RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat  
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/28/2008 5:20:07 PM   
VKerster


 

Posts: 266
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: highland, MI, USA
Status: offline 		CHARLES AND T-CAT BROS, AFTER LOOKING AS CHARLES' PICS, I LOOKED AT MY WING FROM THE CRASH IN UDDER DISBELIEF. NOT ONLY DID MY CENTER SECTION LOOK LIKE CHARLES' PICS, BUT I FOUND THE LEADING EDGE HAS NO SPAR, AND THE TRAILING EDGE HAS ONLY A 1/8" BALSA SPAR!! I'M NOW CONVENCED I WAS RIDING ON BORROWED TIME UNTIL I WOULD HAVE HAD AN IN FLIGHT WING FAILURE. WILL POST PICS SOON.
FOR T-CAT #2, I'M GOING TO TRY TO INSERT A SMALLER DIA. TUBE FROM TUBE TO TUBE LIKE CHARLES, EXECPT I'M GOING TO TRY TO DRILL THRU THE RIBS THAT THE TUBES BUTT UP TO AND INSERT IT ONE INTO THE OTHER SINCE THE WING SECTIONS ARE NOT GLUED TOGETHER YET, AND USE J.B. WELD TO GLUE THEM TOGETHER. ALL OTHER IDEAS ARE APPERICATED. I WONDER IF THE FLY RC MAGAZINE ADDRESSES THIS ISSUE IN THEIR ARTICLE. I WISH KMP WOULD CHIME IN AND ENLIGHTEN ALL OF US HOW THEY WOULD FIX THIS MESS ............. TOLEDO IS NEXT WEEKEND.


< Message edited by VKerster -- 3/28/2008 5:27:07 PM >

_____________________________

VKerster

(in reply to CHARLES WINTER)
       Post #: 826

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/28/2008 6:44:54 PM   
CHARLES WINTER



Posts: 110
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: MERCED, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Good morning T-Cat builders. The new center tube is installed. The installation goes as follows: Put soft paper plugs in each outer wing tube, (To help keep resin contained when installing center tube) Rough-up new center tube with rough file (Want BITE/HOLDING surface). Mix resin with a small amount of Chopped Carbon (Just enough so that it is stringy/gooie, thick enough that you can control the placing of it inside the two outer tubes. Put a good amount of resin mix in each outer tubes. Brush a good amount of resin on the new 10 inch roughed-up tube. Suggest you put a Visual Mark on new center tube so you know when you have it centered. I suggest you use GLOVES on your hands, this method can get a bit messy. Install new center tube and add epoxy to areas that appear to be without epoxy. I did add more Chopped Carbon to the mix after the center tube was installed so I could build up the the voids I could see. I also JAMMED round tooth picks into the void areas to insure the Chopped Carbon was pushed all around the entire assembly. The results (This morning) look very good. I will continue to develop a spar addition along side of the center tube. The total weight of this modification should be approximately 4 ounces. I am also in the process of "Laying-Up" formula ONE racing props. Picture shows molds with props in the "Curing Stage" and some of the completed props. PS: If anyone wants a 10 inch aluminum high strength tube and some chopped carbon I will give it to you FREE, all I would want is the shipping cost. This we can figure out if you are interested.

Col. Chuck Winter

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(in reply to roncoleman)
       Post #: 827

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/28/2008 6:51:04 PM   
n9331v


 

Posts: 324
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: Hampshire, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Charles Winter

It would be a great help if I could get the supplies from you to do this mod, I will be happy to pay for shipping plus additional for the supplies. Can you provide us with the measurements needed to cut out the material for this mod.

Thanks

Ed

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Mooney N9331V

(in reply to CHARLES WINTER)
       Post #: 828

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/28/2008 8:18:04 PM   
Pylon2


 

Posts: 63
Joined: 10/20/2007
From: sleaford, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I agree with you totally,I am going to leave my Tcat centre section alone. I should be flying it in a couple of weeks and will report back . This modification in my mind will only push up the weight further. Verster's original plane flew well with 2x Zenoah 26 and had no structural failure at all, only seccumbing to engine failure and a oak tree!

(in reply to scale9planes)
       Post #: 829

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/29/2008 8:33:08 AM   
CHARLES WINTER



Posts: 110
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: MERCED, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi T-Cat builders-- Next step in strengthening center section. I made a Spar/Doubler out of 1/4 inch plywood. This will serve as a Short Spar, Short Doubler and Barrier to hold resin/chopped carbon mix in place. Tack glue Spar/Doubler with CA glue so it stays in place. Roll some small soft paper towel plugs that will be softly jammed in the void areas around center tube to keep resin/carbon mix from dropping through voids. Mix resin and chopped carbon to a STRINGY/GOOIE mix. Brush resin mix in areas shown in pictures. It will take approximately 2 to 4 ounces of resin mix. When this combination hardens, the new center tube will be a permanent part of the center section. Tomorrow when this is hard I will start to cover this area. SAY TUNED TO THIS CHANNEL. PS. I will make the offer again to anyone that wants a 10 inch strong tube and some chopped carbon, you can have it FREE. Send me an e-mail with your mailing address. After you receive the supplies you can send me a check for the postage. The box should have what it cost me. My e-mail address is chaswinter@aol.com

Col. Chuck Winter

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(in reply to Pylon2)
       Post #: 830

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/29/2008 8:40:15 AM   
CHARLES WINTER



Posts: 110
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: MERCED, CA, USA
Status: offline 		T-Cat Builders -- I missed sending the first 2 pictures showing the Spar/Doubler and paper towel plugs.

Col. Chuck Winter

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(in reply to CHARLES WINTER)
       Post #: 831

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/30/2008 6:13:47 AM   
kochj


 

Posts: 1507
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Victoria, MN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pylon2

I agree with you totally,I am going to leave my Tcat centre section alone. I should be flying it in a couple of weeks and will report back . This modification in my mind will only push up the weight further. Verster's original plane flew well with 2x Zenoah 26 and had no structural failure at all, only seccumbing to engine failure and a oak tree!



Did you miss what Verster's just wrote prior to your post about his wings and that he is now thinking that he was on borrowed time before he had a failure???


CW'S mod will add very little weight, and will give much added security!

Justin

_____________________________

Winning isn''''t everything, it''''s all there is.

(in reply to Pylon2)
       Post #: 832

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/30/2008 7:15:14 AM   
CHARLES WINTER



Posts: 110
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: MERCED, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi T-Cat Builders -- Fit and CA glued 3/32 balsa wood pieces in wing opening to make a base for 2 once fiber glass cloth. This process does not need to be very NEAT or ACCURATE, it's just a bottom for the fiber glass and resin. I like to use PACER Z-Poxy (PT-40) for this type of resin work. Very user friendly and sands easily. I mixed approximately 2 onces of resin. I brushed this mixture on top of the first layer of fiber glass cloth to insure good saturation. I then layed the second layer on top of first and brushed on more resin. This process only takes less than half of your resin mix. Now add filler/thickener to the remaining resin. You can use Micro Ballons or a favorite you may have. I use "Colloidal Silica" adhesive filler. I do alot of fiber glass work so I have cans of this filler. If your interested in fiber glass products, this is a "West Systems" brand 406-2. It weighs next to nothing but thickenes the resin to any thickness you want. I mixed a lot of filler to the remaining resin to make it into a soft paste. I now put this THICK mix on top of the fiber glass cloth. I use a brush to push the resn into all of the voids. I now take a Playing card or Old Credit Card and very - very slowly drag the Card over the thick resin mix. You must drag the Playing Card very slowly so the thick resin mix stays in place and you only take off the high areas. You can check for low spots and add or shift resin around. With a little practice you can get an adequate level surface. STAY TUNED for the next edition....

Col. Chuck Winter

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(in reply to kochj)
       Post #: 833

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/30/2008 12:16:59 PM   
VKerster


 

Posts: 266
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: highland, MI, USA
Status: offline 		T-CAT BROS, THIS IS THE LEFT SIDE OF THE CENTER SECTION OF MY CRASHED T-CAT WING. THIS IS THE AREA WHERE THE TREE BRANCH WENT THRU. NOTICE NO LEADING EDGE SPAR. THE TRAILING EDGE SPAR IS ONLY A 1/8" BALSA. WHERE'S THE STRUCTURE?? ONE CAN PLAINLY SEE WHERE THE ALUM. TUBE BUTTED UP AGAINST THE RIB AND THE OPEN AREA WHERE THE TUBE SHOULD HAVE INTERSECTED THE LEFT TUBE. STILL THINKING HOW I MIGHT GET THE CONNECTING TUBE IN MY NEW WING WITHOUT CUTTING UP THE BOTTOM OF THE C-SECTION.
THE SECOND BATCH T-CATS ARE SKINNED WITH THE KEVLAR COMPOSITE SHEETING. MINE LOOKS MUCH STRONGER THAN MY 1ST BATCH(T-CAT #1) WAS. KMP MUST FEEL THIS NEW SKIN IS SUFFICENT TO HANDLE THE HIGH G- LOADS THIS AREA WILL EXPERIENCE. SINCE KMP IS SOOOO QUIET ON THIS FORUM ABOUT THIS ISSUE, AM GOING TO CALL THEM AND SEE WHAT LIAIBILITIES THEY MIGHT FEEL RESPONSIBILE FOR IN THE EVENT OF STRUCTURAL FAILURES WITH THESE T-CATS.......

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< Message edited by VKerster -- 3/30/2008 12:23:06 PM >

_____________________________

VKerster

(in reply to CHARLES WINTER)
       Post #: 834

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/30/2008 3:57:17 PM   
chasrb



Posts: 953
Joined: 1/12/2003
From: Warrenton, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Sad to see that we have spent many dollars + many more dollars for the right parts just to get this plane where it is a truly flight worthy airframe. I mentioned in the earlier section of this forum my concerns for the strength of the center section and now I see my concerns were well placed or so it would seem.

I am questioning whether or not to keep this airframe. I have way too much money in this with radials, retracts, digital servos and Smartfly equipment just to have all that in an airframe that will, more than likely, fail because of poor engineering and quality control on the part of the mfg.

Maybe I'll just use all the original parts and build it as a static model and sell it to a theme restaurant...

It should not have been this much work for an ARF!!!



I feel beter now...


_____________________________

Chasman

(in reply to VKerster)
       Post #: 835

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/30/2008 6:11:26 PM   
tahustvedt



Posts: 386
Joined: 1/28/2004
From: Bardufoss, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Is there any indication of overstressing in the beam on any of the models that have not been crashed?

(in reply to chasrb)
       Post #: 836

RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat - 3/30/2008 6:50:30 PM   
johangr