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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Alcohol
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Alcohol - 9/29/2006 2:40:35 AM   
hands without shadows



Posts: 6128
Joined: 11/23/2005
From: Denfield, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Alcohol, more specifically ethanol. How do I make it? Just make some booze and distill it right? This will be for a turbojet engine that will be mounted on a scooter. Im comfortable with the whole building the engine thing but making the fuel (yes, I want to make it, I refuse to buy it) I'm not too sure on. I doubt anyone here knows but if you know feel free to post, I'd appreciate it.

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RE: Alcohol - 9/29/2006 3:32:42 AM   
hpi apollo



Posts: 2639
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: Georgetown, KY, USA
Status: offline 		have you thought of buying a 5 gallon drum of methanol? i pay about $21 for 5 gallons


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RE: Alcohol - 9/29/2006 4:52:57 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3462
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Ethanol is *not* a good fuel for a turbojet. Jet A1 is a good fuel for a turbojet and if it's a model turbojet (like a Wren or whatever) you'll also have to add a little turbine oil or synthetic 2-stroke oil so as to keep the bearings turning.

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RE: Alcohol - 9/30/2006 12:22:15 AM   
hands without shadows



Posts: 6128
Joined: 11/23/2005
From: Denfield, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I want the added challenge or making my own fuel as I would eventually like to run my (real) car of ethanol, or at least gasohol. This will not be a model turbojet, it will be a homemade one made from an automotive turbocharger. I wont have to add oil to the fuel for this project because I will have a separate oil pump for cooling and the turbo bearings (usually a turbo has between 25 and 40 psi of oil running through its bearings constantly) Its not even so much that I mind paying 21 bucks for 5 gallons of methanol, its that an engine like this will go through a gallon a minute, which adds up to a bit too much for my liking.

< Message edited by hands without shadows -- 9/30/2006 12:59:56 AM >

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RE: Alcohol - 9/30/2006 6:34:40 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3462
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		I've built a few turbo-based gas turbines (did you see me on Scrapheap Challenge/JYW?) and I can tell you that propane/LPG is about the easiest fuel to use for these engines. You can use liquid fuels but you're going to have to use an atomizing spray nozzle and a pump that'll do about 55psi or more.

Propane is good because it needs no pump, is easy to ignite and is very tolerant of bad flame-tube design.

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RE: Alcohol - 9/30/2006 5:31:01 PM   
downunder



Posts: 3198
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		hands
I'm an aircraft engine fitter (or was) and I've had a lot of experience with full size turbojets and afterburning turbofans (especially) so I feel I should tell you that unless you really know what you're doing then you'll be building a potential bomb. To be honest, I don't think gas turbines should be allowed for model use or just to fool around with.

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RE: Alcohol - 9/30/2006 8:59:11 PM   
XJet


 

Posts: 3462
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Downunder, lots of folks have built turbocharger-based turbines and nobody I know of has (yet) been injured.

However, you are very correct about the dangers. Work out the amount of kinetic energy in a turbo wheel spinning at 160KRPMs and it makes a 44-magnum bullet look pretty mild.

Fortunately, most of those people who don't understand the physics also lack the skills/knowledge required to actually get one going.

Since I was one of the first to document my own experiments on the Net I also included an FAQ that focuses quite strongly on the risks and safety issues.

It's been my experience that the heavy iron volute used in most car turbochargers does a fairly good job of containing the bits when a turbine wheel fragments and the comparitively tiny thrust bearing generally starts to fail before critical RPMs are reached anyway. The result of this bearing failure is that the compressor begins to rub on the intake volute and the frictional losses (plus flow losses) effectively act as a rev-limiter -- albeit one that's terminal to the future value of the turbo.

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RE: Alcohol - 10/1/2006 12:59:14 AM   
hands without shadows



Posts: 6128
Joined: 11/23/2005
From: Denfield, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I know the dangers and I know the advantages of propane over a liquid fuel. I am fairly confident in what I'm doing and I fully understand the physics behind this. Once finished it will have at least one safety shield and an emergency fuel shutoff system. I'm doing this for the fun of it so I will be taking my time and making sure I do things right. If I don't think its safe, I'm not gonna be near it when I run it. In short, I'm not an idiot. I've already figured out how to make the ethanol, and will be building the apparatus necessary next weekend.

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RE: Alcohol - 10/1/2006 3:51:29 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3198
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: XJet
Fortunately, most of those people who don't understand the physics also lack the skills/knowledge required to actually get one going.

What concerns me is when they start coming up for sale second or third hand so the "cowboys" can afford one. Then they read that the faster they spin the more thrust they develop. You can bet they'll figure out a way to force fuel into them faster. Once.

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RE: Alcohol - 10/1/2006 6:50:19 PM   
hands without shadows



Posts: 6128
Joined: 11/23/2005
From: Denfield, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Downunder, I can see why your concerned and I wanna say thanks, not many people care about random people on forums getting blown up these days.

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