Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST

Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST
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Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 9/27/2006 3:26:03 PM

br052602

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From: Sioux Falls, SD, USA
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New product from futaba.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLZP3&P=7

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLZP0&P=7

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLZP1&P=7

Post #: 1

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 9/27/2006 4:11:01 PM

Nomadio_Sales

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Great and Nomadio hopes they sell like Hot Cakes FHDSS 100mW and 100 FPS just like us gee I wonder why? LOL

< Message edited by Nomadio_Sales -- 9/27/2006 4:47:31 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 9/27/2006 11:31:50 PM

Doahh

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Wow that's a big number o.o

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Post #: 3

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 9/28/2006 12:00:43 AM

Nomadio_Sales

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They are very proud of that puppy. But considering on HRS it is 100 FPS not 75 FPS input and 50FPS output is well its woth $80.00 more.

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Post #: 4

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 10/1/2006 4:24:14 AM

SAVAGEJIM

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DSS for 3PK!!! This is what I've been waiting for!

Darn, looks like I'll have to put my engine rebuilding budget on hold and order for myself one of these sets instead.

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Post #: 5

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 10/1/2006 4:27:30 AM

Nomadio_Sales

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IT IS NOT DSS!!! DSS is a trademarked made up term Horizon(tm) / Spektrum(tm) have for their DSSS 2.4GHz system!

Futaba system is FHDSS 100mW and 100Hz
Nomadio system is FHDSS 100mW and 100Hz

The Futaba is MUCH better then the graft on 2.4GHz RF decks being sold now.

Spek is 50Hz / 10mW

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Post #: 6

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 10/1/2006 7:26:50 PM

Doahh

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Now if only futaba would be nice enought to make one for the M11...

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Post #: 7

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 10/1/2006 8:25:26 PM

SAVAGEJIM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomadio_Sales

IT IS NOT DSS!!! DSS is a trademarked made up term Horizon(tm) / Spektrum(tm) have for their DSSS 2.4GHz system!

So what exactly is the difference with DSS and FHDSS other than the name and the following?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomadio_Sales

Futaba...& Nomadio system is FHDSS 100mW and 100Hz

Spek(rum) is 50Hz / 10mW

I pourd through hundreds of posts by Nomandio and Nomandio_Dave and the only thing I could find that hinted at FHDSS is what Nomandio_Dave call FHSS in one of his posts. Nomandio in his posts calls the 2.4Ghz used by Sensor "DSS" in many of his posts also. Granted, most of the posts are 1 and 2 years old and this may have changed (primarily, like you said, because of trademark purposes).

I didn't have near enough time to read the 850+posts in depth so I could have missed alot. Doesn' the Sektrum also use quite the same thing as FHSS? How did they trademark something that everyone in the industry uses as an industrial term? This brings back memeoris of AMD and Cyrix suing Intel for the name "486" as an excuse for Intel to try to keep competitors from using the same architectural technologies; many of which were industry standard already.

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Post #: 8

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 10/1/2006 9:33:31 PM

Nomadio_Sales

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This information is all over the web but here is a breif overview, DSM(tm) = a made up term Horizon(tm) / Spektrum(tm) use it is not an industry term nor a real FCC term.

DSSS = Direct Sequencing Spread Spectrum = 10mW output = Stays on one channel like say ch #61 (example) like any crystal based radio. DSSS is on a spread spektrum ISM band but the signal is not spread over all the channels it is locked on to one channel as it were. Your channel can be glitched like any other parked system if someone broadcasts on your channel. This is one reason why Futaba dropped their DSSS system in favor of FHDSS because they had a pot where you could dial a channel on 2.4 GHz allowing you to shoot down DSSS radios at will, also being able to dial a fixed channel on ISM is illegal all over the world. With DSSS your receiver can be taken over just as Nomadio has Da Slow Mode we drop our power output to 10mW and slow to 50Hz frame rate and we can take over the bind on non FHDSS receivers.

FHDSS = Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum = 100mW to 125mW output = hops from channel to channel in no order in just milliseconds from one channel to another giving less time for the signal to be glitched if a hop is corrupted because it landed on an occupied channel it rejects that set of packets of data and moves on you never knew there was a problem on that channel because it is hopping so fast. Almost impossible to hijack the signal this is why FHDSS is used in bomb bots and places where you can’t take the risk of a glitch.

< Message edited by Nomadio_Sales -- 10/1/2006 9:35:22 PM >

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RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 10/2/2006 6:51:39 AM

mav67

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I wish Futaba could come out with some sensors for the 3PK.

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Post #: 10

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 10/2/2006 10:25:17 AM

Nomadio_Sales

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Because the 3PK is analog based the radio would have to be 10% re-done to do that so sorry.

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Post #: 11

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 10/5/2006 1:57:24 PM

spawn

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Hi Nomadio,

I did a search on the net on the difference between DSSS and FHSS. I found this good explanation. I believe that what was written is credible as it is written by engineers for engineers. http://www.commsdesign.com/design_corner/OEG20030506S0029

You seem to imply that 100mw FHSS is superior to 10mw DHSS, any proof on this? Based on the article, the reason why DSSS is only 10mw is because FHSS needs to put out more power in order to have the same Signal-to-noise ratio as a direct-sequence radio i.e. DSSS uses less power to achieve the same results of FHSS.

Also the article stated that:
1)"The frequency hopper also needs more time to search the signal and lock to it. As a result, the latency time is usually longer. While a direct-sequence radio can lock in the chip sequence in just a few bits. " I am not sure what is the latency comparison of both nomadio and spektrum but based on the article it looks like DSSS is faster than FHSS. A forumer has done a comparison but was told to compare the throttle and steering http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4803333/tm.htm Do you have any comparison for a 3pk with spektrum vs sensor to proof that sensor is faster? So that we racers are convinced that its really true that sensor is faster. Also do you think a normal human can tell the difference if you have a servo turning slower by 10-15ms?

2)How did you know that futaba dropped the DSSS for FHSS and have a pot to dial a 2.4ghz channel since its illegal, any documented proof?

3)How easy is it to hijack a 2.4ghz channel for a product running a DSSS? I am not an engineer so can you explain this paragraph
"If there is an interference jammer in the same band, it will be spread out during the de-spreading. As a result, the jammer's impact is greatly reduced. This is the way that the direct-sequence spread-spectrum (DSSS) radio fights the interference. It spreads out the offending jammer by the spreading factor (Figure 4). Since the spreading factor is at least a factor of 10, the offending jammer's amplitude is greatly reduced by at least 90%"

I think the article is very good for layman like me as I was initially also confused about FHSS and DSSS (not that I fully understand how it works behind the scene). However I think Nomadio may have overstated the ability of its radio. Dont get me wrong I dont work for spektrum nor paid by them. I was doing a search on the differences, pros and cons about spektrum and nomadio. IMHO I find that nomadio bashes spektrum products in this forum and I not sure if this is because of ill-will or resentment. I would say that the misinformation may work some time but not all the time. I think its time that you stop bashing spektrum until you have some solid proof about the greatness of your product with proof otherwise you will only create a bad name for yourself. I certainly like your products but not the way you bash other products.

Cheers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomadio_Sales

This information is all over the web but here is a breif overview, DSM(tm) = a made up term Horizon(tm) / Spektrum(tm) use it is not an industry term nor a real FCC term.

DSSS = Direct Sequencing Spread Spectrum = 10mW output = Stays on one channel like say ch #61 (example) like any crystal based radio. DSSS is on a spread spektrum ISM band but the signal is not spread over all the channels it is locked on to one channel as it were. Your channel can be glitched like any other parked system if someone broadcasts on your channel. This is one reason why Futaba dropped their DSSS system in favor of FHDSS because they had a pot where you could dial a channel on 2.4 GHz allowing you to shoot down DSSS radios at will, also being able to dial a fixed channel on ISM is illegal all over the world. With DSSS your receiver can be taken over just as Nomadio has Da Slow Mode we drop our power output to 10mW and slow to 50Hz frame rate and we can take over the bind on non FHDSS receivers.

FHDSS = Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum = 100mW to 125mW output = hops from channel to channel in no order in just milliseconds from one channel to another giving less time for the signal to be glitched if a hop is corrupted because it landed on an occupied channel it rejects that set of packets of data and moves on you never knew there was a problem on that channel because it is hopping so fast. Almost impossible to hijack the signal this is why FHDSS is used in bomb bots and places where you can’t take the risk of a glitch.

< Message edited by spawn -- 10/5/2006 2:00:27 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Futaba 3-Channel 2.4GHz FASST - 10/8/2006 4:53:29 PM

SAVAGEJIM

Posts: 4737
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From: behind my 'puter, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spawn

...IMHO I find that nomadio bashes spektrum products in this forum and I not sure if this is because of ill-will or resentment. I would say that the misinformation may work some time but not all the time. I think its time that you stop bashing spektrum until you have some solid proof about the greatness of your product with proof otherwise you will only create a bad name for yourself. I certainly like your products but not the way you bash other products.

I have to say I agree here. I personally like the features of Nomandio and am saving up to get the Futaba DSS, excuse me, FHSS module. I eventually want to get the Sensor since the Futaba upgrade does not come with telemetry.

Nomandio_Sales, you are very knowledgeable about your product and I assume you are an electrical engineer with a specialization in elctronics design. If you are such, I respect your opinion as a professional opinion since I know little about EM transmission and other technologies related to radio.

I understand you are an expert and a 100% loyal employee and fan of Nomandio and know where you are coming from. But I ask you to post more with an objective tone and not one that does imply the competitor is inferior. Spawn and I are not trying to flame or bash you, we just want your professional and objective knowledge. We here sometimes feel we have to walk on egg shells with you because we feel you become offended too easily. We know your opinions lean strongly towards Nomandio, but Nomandio is very fortunate to have someone who is as knowledgeble and fiercely loyal to them.

As I said before, I am impressed with the features that Sensor has and plan to acquire one in the future. There are alot of great features I want from such a system that I cannot currently get with my 3PK with Spektrum module. I really want the built in telemetry. You don't have to sell me on the Sensor, I'm already as good as sold (I just need the get the money).
Again, I stress, we by all means do not mean any disrespect. The information you have provided thus far is great and very informative and I myself look forward to see what you have to say about any of Nomandio's products.

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