RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (Full Version)

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UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/7/2007 11:36 PM)

I'm all for scale flying. I have my "beater" planes to do all my aerobatics with.

Troy/Grinder,
Do you know what size thread are on the exhaust pipes? Once I start building the wing, I will need to get the engines and exhaust extensions on order. I'm curious to know if www.macspro.com has the parts we need or do we need to look elsewhere.

Mike



shoveldirt -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 12:27 AM)

The flexible extensions with the 90 deg. ends look like they might work well.



UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 4:57 AM)

I got my tail basically installed. Everything lined up quite nicely.

Mike



grinder-RCU -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 8:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UkerDuker

Grinders displays the massive torque forces involved with a single engine. If we have 4 of these acting on a wing, we will need every bit of strength. This gives a good arguement for including the outboard engine within the center wing section. I'm wondering if we can extend the carbonfiber tube (that Oltimer used) to encompass the aditional ribs to the outboard engine. Basically, will the holes line up as it's cut now?

Mike


I have wondered about the #1 and #4 engine being on its own removable wing section. The joiner process did not look very substancial at all. But i don't think i'm that skilled at moving the wing seam for the outboard section so i will take a chance and leave it the way it is.

Grinder.



grinder-RCU -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 8:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UkerDuker

I'm all for scale flying. I have my "beater" planes to do all my aerobatics with.

Troy/Grinder,
Do you know what size thread are on the exhaust pipes? Once I start building the wing, I will need to get the engines and exhaust extensions on order. I'm curious to know if www.macspro.com has the parts we need or do we need to look elsewhere.

Mike


From the RCV engine forum.


The thread sizes are as follows:
58CD, 91CD, 90SP & 120SP = M11x0.75
60SP = M10x0.75

There are numerous alternative pipes you can use, please ensure that it is suitable for a 4-stroke engine. The Saito's flexi pipe should be fine.

Best regards
Laurenne


_____________________________

Technical Support
RCV Engines - UK




Heavy Date -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 3:05 PM)

Howard Kahn made his B-17 wing removable leaving the inboards on the center and the outboards on the removable section. He has had no troubles with it at all. If your RCVs are shaking after break in, then you broke them in wrong, are using the wrong fuel, or have a prop issue. Once broken in they are very smooth. It took several hours on the bench to break mine in, and they will draw fuel from a real long distance. I had 30" of fuel line out without a pump and it sucked up every drop without a sputter. They also will run a long time on a little fuel. I ran mine on the bench for 1 hour and 10 minutes on 14Oz of fuel.

It also seems that the best 3 blade prop is the MA 16X10. We had custom props made at 15.5X13 and they were just junk. No pull at all. but the MA 16X10 3 blade worked out great.

One last thing never us plastic spinner back plates with RCV engines. It will melt them.
Hans



schwatd -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 7:09 PM)

Hans,

Very good info on the break-in. My C-130 will be turning 4 bladed 13x12s as called for by the plans and allowed by the engine manufacture. Any info on turning a 3" smaller prop with your RCVs?



grinder-RCU -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 9:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Heavy Date

Howard Kahn made his B-17 wing removable leaving the inboards on the center and the outboards on the removable section. He has had no troubles with it at all. If your RCVs are shaking after break in, then you broke them in wrong, are using the wrong fuel, or have a prop issue. Once broken in they are very smooth. It took several hours on the bench to break mine in, and they will draw fuel from a real long distance. I had 30" of fuel line out without a pump and it sucked up every drop without a sputter. They also will run a long time on a little fuel. I ran mine on the bench for 1 hour and 10 minutes on 14Oz of fuel.

It also seems that the best 3 blade prop is the MA 16X10. We had custom props made at 15.5X13 and they were just junk. No pull at all. but the MA 16X10 3 blade worked out great.

One last thing never us plastic spinner back plates with RCV engines. It will melt them.
Hans


Nope the engine has calmed down quite a bit. I'm in love with this engine. All your points are correct. I had ordered special fuel from red max in the states and had to drive to Pt. Huron to pick it up cause they won't won't ship to Can. Break in takes at leasts 4-5 hrs maybe more. The more you run them the better they get. I don't have any vibrations problems at all now. I'm using an APC prop 2B 16x14 and also a MA 3B 16x10. Also correct about the back plate spinner. The combustion chamber is directly behind the back plate area and gets really hot.

grinder.



Heavy Date -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 9:37 PM)

I love them too!!! Just have to learn a bit different way of tuning and prop sizes. As for the 13X12 4 blade question, I really could not say as I have never run one. I would think you would need a bit higher idle as the smaller prop will have less flywheel effect. All I can say is try it on the stand and see how it does. Wish I could be more of a help.
Hans



shoveldirt -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 9:50 PM)

Guys-

Pardon the interruption, but Larry (PCK) strikes again. I just opened the bag that the WR's were in and there are no WR6's. Am I assuming correctly that they are exactly the same as 4 and 5?

Oltimer-

Did you get the 1.375 CF tubing from Aerospace Composites as well as the rods? I was hoping to find someone local that had it so I could work on it this weekend, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

thanks,
Travis



oltimer -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 10:32 PM)

Travis;

Yes, I did get the 1 /38" carbon fiber tube from Aerospace Composites. I used the whole 70" and it just barely does the job. I have about 16" in each outer wing panel. This is more than sufficient to carry the laod. The inner 1 1/4 tube is a 6 foot section of swimming pool tubing used for cleaning pools. It's made of hard aluminum and anodized too. My wing tube extends from the outside of outboard engine to the opposite side. The carbon fiber spar caps will handle any stresses outboard of the outboard engines. I plan to use a 1/4-20 nylon bolt to hold the wing panels together. I will have to remove the inboard engine cowl to access the bolt installation, but I don't think this is a biggie! Anyway I hope this gives you some ideas to work with. The tubing is pricey but nothing on this airplane has been inexpensive!

My kit too did not have W6 ribs, nor did it have the W4A called for at the inboard flap. I didn't like that arrangement anyway so I made another W4 rib and used it (see earlier pictures). I would suggest that on the wing especially make poster board templates of the W1, W5 and W7. You may need them when you start to assemble the flap area.

On the engine nacelle's there is a 1/4" square spruce stringer that runs the length of the engine nacelle. Be aware the drawing or the parts are wrong and don't fit the way it shows. You need to either spit the W8 and W9 engine mounts or make the 1/4 square thin in that section which makes them useless. I intend to modify the design a little and work from there.

Bought my "matched" set of RCV 91CD engines today! I just left my wallet!! Apparently the factory will sell matched sets if you request them. Hats off to my LHS.

Just in case you decide to use the tapered carbon fiber spar caps, I bought these from Aerospace Comp. also.

Frank



UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/8/2007 10:47 PM)

Oltimer- What is the part number for the 1 3/8" carbon tube? I only see 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" tubes.

How did you use the tapered carbon on the spars? Does the Carbon spar make up the entire spar or is it a wood/carbon combo spar?

Mike



oltimer -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/9/2007 1:15 AM)

Hi Mike;

The part number for the Aerospace Composite Products 1 1/4 I.D. x 0.062 wall thickness x 70" is "TUR-13A". This is what they call a "roll wrapped carbon tube which makes it VERY strong! The normal tubing is laid up with the fibers laying lengthwise around a mandrel. For the roll wrapped tube the fibers are flat like a ribbon and rolled around a mandrel. That is why it is more expensive than the "unidirectional" tubing.

My spars are a wood/carbon fiber lamination. First I spliced the spar wood so that it was a continuous spar six feet long! I then applied epoxy laminating resin to the wood and put a long strip of Saran Wrap on the work area (to catch the mess) and put the carbon fiber strip on the WIDE (1/2") side of the spar. Clamp or weight it down overnight or until the epoxy cures thoroughly. The spar should be clamped or weighted down as straight as practical. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it sure helps.

I only used the carbon fiber on the front spars. The rear spars don't need it.

The part numbers for the two DIFFERENT parts I used are as follows: "CLT3-62" described as 0.042-0.007" x 1/2" x 72". You will need 2 of these. They are used for the lower spar!

The part number for the second strip I used is: "CLT4-62" described as 0.084-0.014" x 1/2" x 72" . You will also need two of these.

When you are finished you will have four pieces of wood/carbon laminate, each 72" long. Each spar will be 144" long laid end to end. When you build the center section you will use all four spars with the thick end at the center of the assembly. Cut each spar at the end of the assembly and use it for the outer panel. Don't cut off too much excess or the spar will come out short for the outer panels. Measure, measure, measure! Be aware that you will have to deepen the rib notches for the front spars by the extra thickness. A 1/2 wide sanding stick works great!

The reason that the thicknesses are different is that the carbon fiber strips don't like compression loads so the THICKER SPAR IS USED ON THE TOP OF THE WING!!! That is because it is in compression when flying. The THIN strip is used on the BOTTOM spar.

Also, Mike I forgot to answer your question regarding the "TEE" shaped parts in Pic #6. I just traced it off of Sheet #1 of the plans and made a paper template then cut them out of 1/16 plywood. You obviously need two. Look between Formers #14 and 15 you will see the drafting symbol for wood-wavy lines. Move up to the wing cross section and you will see that the wood branches out just above the top of the side frame between the front and rear spars. It follows the top of the airfoil for the same distance between the spars. I used carbon paper to make my template. It should fit somewhat snug between the spars and then the lower end should fit snug between the formers 14 and 15. If you use the drawing the 5 degrees incidence comes out fairly close-between 4 and 4.5 degrees. I use a Craftsman 24" digital level that has 0.1 degree snesitivity which is pretty close for this operation.

Happy Flying, Frank



rcmiket -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/9/2007 2:01 AM)

I've been watching you all from the wings. Great progress and my compliments on your undertaking. I have a few words of advise 'keep it simple". Multi's are strange they give great satisfaction but will deal you a harsh blow at the same time. I realize that you all are undertaking something that few have the guts, nerve and wallets to do. Don't build them to survive a crash "beefing this up" and "I think this is better" will lead to a "lead sled" not a "airworthy aircraft". I kept my first muti very simple no retracts, lights, doors etc. and was rewarded with a great experience. Please don't feel that I'm intruding but sharing from experience. Mike I feel your pain on the E2C. I'm looking at the original plans and thinking of going the electric route. Good Luck and keep up the great work. Mike



UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/9/2007 7:43 AM)

Oltimer-

I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing something wrong. My workshop looks like a bomb went off, no matter how hard I try to keep it clean or neat. I look at your pictures and wonder how you do it. Your shop looks picture perfect.

Maybe I'm just the messy, excentric type. Either way, I hope we can get our masterpieces together when they are completed.

I am slowly sheeting the top of my horizontal stab. I have to do alittle more blending (sanding) to get the vert stab to a satifactory point.

I am curiously waiting for your picture of the sheeted fuselage around the cargo door. I'm looking at modifying my current design. I think my ramp attach points are too far outboard and might interfere with accurately sheeting that area.

Mike



oltimer -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/9/2007 7:20 PM)

Mike;

My shop isn't all that neat! Ijust don't show the junky areas. Anyway my cargo doors are not complete either. I'm still waitng for my actuator mechanism. I hope to have it next week some time. I too had problems with the projections at the end of the actuator arms and I had to shorten them because the stuck out too far. I haven't finished that area because of the actuator I'm waiting for. I'll post pictures when I have it finished.

Frank



UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/10/2007 8:55 AM)

Oltimer-

Thanks for the part numbers. I will get these on order early next week.

PIC#1- Today I received my Sig Wing joiner kit. It's not a bad setup, but I'm not sure if I will use it yet. It all depends on how the wing assembly goes.

PIC#2- I got my tail surfaces together and sanded to a basic shape. I still need to do some finishing on the leading edges and the blending between my vertical fin and the fuselage fin.

PIC#3- I have my rudder almost assembled. I still need to order that material that Oltimer used for the leading rounded edges.

I will be setting the rudder steering control rod and getting my hinges lined up tomorrow. Depending on the weather, I might just go flying all day. On the elevator connector rod, I used a Dubro steering control arm. I filed a knotch in the rod, then loctited the screw in place. I think this is much better than soldering a piece of brass to the rod(PIC#4). I'm not sure if I was using the wrong solder or what. But, I'm much happier with this setup. I think I have better long term durability.

Mike



schwatd -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/11/2007 5:39 PM)

Hey Guys,

Got some new storage shelves and am cleaning things up in the shop, have new galv. sheeting for the bench too. Pictures in a couple of days.



shoveldirt -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/11/2007 10:05 PM)

http://www.composite-resources.com/off-the-shelf/black-project/carbon-fiber-tubes/default.html

Oltimer-

Please look this information over and confirm/deny it is equivalent to the Aerospace Composite layout (apart from the thickness difference). I received a quote from them that was much cheaper than AC's. Almost half as much.

Thanks,
Travis



UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/11/2007 11:11 PM)

I think I have our next project. When we get our Herc fleet built, I suggest the following. It will take a few more sheets of balsa.

I dont have any info on this C-5 Galaxy. I just happen to stumble on this picture while surfing for C-130 parts.

I found these videos.
It lives- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvCqMSRWbpY
It dies- http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/videos/c130demise.wmv

Mike



LearnedInUk -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/11/2007 11:42 PM)

Any more info on that thing? it is huge!!!



schwatd -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/12/2007 1:52 AM)

The YouTube video is a 173 # plane. The Trenton video demise video is an ASM C-130 ARF



oltimer -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/12/2007 2:41 AM)

Travis;

GOOD FIND!! I wish I had seen this before I bought from Aerospace Composites. This material will work fine. Again good find. Mike you might want to take a look at this instead of the part number I gave you for the "big" tube.

Happy flying, Frank



shoveldirt -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/12/2007 5:42 AM)

Frank-

The only down side is their lead time. 2-3 weeks. Was the Aerospace tubing ready for immediate shipping? I may pay for the faster delivery.

Thanks again,
Travis



UkerDuker -> RE: Palmer 132" C-130 Build (6/12/2007 6:18 AM)

Travis, I will be ordering my carbon wing tube from that company.

PIC's #1,2,3- I am working on a couple things for my rudder. This pic shows the bearing the 5/32 rod fits through. It also shows the nylon control arm that will move the rudder. I like this setup much better than the brass control arms.

Oltimer-
Pic #4 shows where I am making my own fiberglass leading edge. Instead of buying material, I just thought it would be easier to make my own. THis way is cheaper.[:D] (pay no attention to my work bench)

Mike



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