RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build

RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (Full Version)

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Props4ever -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/23/2007 9:57 AM)
Mike, You are the man!!, great building of add-ons so far, i want to ask you, where will you place forward door on left side as seen in your pictures of real AC-130, will you be completing forward fuselage sheeting first or cutting out door in current stage?. Btw any thoughts on puffing powder from the cannons as yet? Sammy

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/23/2007 8:28 PM)
Sammy, I will be framing the door,sheeting, then cutting the door out. This picture shows the approximate location of the crew door. All these mods are tough. I dont have any real specs or measurements, just a few photos to guide me. I currently have no plans for a "puffing" or flashing gun. Now this could change as I continue to add functionality. I have plenty to work on before I get to possibly adding to the gun system. I had a thought last night. I might add a control arm to both FLIR turrents and tie them into the rudder movement. As long as it doesnt add alot of weight, any future mods could happen. Mike

maineac58 -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/23/2007 8:51 PM)
The crew door location looks just about right to me. I had 1500 hours in the C130 as a loadmaster and I would say that have the location pretty darned close. Great job..I will have to do one now. Keep up the good work!

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/25/2007 7:47 AM)
I finally got the "gap" taken care of on my cockpit mating surface. I mixed some resin and milled fiberglass, wiped it on, then installed my cockpit. Now I have vituallyno gap. It worked quite nicely. I will be taken a break from building this porject to finish my workshop. I will be building a wall instead of using a plastic sheet to keep my basement clean. I will be installing an air filtration and dust collection system to try and keep it clean. Nothing worse than cutting or sanding while creating a huge cloud of dust. I also want to build a "draftman" type board to hold my plans, rather than just taping them up on the wall. I need to create a better shelf system to clean up my floor. Currently I have an old ARF box where I throw all my balsa scaps into. This thing tends to overflow and clutter my walking area. This should allow you (Troy) to catch up alittle. I hope to have a less cluttered workspace, unlike that pic I sent you. Mike

oltimer -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/25/2007 9:16 PM)
If you want great detail and authentic lettering for your model go to: www.GetStensils.com. Gary Sibert has a set that I saw in Toledo this year for a Yellow Aircraft P-47 that looked so real you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. He had three pages of copy that the model required. It was to scale of the aircraft with terriffic detail. He also has prop logos that is so detailed that some of the lettering is only readable with a magnifier! I plan to use his stuff on my Palmer Hercules when I get to that point. Right now I'm still struggling with the drawings like everyone else! Watch out for the wing construction notes! If you lay out the parts you will find that the engine nacelle ribs won't fit as he describes. They protrude below the half inch balsa blocks he calls for to raise the spars off the building surface. The rib protrusion is O.K., but the engine nacelle ribs won't make the grade. Oltimer

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/25/2007 9:33 PM)
Oltimer, Thanks for the suggestion on the stencils. As for the wing construction, I'm not surprised. My new building technique will be to layout everything and do a trial fit. I noticed alot of issues that could have been simple fixes, if I would have layed out all the parts. I want to modify Palmers wing design to incorporate the outboard engines on the center section. I'm not sure how I will get the flap sections to work correctly. Currently, there are 4 flap sections, and these are divided by the inboard/outboard wing panels. So this will add to the modification challenge. To anyone with AC-130 knowledge, I have a question. I know where the flares are located on the wing (Aft external fuel tank) Look at the attached picture. Is this the location for the Fuselage flares? Mike

schwatd -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/25/2007 9:47 PM)
This should allow you (Troy) to catch up alittle. I hope to have a less cluttered workspace, unlike that pic I sent you. I'm glad you have such faith in my skills. Your delema about the wing sections is interesting. By the looks of a picture I have included, the only place to break the wing would be at the end of the flaps just prior to the aileron. Correct? Not going to shorten the wing up much if that's the only place to break it.

oltimer -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/26/2007 12:32 AM)
This message is to those who are just starting or have just begun the project I have some information that I would like to pass along for your information regarding building the C-130. 1. The cargo doors; I used a 3/4" metal hinge as the pivot for the main ramp (ACE Hardware). I used #2-56 screws with a 100 degree flat head from Micro Fasteners. when closed the door has the opposing flanges on the hinge facing each other. At the rear of the upper door I used a two section piece of brass hinge that is 1/2" when open. If you use more than two sections you will begin to deform the structure when the hinge is rotated upward. This hinge is available in various lengths from Nelson Hobbies @Nelsonhobby.com. I tried to use the setup that Palmer suggests for operating the doors (ie;1/4 brass tubing) but the force to open the doors (when the actuating lever was fastened in the middle of the fuse as depicted) flexed the brass shaft which promptly bound in the wood bearings. The actuatior needs to be quite near a support for best operation! Either to the extreme left or right whichever you prefer. 2. The main gear retracting system; I didn't like the setup as a lot of you also expressed and it also took up precious room in the mian cargo hold. There just wasn't room for my tank with the retracts as shown. What I did was to make my own from carbon fiber tubes and a retract servo. I used a 3/8"I.D. carbon fiber wrapped tube and a telescoping unidirectional carbon fiber tube inside. The 3/8" carbon fiber tube could be brass. It is used to support the torque tube which is carbon fiber as noted (this could also be brass if desired). The retract torque tube has a flat round metal plate (wheel) attached to the end of it. Two pins are soldered in place on the wheel to match the outer most holes in the retract servo wheel. The diameter of the metal wheel is the same as the plastic servo wheel on the retract servo. The two pins holes in the metal wheel need to match two holes in the retract servo wheel as precisely as practical. The reason for this coupling scheme is to be able to service the servo or replace it if necessary. When the retract servo is operated it rotates a torque rod that runs the length of the plywood slider board and is supported by the fuselage structure via the 3/8 tubing. Attached to the slider board are two ball link control horns that I had laying around spaced in about 1" from the edge of the board. I don't remember who makes it but it is a yoke shaped affair with the ball link fastened through the yoke portion. It has a screw hole that is supposed to attach to the control surface jack screw. Anyway that screw hole is used to mount it to the slider board. The torque shaft has two lever arms attached to it aligned with the control horns. Each end of a 4-40 threaded rod is equiped with a ball link threaded on for adjustment and articulation. The ball links are in turn connected to the control horn on one end and the torque rod lever on the other end. When the unit is set up properly the retract servo rotates the torque shaft slightly over 180 degrees. By placing the torque rod levers at the appropriate place the slider board will move up equivalent to the length of the lever arms on the torque rod with a slight amount of locking overtravel in each direction. Please note that the lever arms are only HALF of the desired movement since they are rotating 180 degrees!! Very simple and very realistic looking! I did use the Century Jet struts to mount the mains. I purchased the struts and the nose gear from them. The slider board had some stiction to it that I didn't like so I epoxied two pieces of formica 1/4" wide x the height of the slider board travel to the two formers behind the slider board. That took care of the stiction problem!! The retracts will support the full aircraft weight plus some. I used lead weights to see just how robust the system was and with more than 50 pounds on it no problem. Of course it won't lift the 50 pounds, but it isn't supposed to either! The torque tube is set up to rotate toward the OUTSIDE of the fuselage so some trimming of the stringers in the adjacet region of the levers is required to make them clear the lever. 3. The Tail Section: What a mess this is! I ended up using two servo's for the elevators and one for the rudder. There is room in the tail for the servo's, a match box and a lithium Ion battery. Now all I have is signal wires and I don't have to worry about the voltage drop of such a long run of wire. I used Robart hinge points for all of the hinges but I drilled out the rivet and replaced the with a continuous piece of music wire so I could remove the control surfaces for painting, repair, etc. To accomplish this I epoxied a piece of brass tubing into the block that the torque rod is anchored to. In turn I can now just remove the music wire and slide the control surface straight back to clear the torque rod end. Works great and should last a long time! Be sure to secure the control surface in the exact location you want it to be in before the epoxy sets. Do the hinges last in the same manner. Use over size holes to allow some wiggle room for small errors. Do one half of the hinge at a time with the music wire and torque rod in place. Now you can still make minor corrections if necessary. The rudder as I said is similar. To get that nice sharp edge at the training edge of the stabilizer I use the following procedure; sheet the surface but don't sand the rear edge to a taper. Leave it full thickness of slightly less. Now cut a piece of 0.010 thick epoxy sheet about 1.5" wide by the length of the control surface pocket. Teat fit the epoxy sheet in place and tape it down both top and bottom just slightly overlapping the sheeting underneath (approx.1/8" to 3/16"). Install the control surface. Make sure everything is properly aligned. Now check to see if you have full control motion without touching the epoxy sheet!! If you cannot achieve full control motion determine how much interference you have and run strips of 3/4" masking tape along the leading edge surfaces where it contacts the epoxy sheet (a shim)top and bottom. You can use almost any thin wood or other material as a shim. Most generally this is not necessary. You can also move the epoxy sheet back a little too. Scuff the epoxy on the "down" side and epoxy it to the rear edge of the stabilizer, etc. Let the epoxy dry thoroughly and then remove the control surface and the shims. You should now have a nice straight, clean training edge at the rear of the stabilizer. You can fill the front surface of the epoxy sheet with your favorite filler it doesn't take much and most of it sands off. Thin plywood can be used but it sometimes warps. Before the epoxy dries make sure that everythng is aligned and vertically or horizontally (rudder) centered on the structure supporting it. 4. Fowler Flaps; What to do!! I am using a system that was designed originally for a 1/5th scale P-38 and would you believe 4" wide fowler flaps!! Model Airplane New published the article and a set of plans is still available for this system. Originally it was air actuated, but later a servo solution appeared and this is the one I am using. I prototyped it and it does a great job. Alignment of some pieces is required but not more than anyone building this monster has already done from what I have read! See Model Airplane News March, 1997 for details. I don't know the plan # off hand but I'm sure that it can be found at their website. The servo article (MAN March, 1997) shows a C-130 with the flaps installed. Easy to make too!! Iif you are a tinkerer you may find the air system of interest. It was published in MAN July, 1992 and again MAN June, 1993. Those plan numbers are:FSP07922 and FSP06932. Robert Almes is the designer. Enough of my book of tricks Regards to all who want to wade through this. I will post pictures of what I have expounded upon if requested. Oh yes, one last word. The epoxy sheet is available to modelers, etc from Professional Plastics, Inc. in Calif. WWW.Professionalplastics.com. Go to fiberglass sheets. They go from real thin to real thick! Reasonable prices too, best I have found after being stung a few times. Thanks again, Frank

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/26/2007 1:02 AM)
Oltimer- I would like to see the pictures of your elevator hinges and installation. I already have my gear installed and my cargo ramp, both are working great. After I finish sheeting the lower nose area, I will be returning to finish the tail section. I have initially installed the single elevator servo as the plans call for, but I later noticed my brass control arm solder connection broke. I would have lost my aircraft. Now I'm looking into installing a servo PER elevator half. As you stated, there is plenty of room in the tail and horizontal stab (between the ribs). Thanks for the build comments! Mike

oltimer -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/26/2007 6:26 PM)
Mike; I can't seem to get the pics to upload! Any secrets here?? Frank

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/27/2007 12:49 AM)
Oltimer here are your pics. I resized them. I hope you dont mind me posting them. THESE PICTURES ARE NOT MINE. THESE ARE PICTURES OF OLTIMER'S BUILD. Mike

Props4ever -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/27/2007 10:53 AM)
Mike, She is looking sweeter day by day[;)]. What is the height of the huge vertical fin on your bird?, i bet its almost as tall as waist line of average person. You seemed to have used some kind of covering skin to cover the flying surfaces on balsa, what is it?, looks very smooth surfaces. What type of servos are you using on both rudder and elevator?

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/27/2007 4:10 PM)
The recent pictures I posted was NOT of my C-130 build. These were pictures from Oltimer. I was just helping him by resizing the pictures so he could post them here. I'm still working on sheeting my nose and belly. I haven't started on my tail section yet. I have alot of little fuselage mods to do before I get back to working on my tail. I do plan on using Oltimer's technique for the elevator leading edge and the elevator rounded "cove". Mike

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (4/28/2007 6:46 AM)
Not much in the way of building , but I do have some new pictures. Pic#1- This shows the initial cuts for the 40mm cannon installation. Pic#2- This shows the setting and elliminating of the gap in the cockpit. I used some resin and micro-balloons. I spread it over the platform, then covered with wax paper. I put my cockpit on and taped in place. I have no gap now. Pic#3- I stated sheeting the belly Pic#4- Belly is almost sheeted. I have started running my gear air lines. Mike

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/3/2007 7:40 AM)
I started to work on my nose gear doors. It looks great, but the plan design doesnt quite work. It calls for a drilled hole through the main strut to attach the gear rod. I dont see me drilling through the centuryjet retract without causing more issues. I'm trying to design a bracket to attach the control rod that opens the main nose gear door. I'm almost done sheeting the area around my crew door. I'm trying to determine the best hinging for this door. I have never been very good at mounting doors similar to this. I should finish sheeting the nose soon. Beware of all the things that need to be completed prior to sheeting this area. Crew door and gear doors must be completed prior to sheeting. Attached are a few pics of my slow progress. Mike

Props4ever -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/3/2007 4:54 PM)
Hey Mike, I am closely watching how you will be doing hinging and mechanics of them on nose doors of your Herky bird, i have almost similar set up on my Connie as on the C-130s forward nose gear door, i haven't come across this step as yet but will be soon. You are my lead on this step....[:D][;)]

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/4/2007 4:07 AM)
Well, I finally made some progress. It took quite a bit of time to get the nose done. I was planning on mounting the forward FLIR mod, but I had to sheet and install the gear doors first. I also got my battery switches and my air retracts fill valve installed. All convieniently hidden behind the crew access door. Pic#1- Here's a shot of the crew door. Once I got the door built, I used 3 small robart hinges to get the right opening action. I'm trying to decide whether I will use small magnets or a hatch latch to keep the door closed. If I have enough room, I will build steps into the door. Pic#2- Here's my AC-130 master gunner posing with his baby. This is a good angle and shows the approx location of the door. I think I got it real close to the actual door. Pic#3- Here's a neat shot looking right down the nose. I still need to install a shim between the cockpit and the forward fuselage to clean up that gap. I had the nose gear off while I finished sheeting the nose. I'm thinking about making the nose gear doors open/close with air actuators. I do not like Palmers design for attaching the gear door to the nose retract. Mike

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/4/2007 6:26 AM)
I decided to install my air lines for my retracts. This was a clean installation as you can see by the pics. Pic#1- This is the main retracts. I routed the air lines to keep to the formers and keep my cargo area clear. Pic#2- This shows my air valve installation. Once again, keeping all the air lines out of the way. If I decide to add air cylinders to my gear doors, I will only have to add a "T" near the air tank. Mike

Props4ever -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/9/2007 10:15 AM)
Hey Mike, Just wondering if you will be using Jomar Glitch Buster on this C-130 and on your Hawkeye?, plus what other safety electronics will you be using on these giants...

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/9/2007 4:54 PM)
Props4ever- I have no idea if I will incorporate any kind of "glitch busting" technology. Right now I am just trying to get the aircraft built. Ask me again in 6 months. I dont have anything special installed in my Hawkeye. I'm am using the JR 10 channel Synth RX, but that won't protect against glitches. If the plane's time is up, then I build a new project. Let's just hope I get a long life out of the Hawkeye. After a chat with my LHS owner, the test flights will probably be done in Bowling Green, Kentucky. He has volunteered to help me and video tape both the Hawkeye and the C-130. http://www.skymacrc.com/ Mike

shoveldirt -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/11/2007 6:20 PM)
Just putting my name in the hat. I've been working on the same bird, off and on, for a year now. Thanks for all the bits of advice. I've actually gone back and redone certain parts. I'm not as experienced as you guys, but I'll help if I can.

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/11/2007 6:30 PM)
SHoveldirt- Welcome to the "C-130 build club". Can you post some pictures of your build? I post mine pictures hoping people can benefit from my build. By no means am I a great builder, but I do try. Mike

schwatd -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/11/2007 11:39 PM)
Hey Mike, Might I make a suggestion on a tag line for the club name,.... "The C-130 Build Club" "Founders of the More Money Than Brains Gang!"

UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/12/2007 12:01 AM)
Troy, Isn't that the truth. I would hate to see the dollar amount associated with this build. Mike

schwatd -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (5/12/2007 1:23 AM)
Well lets see so far, ---wheels, $40.00, ---RCV-90SP engines, $1400.00, ---Palmer Plans, $98.00, ---PCK C-130 $571.00, ---Zinger Props, $145.00, ---Blue Print Alterations $75.00, Being able to have a really cool Hercules,......Priceless! and I haven't even started to add the hardware, a radio, fuel tanks, glass, retracts, etc. My guess would be nearly $7000.00 maybe more depending on some often overlooked costs. Mike what do you think? Oh, and I contacted Larry fron the flying club you mentioned, are you going to try to have your bird down there for the Vette Fly In?

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