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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Drum Freight
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Drum Freight - 9/3/2006 12:29:43 AM   
grotto2



Posts: 328
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: Palm Bay, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I'm trying to get a rough estimate of fuel cost.

Can anyone who's freighted themselves a 55 gallon drum of fuel lately in conus recall what it cost?

I wonder if the freight costs are very distance sensitive.

Thanks in advance,
grotto2

< Message edited by grotto2 -- 9/3/2006 12:55:05 AM >

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RE: Drum Freight - 9/4/2006 2:15:30 AM   
loughbd


 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Unless you can ensure that the unused fuel won't get contaminated buying it by the drum probably isn't a great idea. If you can keep dry nitrogen in the drum or transfer it into individual bottles or cans then OK. But think about the air that's in a half full drum and how much water vapor is in it. That's why Sheldon kept his fuel drums charged with dry nitrogen. Just a thought.

(in reply to grotto2)
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RE: Drum Freight - 9/4/2006 5:53:03 AM   
grotto2



Posts: 328
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: Palm Bay, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for your concern, but I've been buying fuel this way for years. I've got a gob of jugs to which I transfer the fuel all at once.

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RE: Drum Freight - 9/4/2006 5:04:59 PM   
loughbd


 

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From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		That's what I meant when I said to transfer it to bottles or cans.

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RE: Drum Freight - 9/5/2006 4:01:25 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7728
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Dry nitrogen and immediate transfer is not required. Just don't put a pump that doesn't seal on it. Other wise seal the container after each use.

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RE: Drum Freight - 9/5/2006 8:02:36 PM   
loughbd


 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Ah but it is. When the drum has only 10 or 15 gallons left in it there is a 45 gallon airspace in the drum. This air holds a significant amount of water vapor which the hygroscopic methanol will absorb. Everytime you open the drum or pump out some of the fuel, more air goes into the drum. By the time you get to the last 10 or so gallons they are contaminated. Especially in humid areas. That's why guys like Ron Sheldon and other fuel makers keep dry Nitrogen in the partially used drums. Sealing the drum won't keep out the air that enters as the fuel is removed.

That is another reason to keep your fuel can as full as possible at all times. Small airspace means no air with water vapor.

I was in a club that bought fuel in drums once. It took well over a year to use all the 55 gallons the first time and by the time we got around to the last 10 or so gallons it was contaminated. The next time we bought a drum, we put it in cans and plastic bottles as soon as we got it and kept them in a cool dark area. Everyone saved their old cans for this purpose. It doesn't take 25 guys long to acquire 55 one gallon cans.

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RE: Drum Freight - 9/6/2006 1:48:48 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

This air holds a significant amount of water vapor which the hygroscopic methanol will absorb.


Flat wrong. At 85 degrees F. and 100 % humidity air will hold .03 pounds of moisture per pound of air and has a density with moisture of .069 pounds per cubic foot. There are 7.48 gallons per cubic foot so there are 6 cubic feet per gallon. So that means there are just .414 pounds of air with .012 pounds of water. With water density at 62.4 lbs per cubic foot that would be 8.34 lbs per gallon so that would be .000147 gallons in the remaining 10 gallons so that would be .0147 percent.

I doubt all fuel mixing companies use nitrogen, though I am told many do. It would have to be recycled to be economical.

quote:

It took well over a year to use all the 55 gallons the first time and by the time we got around to the last 10 or so gallons it was contaminated.


Most likely from evaporation. On a hot day the methanol has a high vapor pressure and the evaporation rate at is huge. Unless it is quickly capped up after use a large amount of alcohol will eveaporate leaving a larger percentage of oil and nitro. Also if they left a hand pump on the fuel then it can evoporate, then contract, bringing in fresh air. Over an extendended time you will have a large amount of water and a larger amount of alcohol would have evaporated.

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 9/6/2006 1:56:24 PM >

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RE: Drum Freight - 9/6/2006 7:26:49 PM   
loughbd


 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		It all boils down to the fact that either way the fuel becomes unusable if left in the drum for any length of time. Like I said if you are going to buy by the drum you probably should put it in individual cantainers right at the start.

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RE: Drum Freight - 9/8/2006 5:17:09 AM   
captinjohn


 

Posts: 5847
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Hesperia, MI, USA
Status: offline 		What is the average cost of shipping on a 55 Gal drum of fuel? Thanks Capt,n

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RE: Drum Freight - 9/8/2006 5:31:45 PM   
loughbd


 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Bremerton, WA, USA
Status: offline 		It ain't cheap anymore. Not since the EPA got into the act. Even buying by the gallon mail order got ridiculous. UPS charges about 4 bucks a gallon hazardous material fees

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RE: Drum Freight - 12/26/2006 4:07:25 AM   
grotto2



Posts: 328
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: Palm Bay, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks to all who responded.

And now for the answer:

I received two drums recently and the total shipping was approximately $230.

Here's the deal: Drums are shipped at a pallet rate. That means the more you order the lower the total price. My dealer impressed me with this fact enough for me to double my order.

Next time I'll collect orders for three drums.

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RE: Drum Freight - 1/10/2007 12:25:16 AM   
Fuel Dinosaur


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Warrenton, GA, USA
Status: offline 		When you get a full barrel of club fuel, it is a good idea to dispense it ALL on arrival. Use new or recleaned HDPE bottles with a good seal and fill at least to the 1 gallon mark on the bottle. Do not leave fuel in barrels that are not coated for any length of time after delivery. The old fuel mixing dinosaur.

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RE: Drum Freight - 1/10/2007 12:25:19 AM   
microsprint9



Posts: 417
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: london, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		grotto2 I see your right near the heart of racing land, you should find your nearest sprint car track, those cars go thru 30-40 gal of methanol a night, i'm sure you could split your shipping with one of these guys as during the season they probably go thru 10 55gal drums.

< Message edited by microsprint9 -- 1/10/2007 12:26:21 AM >

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RE: Drum Freight - 1/10/2007 3:10:56 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7728
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		No sprint cars in Georgia either.

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RE: Drum Freight - 1/10/2007 7:19:40 PM   
grotto2



Posts: 328
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: Palm Bay, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: microsprint9

grotto2 I see your right near the heart of racing land, you should find your nearest sprint car track, those cars go thru 30-40 gal of methanol a night, i'm sure you could split your shipping with one of these guys as during the season they probably go thru 10 55gal drums.




Ha-Ha!
Methanol I can get. Nitro's always the problem.

In case anyone's curious, we emptied the two drums in two evenings directly into reclaimed jugs. About 10% of the jugs developed pinhole leaks, but I have plenty of spares. This was a two man job, although the wives pitched in a bit. We have a wooden frame with a bolt-on ramp made of two boards. We screw in a standard water faucet first, and then the two of us lay the drum on it's side and roll it up the ramp. There's a mark on the ramp where you have to have to start the faucet at to assure it will be in the right place when it rolls over into it's cradle. We empty the drum through a funnel that has a stainless filter in it. The very last gallon requires tha