RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       

All Forums >> Electric Aircraft Universe >> Electric Pattern Aircraft >> RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A
Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3]

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 9/20/2006 2:23:09 PM   
can773



Posts: 1611
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Malcolm H

Chad,

Thanks for the scoop (sorry couldn't resist it!) on the cooling. Why is the top of the baffle angled across the cowl rather than normal to the centre line? Is this to help promote rearward airflow?

Malcolm


Hi Malcolm,

Its just the way I ended up gluing it in place, I dont think that it matters much. When I did it on Adams plane it was not angled and worked just as good. I think the smooth curve is the important point.


_____________________________

Chad Northeast

(in reply to Malcolm H)
       Post #: 51

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 9/22/2006 12:08:17 AM   
OhD


 

Posts: 397
Joined: 10/23/2002
From: west hills, CA, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: can773

Hi Jim

Very interesting. How does the pole count of a motor fit into all of this?

I have spoken to Pletty a fair bit about temperature, they have little concern about taking can temperatures up near 80C. My personal experience shows that to not cause any noticable problems. Neodymium should deal with at least 100C from my understanding.

Hi Jim

Another thought, by lowering the kV you will in turn reduce the rpm that the motor will turn assuming voltage is constant, which in reality a 10A drop it wont appreciably change. So at lower rpm, the torque needed to turn the prop at that rpm is lower, so I am not seeing how you can keep a constant torque in your calculations.




Hi Chad,

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I tried but was unable to explain the low rpm people are seeing with the big props on their outrunners with high Kv. You were right. There didn't seem to be enough resistance in the system to explain the low effective voltage at the motor. It appeared that there was something non-linear going on. I finally talked to Bob Boucher at Astro-flight and before I could finish explaining my dilemma, he said it is not caused by resistance. The problem is commutation time. The outrunners have higher inductance and more poles. More poles means you have less time to switch the polarity and more inductance means you can't switch it as fast. I'm going to have to do more reading but this makes sense. I also don't know if it is bad to run like this, since it is not resistance there is no additional motor heating (other than the normal IR drop). Bob indicated there could be additional heating in the ESC and battery caused by circulating currents.

At this point my approach will be to test and see for myself what can be done. I should have some numbers on the Hacker A60 soon.

Jim O

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 52

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 9/22/2006 6:52:06 AM   
Benoit


 

Posts: 64
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Cortil-Noirmont, BELGIUM
Status: offline
Hi Dean,
Thank you for the suggestion.
Actually, as my batteries stays pretty cool, I don't feel the need to control their T° in a better way. For the cold days, I will see if the air coming from the motor keeps the batteries happy?
I will try to improve the cooling for the motor as it seems that 67°C is on the high side.
It's true that I wait 10' between flights for cooling purpose on the 30°C days, which is pretty hot for Belgium

quote:

ORIGINAL: DPappas_atwork

Hello Benoit,
I notice your clever ducting ... may I make a suggestion? The next improvement is to segregate the motor cooling path from that of the ESC and batteries.
I use a similar duct to deflect about 1 square-inch (6 square centimeters) of inlet into an airbox that surrounds the front of the motor. The airbox leads to a duct that fits tightly around the motor (3 mm gap) and forces air to flow both through the motor and close to the case. Air outlets take that hot out of the plane before the firewall (electron wall?)
The rest of the cool air inlet then cools the batteries. Cooler is always better for the motor, but not for the batteries. This allows me to partially block the battery inlet for flying in cold conditions. When flying at 5 ~ 7 C with pre-warmed batteries, I can still get 40C post flight temperatures.

later Friends,
Dean Pappas







_____________________________

Just Fly

(in reply to Dean Pappas)
       Post #: 53

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 9/22/2006 6:57:25 AM   
Benoit


 

Posts: 64
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Cortil-Noirmont, BELGIUM
Status: offline
Hi Chad,

Thank you for sharing your scoop. I will try the smooth curved baffle. (mine is straight)



quote:

ORIGINAL: can773

Here is the cooling,

I think its important to curve the scoop as smooth as possible, and to limit the flow area under the motor to help drive the air to the back.

Anyways give it a try

Let me know if you have any questions on the pictures.



_____________________________

Just Fly

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 54

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 9/26/2006 4:59:58 PM   
Sprink



Posts: 2236
Joined: 4/23/2003
From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
OK, have adjusted the settings on the esc and all is now looking far better. Most the time it now starts correctly first time, perhaps it just needed running in? LOL

I have got the proportional brake set now, at quite a high level, and I really like the level of control it gives me. The steady downlines makes it very controllable. I have the travel volume set on the slider, so could alter it during the flight depending on whether the downline is straight down, or a 45degree or part of a loop, but I haven't tried that yet. I am pretty good at flying the throttle anyway, so have been using that instead. Helps for landing as well, if you are coming in too fast!

_____________________________

"If it doesn't break, it is probably too heavy"

(in reply to Benoit)
       Post #: 55

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 10/2/2006 6:43:06 PM   
Dean Pappas


 

Posts: 163
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: South Plainfield, NJ, USA
Status: offline
Hi Jim and All,
I had not thought that commutation time was that much of an issue, but this jives with what Dave L. and I have been observing: the geared Neu 1515 starts to really shine when you crank the current up, as compared to any of the 4 outrunners we have run. At just under 85 amps, the performance with the Neu is marvelous. Now to deaden the sound of those gears!

Okay, so we have several losses in the power system:
1)The no-load current (which is "wasted" changing the direction of the magnetic fields) does not contribute to making torque,
2) The current times R-winding voltage loss. Inrunners win here by as much as a 2:1 or 4:1 ratio. Almost 10% of our battery voltage disappears here, It's the biggie. Add to this the resistance of the ESC and wiring and it gets slightly worse.
3) Gear losses to partially counterract #2,
4) The armature reaction which reduces torque for a given current (think of it as raising Kv under load!)
5) The commutation-current rise time, which as Bob Boucher reminded you "wastes" time every time you change from one winding to the next,

Both #4 and #5 raise the peak current that is necessary to achieve an given average current. That's bad all around.
Now I have to go put an o'scope and current probe on a motor at high current to see what happens.
later,
Dean

(in reply to OhD)
       Post #: 56

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 10/2/2006 7:43:55 PM   
Adamg-RCU



Posts: 722
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Saskatoon, SK, CANADA
Status: offline
Dean, can the rest of us view actual wattmeter and tachometer tests on the Neu? I don't remember seeing them anywhere.

(in reply to Dean Pappas)
       Post #: 57

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 10/2/2006 8:50:35 PM   
Dean Pappas


 

Posts: 163
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: South Plainfield, NJ, USA
Status: offline
Hi Adam,
I'll go dig up the Excel file with test data at home.
The interesting thing is that the Neu performs better in the air than a straight "on the ground" comparison would indicate.
I'll try to get Dave L to talk about the comparison of 2 Prestiges: one with Hacker A60 the other with the Neu.
Dean

(in reply to Adamg-RCU)
       Post #: 58

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 10/3/2006 12:19:20 AM   
OhD


 

Posts: 397
Joined: 10/23/2002
From: west hills, CA, USA
Status: online
I had hoped to get some data on my Hacker A60 last week but ended up flying my test stand across the garage. Be careful with this stuff.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Dean Pappas)
       Post #: 59

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 2/21/2008 10:34:42 AM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 4088
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
Hi all

I have just got hold of a Pletenberg Evo 30-10 and am thinking of the Shulze 32.80 to control it, my question is what sort of side thrust are you running? as the front former is not installed yet I am free to put on what I need, I will be running a 22x10 RASA's prop, with the motor inside the spinner, not that it will make a difference except for the weight distribution, this is all going into a Compostie ARF 2.1M Extra. I have thought of just putting a mix on the rudder to throttle and keeping the spinner nice and straight what do you think?

Mike

_____________________________

No matter what anyone says 100% is the maximum you can get.

(in reply to OhD)
       Post #: 60

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 2/29/2008 2:48:43 PM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 4088
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
Anyone?

Mike

_____________________________

No matter what anyone says 100% is the maximum you can get.

(in reply to BaldEagel)
       Post #: 61

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 3/14/2008 6:41:43 PM   
BaldEagel



Posts: 4088
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Wychling, Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
Silence was the stern reply.

12S LiPo

Mike

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

No matter what anyone says 100% is the maximum you can get.

(in reply to BaldEagel)
       Post #: 62

RE: Schulze Future 32.80KA F3A - 4/17/2008 7:53:12 PM   
crazyf3a



Posts: 46
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: Klagenfurt, AUSTRIA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: can773

Sprink

Here is my exact setup in a 9Z WC2.

ATV - 120% Rate A, 110-120% Rate B (120 is full throttle I have found).

Throttle Trim setting (TRM menu) - 50% below mid point, reads +50 on my Tx.

Make sure you activate your throttle curve, the point values are as follows.

1 - 0
2 - 38
3 - 50
4 - 55
5 - 59
6 - 64
7 - 69
8 - 73
9 - 78
10 - 82
11 - 88
12 - 93
13 - 100

D button sets the Low which is set to 80%, the dial is set to a value of +75% (that is the value in the brackets)....corresponds to about 1.5 to the right side of zero on the dial. The dial is how I affect the brake strength. Activate a dial by going to VOL, then H for left dial. Set the dial value to negative. That will give less brake when turning clockwise and vice versa.

The brake strength can be affected by either throttle trim level or the dial, so play with them until you have a point on the dial at which you have a decent range of adjustment for your flying style.

If you want to get creative you could use the sub trim to offset the neutral point, that would flatten out the throttle curve a bit and give you some more resolution for the low end. I dont feel its needed though.

Let me know how it goes.



Hi to all
Can anyone tell me the programming on the T14. Only the part with the dial for brake. On my 9Z there is no Problem. I think the T14 does not have a value for one point.
SR andreas



_____________________________

The Ground is the Limit. Not the sky.
Andreas

(in reply to can773)