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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 5:01:16 AM   
zope_pope



Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Aurora, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I See. Where can i get it in the raw material, and would I want to make rivets and screws before attaching the plates? Also, how does one work with Lithoplates?

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 5:07:41 AM   
Grumpy1940


 

Posts: 272
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		Yep! Steve, thats correct!
litho is raw aluminium plate, used in printing. normally u get it free from printing stores. thickness is between 0,35-0,5mm. 1/60 inch?
about. i hammer all the details to plate before glueing! and make the panels in correct order. usually from tail to tip.
panel by panel. so those are rised correctly or flush lines.
rised rivets is done in 2 steps. 1st hammer back side of plate with ballend dremel tool , flip plate around and hammer with sharpened tube on hard surface(metal) then u have perfekt rised rivet. (in pic)
normal rivets just sharpened tube from frontside.(hammering)
dont forget annealing before hammering. litho is too hard for good rivets without heat.
it stays soft after cooling, so there is no hurry.



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< Message edited by Grumpy1940 -- 9/28/2006 5:09:44 AM >

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 5:45:28 AM   
Grumpy1940


 

Posts: 272
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		and ou yes for screws. rised screws i use real ones and flush screws is hammered by special tool made from small screwdriver and sharpened tube. and the wax i use .... brand is world finest release. bu t i think any release wax is good.
in pic u see all type of screws i used. ballend screw, flat screw, and hammered screw(in windscreen frame). in ready made fuse.


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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 6:12:37 AM   
zope_pope



Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Aurora, CO, USA
Status: offline 		How did you get the litho plates to conform to the curves of the plug. Is this the hammering you were talking about? I am guessing this took place before the rivets were detailed.


So in my build, I have the wings framed up and am about to sheet them. I have the fuse structure framed but not finished. I still need the turtle deck, to finish the radiator scoop, the nose, etc. So its far from being built...

If I wanted to use the method you are using, what is my next step? I am such a newbie to composites its not funny. I just think if I go all wood construction the airplane will end up quite heavy and fly like a dog compared to composites. Not to mention the added details and the ease of reproduction (if done right). Thanks again.

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 6:26:37 AM   
Grumpy1940


 

Posts: 272
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		after heating start pressing from center of panel with balsa block. use painters tape step by step so panel stays on place.
i have pics only tailplane leading edge processing. hope it helps the idea. 1st shape the panel, then rivets, then glue.

im glad i can help.



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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 6:31:23 AM   
zope_pope



Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Aurora, CO, USA
Status: offline 		All the wood was fiberglass pre litho plates right? What kind of glue are u using to glue the plates?

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 7:25:14 AM   
XE521



Posts: 81
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Ottobrunn, nr. Munich, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Hi Grumpy, as Steve said you should call yourself 'Veryhappy'. Are you a fan of Scneewittchen by any chance? Also out of curiosity why 'Grumpy'?
What's your source for detail?
No dig at zope_pope's kite but there's no other aircraft in the world to beat the graceful lines of a Spit or a Mossie. The Mossie is projected for next year. you have unwittingly solved my problem of what to use of the cowling of my next project (a Cievre C.30 Autogyro). So I'll be off to the printers to see if I can pick up some material. Many thanks for the detailed rundown on your project, it's just great to be able to pick up tips and tricks from others.

Cheers, Karl.



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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 7:44:59 AM   
XE521



Posts: 81
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Ottobrunn, nr. Munich, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Hi zope_pope, in your position I would finish the project that you're doing and then go over 100% to composites. Changing horses in the middle of the stream is just a compromise and compromises have a habit of not quite working out correctly. Then you loose the money that you have invested in the original project and maybe also the inclination to do it right way. Ok, if you have stacks of cash to throw out of the window send some to me, I promise that I'll not complain.

Regards, Karl.

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 8:03:31 AM   
Grumpy1940


 

Posts: 272
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		LOL! i stoled the nickname from George 'Grumpy' Unwin who flown my prototype plane in Battle of Britain.
yes i glassed all parts before lithoplate! double curvature area should do double glass. so its doesnt bend under pressure with balsa block! glue is normal Bostik contact glue. put very carefully panels on place. glue sticks in second!! if going wrong use littlebit heat and u can pull the panel away!

Cheers

Jukka

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 8:10:34 AM   
Grumpy1940


 

Posts: 272
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		...man i have short memory!!! i have factory blueprints on cd from mk1a spitfire. and 3000pictures on cd. my friends have helped a lot when they took pictures in museums. and i have 3 documents dvd's from Battle of Britain also. im kinda fanatic on mk1a....
half the time i have spent studing photos.

< Message edited by Grumpy1940 -- 9/28/2006 8:22:20 AM >

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 10:37:34 PM   
SCALECRAFT


 

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Joined: 1/7/2002
From: MONTEBELLO, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Grumpy

This is where most of the arfs fall way short, don't you think??

That H stab looks fantastic!!! Curved at that!! Your gonna push me to do some detailed plug making too. Damn!!

Steve

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/28/2006 11:16:10 PM   
zope_pope



Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Aurora, CO, USA
Status: offline 		That stab is so pretty. I am guessing the LE of the stab is glued ontop of the other sheeting? That airplane is going to be a beauty!

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/29/2006 3:36:51 AM   
Grumpy1940


 

Posts: 272
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: vantaa, FINLAND
Status: offline 		Thanks! indeed ARFs should be more detailed! yes litho is on glassed tailplane.

one more small trick if u choose to work with litho plate. use scotch brightening after u have glued the panels on plug.
it smoothens all sharp edges in litho lightly... result much easier release.

cheers

Jukka

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/29/2006 4:12:09 AM   
XE521



Posts: 81
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Ottobrunn, nr. Munich, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Good morning Grumpy,

up nice and early I see.
Where did you get your CDs from and do you know if the supplier also has the same kind of data for the Mossie?

Cheers, Karl.

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RE: Airplane to Composite Airplane - 9/29/2006 4:57:56 AM   
zope_pope



Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Aurora, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Hey grumpy,

I meant did you curve the leading edge of the stab over other litho plates, or are the other litho plates just butting up against it? I guess this would depend on how the real plane is. This technique is really cool, and yes, ARF's have no detail what so ever. I think a scale model should be at the very least, kit built. ARF scale model is kind of a stupid concept if you ask me.

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