YS FZ63 trouble (Full Version)

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smokinT -> YS FZ63 trouble (9/24/2006 8:59:02 AM)

Hello:
I'm having a puzzling time with a new .63FZ. Broke it in on test stand with YS 20/20, APC 13 x 6, OS F plug per instructions (about 2-2 1/2 turns out). Started right up, ran fine but blubbering rich. Next mounted it on a GP Cap 580 w/cowl. Started fine, out about 1 3/4 - 2 turns. Taxi great, instant throttle response. As soon as wheels break ground the engine instantly loses power. Lots of smoke and crawled up to altitude. Flew around a bit and then suddenly had no throttle control; it was as if it was stuck at full throttle. Thought I shook something loose and resigned myself to flying around until out of gas. After about 5 more minutes the throttle control came back. Brought it in for an uneventful landing and everything looked OK. Noted quite a bit of fuel coming out of carb while engine off but tank still pressurized. Flew again a little later and leaned it up to about 1 1/4 turns out. Not as much smoke trail but no instant loss of power on takeoff. Seemed weak, though. Worried I was too lean so landed at which she quit on me at high idle on final.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Todd



Steve S. Helland -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (9/24/2006 9:06:43 AM)

Richen your idle mixture



Dave Shadel -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (9/24/2006 8:14:44 PM)

Sounds like both idle and reg are in need of adjustment. Try richer idle first.



smokinT -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (9/25/2006 5:24:52 AM)

OK, I'll give that a shot. I took it back off the plane and ran 2 16 oz tanks thru it at the 2 1/2 turn out setting that the instructions give. I figured maybe it just wasn't broke in enough. This was at WOT only. I'm going to put it back on the plane and play with the idle and fly it with the cowl off. I'll let you know, thanks for your prompt response.

Todd



smokinT -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (9/27/2006 7:18:19 AM)

Update...

Took it to the field today. Read the instructions (again) and found out that from the factory the idle screw was out 2 turns, not the 1 turn per instructions. Put it at 1 turn out and fired it up. At 2 1/2 turns out with heat on APC 13 x 6 ~ 7,500 rpm. 2 turns out ~ 8,000, 1 1/2 turns ~ 9,000, 1 1/4 turn ~ 10,000. Any further and no rpm gain. OK transition, improved after went in another 1/8 turn on the low speed needle. Flew twice with cowl off. Visible smoke trail and decent throttle response but not unlimited vertical. Will pull this 6.5# Cap about 200 feet up and then poops out. Going to fly this setting for a while then maybe lean it out some more.



Dave Shadel -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (9/27/2006 5:07:24 PM)

Try some CP 30% heli when you get a chance.

Keep me posted.



smokinT -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (10/1/2006 5:14:23 AM)

OK, tried it with the cowl on. Same settings as before (out 7/8 on low end, 1 1/4 high end). First flight ran rough and just didn't seem to make much power. Landed early and played with it on the ground. ~ 10,000 rpm on APC 13 x 6, YS 20/20. Leaned the high end 3 clicks and this flight was really bad; ran rough without any smoke trail and just didn't seem right at all. Worried I was too lean so landed. Played with it some more on the ground. Hard to start but got it going. Tried richening high end to about 1 3/4 turn out and went in on the low about another 1/8. Just not running good: Fast then slow, poor transition, fast idle cutting to slow spontaneously.

It ran OK with the cowl off the other day but rich. I ended up going back to those settings but it wouldn't run consistently. I don't have access to 30% fuel and I'm really frustrated. It now has about 1 1/4 gallons and I think it would be more consistent. I'm using a YS plug now but no difference. I'm going back on the test stand tomorrow to see if that fuel tank/line combination makes any difference.



Dave Shadel -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (10/1/2006 3:31:08 PM)

Something in the engine is leaking. Box it up and send it in to service.

YS Service
1295 Industrial Court
Gardnerville, NV 89410

Phone 775-782-4562



smokinT -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (10/24/2006 1:43:58 AM)

OK, I just got it back from the service center. They did two things:

1. Replaced the plunger

2. "Updated" the piston (I believe by drilling 4 small holes in it? That's the way it was described to me...For a better seal?)

Anyway, they were nice to deal with and didn't charge me one penny!

I'll put it back on the plane this weekend and give you a report.

Thanks again.




Dave Shadel -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (10/24/2006 2:29:09 AM)

They gas ported the piston. YS went to this in all their production about 4 years ago, so possibly this one was missed. In any case, the gas porting helps force the ring into the cylinder wall on the upstroke of the piston. This keeps the regulator from getting a pressure pulse at the wrong time.

Let us know how it goes after the mods.



bbagle1 -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (1/27/2007 6:59:33 PM)

I have a problem i can't figure out. after mounting my fz 63 and hooking up the throttle servo I noticed that when the throttle arm was moving the butterfly wasn't opening. After I took the engine off the plane the throttle arm has a gap in it between the carb and is just spinning freely not attached to anything. Has anyone seen this happen before? If so what is the problem and how do I fix it? Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Dave Shadel -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (1/27/2007 7:05:04 PM)

Tighten the throttle arm screw.



normandouellette -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (7/8/2008 8:09:03 AM)

I have mounted a pair of YS 63"s on a A-26 and flew it about 10 times so far. It has been a fight with one engine since the begining. here is what I did since the begining.

Had both engine on a test stand for break in and ran approximately 1/2 gallon each at a rich setting and not exceeding 4500 rpm. This was a flawless operation and both engines spining a MAS 3 blade 11 x 8 @ 11500rpm and idle at 2500.

both engines instaled on the plane and a perfect tank set-up keeps the pressure and using 2 12 oz dubro tank. one engine always quit when landing at idle and after the flight????

1- I checked the mechanical throttle position which seemed to me to be the problem.
2- the problem engine does not pick up from idle to full throttle and is slow to reach full rpm 5-6 seconds
3- the problem engine is impossible to set at idle.

I tried different set-up rich or lean the regulator, lean or rich low setting.

this is my procedure: 1 set the regulator screw even, 2 set high speed needle max rpm - 300 rich. 3 set low end at 2500 when rich engine rpm go higher to 3500 and then chokes or rich low end but rpm descend from 2500 to 2000 until quit and cannot find the "middle" or ideal setting position @ 1/8 turn at a time.

I do not know if i should increase the idle position of the butterfly carb when rich at low end to add to the confusion but the engine is so inconsistant that I give up.

Why is it that this engine is so hard to tune. I own 42 engines mainly saitos and never encountered an engine so hard to set up. I always buy new engines for the simple reason that I know the history of my engines. The instructions are limited for set-up info and followed instructions from ys service.

Normand




mjfrederick -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (7/8/2008 4:41:05 PM)

From what I understand of these engines, I think you need to start from the top down. Re-set all needles to factory setting. Then run the engine and set the high-end needle first. Next set the mid-range (4000 rpm) using the regulator (should hold 4000 RPM steady, no surge/sag), then set the idle air bleed for a good idle (2000-2200 rpm). Keep in mind the air bleed works the opposite of a needle valve as your are controlling air flow, not fuel flow. So CCW is lean and CW is rich. Also... have you tried replacing the glow plug? New engines can foul a glow plug very quickly if a small piece of metal works its way up into it.



normandouellette -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (7/8/2008 5:32:34 PM)

I have verified the glow plug but will replace it since it may be a cause because it is hard to start at any settings since the few first run. At this point every suggestions even superstitious is welcome.

Thank you mjfrederic

Normand



petec -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (7/8/2008 7:43:19 PM)

A few questions:

Is this an FZ or an FZ-S? If it is an FZ then pulling the regulator apart to check for debris would be an easy check and one I would suggest if it is taking that long to increase RPM as the throttle is advanced.

Change the plug just to be sure and if there is no change then i'd ask if it acts like this if you leave the glow driver attached and heating the plug?

Is the tank holding pressure?



normandouellette -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (7/8/2008 8:27:58 PM)

Hello pete,

It is the YS FZ63S, the recent release of this engine. When I leave the glow igniter on or off it is the same. I haven't tried changing the glow plug yet but this makes sense since the engine is always hard to start and "puff" a few times before starting. It may be that only part of the element is "glowing".

What you refer to for the regulator and pulling it apart do you mean to disassemble the reg?. The fuel feed from the tank is protected by a filter and the whole fuel system is pressure tight, in fact it holds pressure overnight. This interesting, the regulator may have been contaminated from the test stand to the plane... fiberglass dust in the tube between the filter and the reg.

Thank you,

Normand



petec -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (7/8/2008 9:12:44 PM)

By all means try the plug first. It is always best to start with the easy things and not over think the issue until you have to. The fact that it is exhibiting the same behavior even with the glow ignitor still attached could certainly be a plug that is not up to par. It could also be a lot of excess fuel too but the plug is way easier to swap out.

The YS regulator absolutely hates foreign objects. If you get something in there it will cause the regulator not to close completely causing an overly rich condition that cannot be adjusted out. I am not sure how to open the regulator on the S version as I do not own one.



normandouellette -> RE: YS FZ63 trouble (7/8/2008 9:17:47 PM)

Thanx pete will try the plug tonight.

Normand



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