as it is a very forgiving chassis re bumps and pipe contact. i wish all baja drivers well, but beware the odd modified marder

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RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 10:57:25 PM   
Apache-


 

Posts: 439
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Amsterdam, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		My opinion is NO - the baja is not a racer, it is a basher.
To say it is a toy, yes it is, they are all toys, huge, but toys.

It is not fair to compair full alloy cars with a straight from the box plastic car.
Especially on astro turf tracks it won't keep up.
But as it counts for all cars it is for >>80% the pilot that makes the differance together with a good set-up.

Putting on a 30.5cc kit if you want to race ain't a wise thing. It is NOT allowed. 26CC maximum.
People tend to think they are faster with more cc on board.
Power in the low and mid area is what you need in off-road.
Besides power, it is far more important to find traction to use the power you have on board - wheelspin is lost energy.

26CC is not a must. A 23CC well balanced/tuned engine can outran a tuned 26, it depens a lot on the track as well.

If you fancy to go racing go to watch races, talk with pilots and ask why they drive the car they drive and not something else.
They'll be happy to tell you from their experience as many of them had several cars before already so they can compare well.

(in reply to carpy100)
       Post #: 4

RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 11:18:32 PM   
carpy100


 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		as far as astroturf is concerned you are so very wrong! i find this is a common criticism of this site, views not backed by experience.
on the contrary, the stock hp[i baja tyres are awsome on astroturf! infact only second to hormann cross and dot tyres.they are very similar to the sld killer tyres that are controversially the best all round tyres currently on the market!they are controversial due to the walls being less than 2mm thickness. this is under half the thickness that most race tyres are typically constructed of. this does allow the tyre more supple adhesion over rough/hard terrain, but does obviously dramatically shorten the life of the tyre.the price of a race winning tyre within the affordable realms of the average user must be weighed up. the baja has performed at its best on astroturf as i have seen at national level in the uk. as demonstrated at the nook raceway.again as i said in my previous post, the baja doesn't suffer grip roll that is suffered by similar cars with a dialled in tyre/chassis set up.

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RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 11:33:35 PM   
carpy100


 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		i must also add some food for thought, a 26cc will never rev as high as a 23cc motor. and at the end of the day you need mid to top end power around a race track, indeed for bashing as well.the 23cc is much more useable power as these things have more power than most competent drivers can useably manage. you have atl east 1800 rpm more with a 23cc motor which equates to an immediately higher top end without intricate gearing. also the 23cc motor is stronger due to being thicker walled and less stressed.the cy motor is a far superior motor in terns of machineing/casting. i beg any tuner to tell me different!as far as hopup parts are concerned, it will make the baja stronger but will not eradicate the fundemental chassis issues of the baja, in terms of the length/ width ratio which is detremental to the cornering characteristics of this car.

< Message edited by carpy100 -- 9/1/2006 11:35:59 PM >

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RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 11:36:30 PM   
Apache-


 

Posts: 439
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Amsterdam, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		I know more cars that do not suffer grip rolls. This has a lot to do with your set-up of the car. To say the baja does not roll due to grip, hmm saw different here. In the UK you have just 2 astro-turf tracks as we here in Holland and Belgium have astroturf on each track. But maybe it is a fully different one than yours and there are hughe differences in types of astro turf and the grip they provide.

What I saw thusfar is that the car does not perform as other cars. Than I am not refering to its end-speed determined by engine power but to corner handeling compared with the other cars. I deffinately do not say it is a bad, on the contrary.
IMO it is the best bang for the buck on the market at this moment, great value for the money.
But if you want to compete on top-level in the nationals (I presume you do run the LSOR BRCA meetings looking to your posts) then my personal opinion differs from yours. You asked in the subject if we think it is a race car, I just gave my opinion.
But I would like to see more of them attending races, it would be good to see them so we can compare more. And hey in time small things will change the car will improve over time and it would be only good when it wins races. It will force other brands to go back to design something better faster etc.

(in reply to carpy100)
       Post #: 7

RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 11:44:38 PM   
Apache-


 

Posts: 439
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Amsterdam, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carpy100

i must also add some food for thought, a 26cc will never rev as high as a 23cc motor. and at the end of the day you need mid to top end power around a race track, indeed for bashing as well.the 23cc is much more useable power as these things have more power than most competent drivers can useably manage. you have atl east 1800 rpm more with a 23cc motor which equates to an immediately higher top end without intricate gearing. also the 23cc motor is stronger due to being thicker walled and less stressed.the cy motor is a far superior motor in terns of machineing/casting. i beg any tuner to tell me different!as far as hopup parts are concerned, it will make the baja stronger but will not eradicate the fundemental chassis issues of the baja, in terms of the length/ width ratio which is detremental to the cornering characteristics of this car.


I agree fully to your engine point of view.
As for the CY, I used to share your opinion until a month ago when I lost power.
I tokk the CY apart and found the nicasil layer was gone on many places. I am back to Zen again.

Cornering characteristics are not just determined to length/width ratio. Length-width are not that important.
More less steering is determined most by placement of roll-center and amount of set caster. Put rings between your upperarm and your hub, try and experiment with this (roll center) and change caster and see what it brings you. Cornering (or rolling through the corner) is determined with the amount of ackerman you put in your car.
Setting up a front-end correct is the most difficult thing there is on a car.
Further you can play with camber and try to eliminate bumpsteer as much as possible are both other chapters. These things all combined are that complicated that I can be a life study.

< Message edited by Apache- -- 9/1/2006 11:50:00 PM >

(in reply to carpy100)
       Post #: 8

RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 11:48:23 PM   
carpy100


 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		apache, i respect your opinion. you obviously have experience in your country with racing. although the race scene in this country may be slightly different, infact i am in my first season of racing myself, but as you probably know, you learn an awful lot about these machines than most, very quickly once you enter the world of racing.i will be coming over to holland to race on the indoor tracks in november. i cant wait! and i do expect to struggle on this type of sandy terrain which is the norm on these horse parade stadiums.which are well suited to the baja, which in turn highlights the difference in performance of the baja on your country's race circuit.

< Message edited by carpy100 -- 9/1/2006 11:56:46 PM >

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RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 11:52:36 PM   
carpy100


 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apache-


quote:

ORIGINAL: carpy100

i must also add some food for thought, a 26cc will never rev as high as a 23cc motor. and at the end of the day you need mid to top end power around a race track, indeed for bashing as well.the 23cc is much more useable power as these things have more power than most competent drivers can useably manage. you have atl east 1800 rpm more with a 23cc motor which equates to an immediately higher top end without intricate gearing. also the 23cc motor is stronger due to being thicker walled and less stressed.the cy motor is a far superior motor in terns of machineing/casting. i beg any tuner to tell me different!as far as hopup parts are concerned, it will make the baja stronger but will not eradicate the fundemental chassis issues of the baja, in terms of the length/ width ratio which is detremental to the cornering characteristics of this car.


I agree fully to your engine point of view.
As for the CY, I used to share your opinion until a month ago when I lost power.
I tokk the CY apart and found the nicasil layer was gone on many places. I am back to Zen again.

Cornering characteristics are not just determined to length/width ratio. Length-width are not that important.
More less steering is determined most by placement of roll-center and amount of set caster. Put rings between your upperarm and your hub, try and experiment with this (roll center) and change caster and see what it brings you. Cornering (or rolling through the corner) is determined with the amount of ackerman you put in your car.
Setting up a front-end correct is the most difficult thing there is on a car.

im very sorry apache! when i wrote the cy was better i infact meant the zen!!! i am very embarrased! but at least this proves we have the same findings, which i know most people on this forum will find to there expense .
kind regards,

paul.


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the lunatic is on the grass...

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RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/1/2006 11:58:35 PM   
Apache-


 

Posts: 439
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Amsterdam, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Siegerswoude will be an excellent meeting again
That is a track where the baja would do very well. Huge-huge bumps in the soft sand after 3 minutes of driving.
Actually together with Exloo (other indoor meeting in february) these are the only two sand tracks left since Nesselande had to close their door.
You won't be dissapointed coming over! As I understood a lot of you are coming over isn't it 10-15 or so? Ian, Pete, Andy, Kev, Mat will all be here I believe?
See you there!

(in reply to carpy100)
       Post #: 11

RE: hpi baja.... race car or not??? - 9/2/2006 12:11:50 AM   
carpy100


 

Posts: 1094
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: oxon. england, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		i have been very fortunate to get involved with the nene valley race team, lead by mark higgins(wigz) who currently holds second place to the legendary ian oddie! i am not sure who is coming over but i know that myself, mark higgins, bill pridding, jaco van desterren and a few others from the nene are coming over, along with more of our natioinal drivers. the brcalsor championship has come very excitedlly down to the wire with ian holding first place.what is your real name, as i look forward to seeing you there
kindest regards,
paul.




have you looked here...
http://www.nenevalleyraceway.co.uk/Forum/index.php
http://www.largescaleoffroad.co.uk/Results.html

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the lunatic is on the grass...

(in reply to Apache-)