RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest!

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 1/9/2008 1:39 AM

jimbyjoe

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OK well i've installed XP on my Mac and am running it via Parallels. So i've installed FMS (the flight sim that comes with Esky stuff), but when i try to run it I get an error message and need to close it, with the option of sending it, which I didn't.
Am tempted to see if it will run on my work PC but I could probably get found out for putting non-work stuff on....working for the Government does have its downsides...
k

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 1/9/2008 4:15 AM

macuser

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From what I've read on other flight sim, gaming and RC sites, these simulators will only work on Macs with BootCamp, and not with VMWare or Parallels.
check www.rcgroups.com

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 1/9/2008 4:50 AM

macuser

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Check out a review for 5 flight simulators in winter 2008 edition of Radio Control Helicopter. The article is geared for heli fanatics, but'll give some insights to others. It includes: Aerofly Professional Deluxe, Hangar 9 FS One, Phoenix R/C Flight Simulator, Great Planes Realflight G3.5, and MRC's Reflex XTR. The authors give a one page layout for each game and rate Realflight's the best for beginners and XTR as more suitable for intermediate to experts. FS One is more catered towards fixed wing aircraft they say, and Phoenix's flight sim is the cheapest and most versatile. Aerofly P.D. has great graphics, excellent physics, and lots of heli models to choose from. Hope this is of some help to those thinking of buying a new flight sim game.

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 1/31/2008 1:29 AM

bigbird007

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First of all, put me down for a Mac RC flight sim!

Second, Boris, thanks for the link to the Mac software and keep up the good work!

I recently bought a Mac Pro quad core 3GHZ and a 20" cinema display. I've installed XP (and curse it every time it quits) and Realflight G3.5. I'm impressed, outside the klunky windows interface it works well. I've got everything maxed out and it's very smooth. This is my first RC sim for the simple reason that I wouldn't buy a windows machine. Works for me.

I believe I've read that there is software out there to port windows software to intel Macs without starting over, not so?

Bigbird

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 1/31/2008 2:01 AM

jimbyjoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbird007

I recently bought a Mac Pro quad core 3GHZ and a 20" cinema display. I've installed XP (and curse it every time it quits) and Realflight G3.5. I'm impressed, outside the klunky windows interface it works well. I've got everything maxed out and it's very smooth. This is my first RC sim for the simple reason that I wouldn't buy a windows machine. Works for me.

I believe I've read that there is software out there to port windows software to intel Macs without starting over, not so?
Bigbird

mate - are you runnign XP on boot camp or a virtual machine? I was running Parallels (VM) on Tiger until halfway through a firmware upgrade on my phone, it crashed, and turned my phone into a brick. So I went and bought Leopard, put XP on via Boot Camp (which means you can utilise the video card properly), and was flying pretty nicely. But FMS just didn't cut it, so I dowloaded Clearview, tried my controller with it, liked it, and bought a licence - not bad, only $40. It's not exactly Realflight but it's still fairly good and a lot more realistic than FMS.

Plus, my boss just gave me Lo-mac's Lock-On, which is a flight simulator/fighting game. Fully good eh. unfortuantely that means I'll be spending more time on the computer than I should

k

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 1/31/2008 3:15 AM

bigbird007

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jimbyjoe,

Bootcamp, although I don't like having to boot back and forth I wanted the full experience and not emulation. Not to mention the direct-x problems.

I would like to hear from someone who knows about the software for porting games to intel based Mac's though, I read somewhere that it was being worked on...

bigbird

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 1/31/2008 4:12 PM

da Rock

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You know, this thread is 1 year and 4 months old. Pretty amazing.

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 1/31/2008 4:25 PM

nelsonmay

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If you guys are really looking for something, like I am, try contacting a developer or gamer. There are a lot of kids out there that can write code or adapt code to the OS X platform. The Apple Market share is growing, but companies still don't want to take the leap in R&D on niche products until they know they can get a decent ROI. For the time being, we may not see a good FS for a MAC unless someone writes something that is compatible with the ESKY or any other controller, via USB. But be patient, it will come. BTW, older PC's in Goodwill stores are dirt cheap and an sure they have enough of horsepower to run a win program. My PC is 6 years old and runs the demo of Realflight. Even if you love macs like me, it still is better that pickup pieces on an airfield and coming home bummed out.

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/1/2008 2:55 PM

macuser

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I've just upgraded to 2GB of RAM and added Leopard so all I need to run G4 is a Microsoft OS (and G4). I haven't used Bootcamp yet because I don't have a PC OS so I'll have to wait a bit longer. I'm kinda waiting until I get a new iMac because my current one has an integrated Intel G950 graphics chip and it won't likely run G4 very well. I'm also hesitant to mess up my computer with viruses when I update the windows OS.

I have to say I was envious of a previous poster who just bought a Mac Pro. Those things have some real power and can run several high end graphics cards at the same time. If I was going to get crazy like that I'd buy a dedicated PC for gaming.

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/1/2008 3:05 PM

bigbird007

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The way I look at it, buy near the top of the line and it will be good for years to come. My last computer is over 5 now (pretty long in the tooth for a computer). I expect this one to last as long. Of course as soon as I bought it they updated it to 8 core as the standard config! It does run G3.5 pretty sweet.

Oh, for a Mac Version!

bigbird

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/1/2008 5:23 PM

bluesky123

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quote:

...thanks for the link to the Mac software and keep up the good work!

We've finished Mac port of our software:
http://www.milehighwings.com/
From now on, all future releases will be published simultaneously for Windows and MacOS.

Now, you can configure our USB interface or work with our new wattmeter/data logger completely on Mac, either PowerPC or Intel based. The only limitation is that MacOS should be version 10.4 or newer. We've considered making eFlightWorks compatible with 10.3, but Apple's USB communication code has too many bugs in this MacOS version, most of which was fixed in 10.4.

Boris
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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/1/2008 7:08 PM

bigbird007

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Thanks again for the effort Boris! Now if only the Sims were ported over

bigbird

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/6/2008 12:38 AM

GallopingGhost

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OOO my Fruity Friends.....
The truth is Macs are only about 5% of the market and perhaps less in the RC world. Do you expect them to spend the development costs to provide a sim to 28.5 people? Ok I guessed at the number there may be 29 or 30. If they did that it would cost more than a blinged out Giant Scale plane. Now don't think I am a Apple hater, I'm not (but I do prefer oranges) but you must come to grips with the economics of it all. When Steve ( God) Jobs created your world he made your world differently from ours. You are welcome to join our world with all it has to offer.

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/6/2008 2:07 AM

bigbird007

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quote:

You are welcome to join our world with all it has to offer.

And we are, my mac will run windows too. Of course I don't have to deal with all the virus'... I'll use your gaming operating system for games and RC sims and my mac OS for the rest. Thanks God (steve)

bigbird

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/7/2008 2:18 AM

The R/C Man

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Of course I didn't read the entire thread but this is what I am getting. If you purchase a new Mac Book Pro (which has Lepard pre-installed) you can add Windows and run a sim like AeroFly correct? I just want to be sure. My Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop is 4 years old now and I would really like to switch to a Mac. So this set up should run it fine right? Thanks!

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/7/2008 2:54 AM

Aussie_Knife_Edge

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Yes it will work fine. I use Phoenix on my iMac.

Cheers
Jason.

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/7/2008 3:40 AM

lsnover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The R/C Man

Of course I didn't read the entire thread but this is what I am getting. If you purchase a new Mac Book Pro (which has Lepard pre-installed) you can add Windows and run a sim like AeroFly correct? I just want to be sure. My Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop is 4 years old now and I would really like to switch to a Mac. So this set up should run it fine right? Thanks!

Just be careful which Mac you purchase. If you get the "Pro" you will be in good shape. Some of the lower end machines have on-board "shared memory" video cards that do not perform well for 3D video games. Macbook Pros, mid level iMacs and the Intel Mac Pros are all fine. The basic Macbook (non pro) and low end iMacs should be avoided if you want a good gaming experience.

You also will need to run Apples BOOTCAMP to get good 3D performance (ie. you boot the Mac AS as a PC). The emulators (Parallels and VMWARE Fusion) are great for running both OSes at the same time and for general productivity apps., but the 3D performance is well below par. As a note, you can setup a partition on your hard drive for Windows/Bootcamp, that can be used when you are running your Mac OS with Parallels or VMWARE (i.e. you can use the same Windows installation in both "modes").

Boris, what exactly does your software do? What software can you use it with?

Cheers!
Lee
(Mac user since 1984 by choice, Windoze user by force since Windoze 386)

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/7/2008 3:44 AM

lsnover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GallopingGhost

OOO my Fruity Friends.....
The truth is Macs are only about 5% of the market and perhaps less in the RC world. Do you expect them to spend the development costs to provide a sim to 28.5 people? Ok I guessed at the number there may be 29 or 30. If they did that it would cost more than a blinged out Giant Scale plane. Now don't think I am a Apple hater, I'm not (but I do prefer oranges) but you must come to grips with the economics of it all. When Steve ( God) Jobs created your world he made your world differently from ours. You are welcome to join our world with all it has to offer.

A million flies love to eat you know what. But that doesn't mean I want to join them for dinner. There are times where you have to eat what's in front of you. LOL. That said, dog food is fine in a pinch, but I'll take the T-Bone when I have a choice. ;-) I would buy a good Flight sim for my Mac in a heartbeat if there was a choice.

< Message edited by lsnover -- 2/7/2008 3:46 AM >

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/7/2008 9:16 PM

bluesky123

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quote:

Boris, what exactly does your software do? What software can you use it with?

This software works with all our USB devices, which are currently: bidirectional Transmitter-Computer USB interface and a wattmeter/data logger, with more devices in the development.

For the USB interface, our software does the following:
1) Configures it for simulator use, which includes:
- measuring the travel range of each channel to cover it with full 10-bit resolution = 1024 levels (unlike "dumb" interfaces, which reserve their 8 bits to the maximum possible channel travel, which limits the real resolution to roughly 7 bits or about 100 levels)
- sets buttons and channel mapping to match simulator requirements or simplify simulator setup
2) Controls an aircraft from your transmitter in "Output PPM" mode
3) Programs an ESC or plays a throttle sequence to the ESC
Here's the manual:
http://milehighwings.com/manual_usb_v4.htm

For eFlightWatt wattmeter/data logger, the software does all configuration and data exchange as well as programs/controls an ESC.
Here's the manual:
http://milehighwings.com/manual_wattmeter.htm

My 2 cent contribution to the off-topic discussion about Mac vs. PC:

Since Apple switched to regular PC hardware, Macs became very well engineered PCs. When a friend of mine, who is a VP of Development of a big CAD company, decided to get himself the best Windows laptop money can buy, he bough Mac. Nobody would argue that Apple hardware is well made and, lately, reasonably priced, comparing to similar quality PC hardware (there are tons of cheap PCs, but they are way inferior to Apple hardware).

Apple software is another story. I won't discuss end user applications, which are probably ok and certainly ready to use out of the box (unlike a typical PC, Apple buyer don't have to re-format the hard drive and re-install the system just to get rid of tons of trialware and other crap that PC makers have pre-installed). Much touted "ease of use" is mostly BS from Apple marketing department--if you are used to ways MacOS works, you find it more convenient than Windows, and vice versa. After owning dozens of PCs (I'm constantly upgrading them and selling the old ones) and getting a Mac, I got used to it and found Windows and MacOS equally [un]convenient.

My biggest complaint about Apple software is their development tools and development documentation. Yes, Xcode is free, but you are getting exactly what you've paid for--an inconvenient, limited, and sometimes buggy (though, no more so than MS VisualStudio) development environment, which is plainly a pain. Apple documentation is a joke. Apple libraries suck. Apple practice to change APIs with every release of MacOS is sick (in the bad sense of the word) and their inability to fix known bugs (google "HID Manager" and you'll see what I'm talking about) is pathetic. That's why Mac development requires more efforts and costs more.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, at least, this wasn't my intention.

Boris
MileHighWings R&D

< Message edited by bluesky123 -- 2/8/2008 12:28 AM >

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/8/2008 1:00 AM

lsnover

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Boris:

Thanks for the info.

I use both system extensively and do software development myself, so I know what you mean. Apple's QC can be a bit spotty. I have some friends who work there. They concentrate too much on the "consumer" oriented items and tend to let the business oriented features take a back seat. Many of the APIs have changed from release to release, which can be a challenge. But they generally get better, and there's quite a bit to work with. I mostly work in the database end of things, and Oracle is my favorite. Apple and Oracle's support has been pathetically inconsistent. This is a real shame, because we have many loyal Mac customers. This inconsistency is what forced me into the Windows world where there IS more support for the business oriented user. That said, there's lots of things about Windoze that blows chunks. Dealing with security and viruses and updates is a constant nightmare.

Performance USE TO to be better on the PC for much of what I did, now with the Intel macs and optimized programs, I'm seeing the Mac outperform Windoze by a good margin with some of my apps. And VMWARE Fusion actually runs windows very well. My VMWARE Server 2003 intallation on my 24" iMac Dual Core actually runs Oracle 11 faster then a 1 year old purpose build Dell Server with Quad XEONS. Hard to believe. The emulators just haven't caught up on the Video hardware end of things yet, but I think they will get there. Best thing about VMWARE is I build a Virtual PC with all my bits and pieces, back up the file. If my Virtual Machine gets flaky, get's a virus or get's hacked, I just dump the file and restore from my zipped pristine copy. And moving to another Mac is as simple as a copy to a Firewire hard drive. Plus I can run whatever flavors of Windows I want even at the same time. Of course you can do this with VMWARE for Windows too, but if your "base" machine goes haywire, your toast. The Mac is a better choice, IMHO.

BMW has a small percentage of the market, as does Apple. But that's not to say you can't make money making good Mac software. There's less competition, and Mac users will spend more. That said, it's a premium machine, and the users expect premium software. Second rate stuff usually doesn't fly. Same with half hearted ports. Microsoft is about to find that out with Office 2008 for Mac.

I don't mean to offend either, I just don't buy the argument that it's bad business to go after a smaller market niche. I've pretty much made a career doing that. ;-)

Cheers!
Lee

< Message edited by lsnover -- 2/8/2008 1:01 AM >

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/10/2008 9:12 AM

macuser

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I just ordered a Mac Pro (single 2.8 GHz quad) with a Nvidia 8800 GT graphics card. This thing should run these flight simulators no prob. No I just have to wait. After spending so much money I'll be hard pressed to scrape up the $ for a windows OS and the $200 for the flight sim

Excited about being able to use this simulator soon!

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/10/2008 8:20 PM

The R/C Man

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Yeah they are pricey. I am still debating weather or not I should buy a "gaming" laptop PC or the Mac Book Pro. I am just impressed with the Macs. I am up in the air about the bang for the buck factor though. For the price of the Mac I can get a 512mb video card 4meg of ram and a larger hard drive ect for the same price of the Mac. Either way I am still wondering which sim to buy.

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/10/2008 9:29 PM

macuser

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The Mac Book Pro currently has a better video card than the highest end iMac so it's a good choice for gaming. Mac laptops are competitive with PC's while the iMacs are a bit less so. The value in getting a Mac is that they include a lot of useful applications that are very powerful and easy to use. Leopard has a great backup feature, cover flow and quick look are awesome, and the list goes on. When you buy a PC you have to then get third party applications if you want to do stuff. In my opinion the security of Macs are far superior to PC's. Case in point - I was on the phone speaking to an online banking representative with CIBC and I was asking him questions about security. When I told him I had a Mac he said I was much more secure than with a PC. For me this peace of mind further sold me on the Mac. So far there are zero viruses for Macs, just keep in mind when you boot up into windows on your Mac, that side of your drive is open to the same viruses, etc as a PC. Macs also have excellent resale values, which when considered into the lifelong purchase of your computer, makes Macs cheaper than PC's. Just check out ebay for prices on used Macs and you'll see what I mean.

I'm going to get Great Planes Realflight G4. I'm interested in the helicopter sims and from what I've read and heard it's the best sim. Winter 2008 edition of Radio Control Helicopter has a good article on the various available flight sims.

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/22/2008 8:30 PM

F4DevilDog

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Put me down for the first good sim for Mac. No reason, with the growth of macs, that someone hasn't picked up and run with it. When they do, I'll be first in line with my credit card.

; )

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RE: The "Flight Sim for Mac" Protest! - 2/22/2008 9:10 PM

nelsonmay

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I am in agreement on all the above issues. It would be nice to have a sim for MAC OS. I am using a ESKY with FMS on a PC, and I guess the only hassle is having to move across the room, start up another machine and practice. That is my inconvenience! It would be nice to stop what you are working on, open an application take a few flights and go back to work (all on your MAC). That said, if someone wrote a pretty good sim for MAC, (us MAC users) would pay a bit more for it, just to have the convenience.

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