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Carden 35% Extra 260 - RTF
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> ARF or RTF >> zdz 80 vibration
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zdz 80 vibration - 1/19/2003 9:32:14 PM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10074
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Oh - the 80?
Yep - they run smooth-
I have flown one in a 17 lb model - built originally for a 2.4 ci engine - very light construction- and --vibration is not a issue.
But then - the current purpose built engines - not converted chainsaws - all run pretty darn smoothly.
All of my new designs are much more lightly built than I originally thought necessary - simply because the engines don't try to tear em up.
The 80 single should work well on a airframe ready to fly including engine as light as 16 lbs -
Most of the damage I get -is from the f---in door jambs in my house.

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 26

zdz 80 vibration - 1/19/2003 10:13:57 PM   
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Posts: 880
Joined: 1/5/2002
From: ., NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Dick, you had a post in the 3-D section on a very light airframe you were building a while back with an ultra low wing loading, how did it work out, and did you get to play with balast to see how much difference it made.

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 27

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 2:01:16 AM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10074
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		I am flying it each weekend since Oct - we flog it dog it and try all kinds of stuff with it - it is 19 oz ft loading and I can say with no reservations - that this is the way to go -
almost all ARFS for th 40 cc engines -on up -are close to 30 ox ft - we have flown plenty of that stuff- The difference from 19-29 oz ft -same power aprox same area --is extremely noticable

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 28

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 2:05:55 AM   
CHM



Posts: 599
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: Alexandria, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Tell us more, Dick!

_____________________________

"I'd like one large Yak to go. Could you supersize that for me please?"

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 29

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 2:29:56 AM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10074
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Not much to tell - weigh everything - look at rubber band model construction -don't worry about adding carbon fibre parts or drilling holes in engines - this stuff is all fine -but excellent results can be had using spruce and balsa - thats it.
Look at the current crop of good electric powered stuff- -weight counts !
My next big gasser will be the 20-300 Ultimutt-- at 2000 squares - and should be under 20 lbs - all up - no fancy stuff required .
foam flight panels with lite balsa skins - and an all balsa fuselage with some spruce stringers -and wire for gear and struts - - sounds awfully old fashioned -I know -but so far I have seen nothing which beats these materials in a usable weight to strength comparison

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 30

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 3:12:42 AM   
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Posts: 880
Joined: 1/5/2002
From: ., NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Very cool, congradulations on your efforts! Keep us posted on the 20-300 it sounds like a winner. Do you by any chance have plans for the one your flying?

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 31

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 4:04:47 AM   
Diablo-RCU


 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: Hammond, IN, USA
Status: offline 		On the other side of the wing loading equation, I weighed two different Carden 33% Caps. Both with a DA-100. The light one weighed 30.5 lbs and the heavy one weighed 34 lbs (needed to carry 3.5 lbs of nose weight).

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 32

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 4:05:11 AM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10074
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		No working plans - They are a real time killer for me -
I do an awful lot of sketching and usually redesign the whole thing a dozen times but working drawings have to be left for a completed model which will be sold to others.

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 33

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 5:58:19 AM   
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Posts: 880
Joined: 1/5/2002
From: ., NJ, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diablo
On the other side of the wing loading equation, I weighed two different Carden 33% Caps. Both with a DA-100. The light one weighed 30.5 lbs and the heavy one weighed 34 lbs . [/QUOTE]

Diablo, are you sure it was a Carden 33% Cap? to the best of my knowledge they make three sizes, a 80" span 30% that usually weighs around 19-20 pounds, a 35% with a 102" span that usually weighs around 25-26 pounds and a 40% 116" span that usually weighs around 36-38 pounds. I've never heard of a 33% carden, is it new?

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 34

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 7:12:33 AM   
Diablo-RCU


 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: Hammond, IN, USA
Status: offline 		You are correct. It must have been a 35% Carden Cap - a little over 100" span. I get mighty confused about all these %s. Too much to keep straight. The heavy one was an older model with recessed wings - it had double wall construction for a lot of the fuselage. Looked like it was built to withstand an atomic bomb.

The point was the Carden Caps can be heavy when built stock - same with the Aeroworks 33% Edge 540-T. The AW Edge-29 lbs with either a 3W-100 or DA100 or 3W-80.

The lightest plane I've seen with a 100+ inch span is Dave Genovese's DR-109, just under 23 lbs with a BME 102 - no pilot, no frills.

The H9 33% Cap comes out just under 24 lbs with a ZDZ-80 - this gives it a lighter wing loading than the typical Carden Cap or AW Edge.

< Message edited by Diablo-RCU -- Jan 20 2003 2:24AM >

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 35

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 8:07:25 AM   
wgeffon



Posts: 6376
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Bloomington, IL, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diablo

The H9 33% Cap comes out just under 24 lbs with a ZDZ-80 - this gives it a lighter wing loading than the typical Carden Cap or AW Edge. [/QUOTE]

Yup. Mine is 23.5 with the ZDZ 80.


_____________________________

Wayne

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 36

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 5:16:55 PM   
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Posts: 880
Joined: 1/5/2002
From: ., NJ, USA
Status: offline 		A 35% Carden Cap at 30 pounds? Tell the owner next time have someone else build the plane, obviously he hasn't a clue!

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 37

horizon - 1/20/2003 5:55:59 PM   
J roc



Posts: 228
Joined: 4/23/2002
From: Thunder Bay, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Reason why I ask is that on horizons website, in the sukhoi info, they say that this engine is a "shaker" and nuts and screws need to be periodically checked and tightened.

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 38

zdz 80 vibration - 1/20/2003 7:27:57 PM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10074
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		I read that post - and was really surprised -
having done a number of H9's for me and friends - we found this to be NOT the case -
Guys flying twins here, have as much problem with this as anyone -
Here is the "but"
we all use a 4/40 bolt - with a washer and a tiny piece of neoprene fuel tubing as an extra washer -- this rubbber washer squeezes down and stops loosening. and the cowls are the worst offenders as this is a pretty cantilevered load
The shaking we have seen on these engines is from the idle adjustment on the carb- If rich - too rich - the engine hammers - this is NOT engine vibration from being an unbalanced single - it is simply a harsh power stroke.
A twin setup incorrectly will do the same thing.
Horizon's ZDZ 80 engine has the earlier Bing carb - which is typically not as easy to get smooth at idle --as the Walbro- But again - this is a case by case affair.
You will never eliminate power pulses in a single pulse per rev engine design - single or twin- makes NO fu--- difference.
Run a few of em if possible and you will see what I am driving at.

(in reply to J roc)
       Post #: 39