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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/15/2009 12:57 PM   
Mike Emilio


 

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Status: offline 		OH MYYYY, , , that's a mess Sam.

Is the horizontal stab built as one piece, or are they seperate left and right panels?

Wow , , , what a terrible set back

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/15/2009 4:21 PM   
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Status: offline 		Sam,

I'm real sorry about the unfortunate accident to your C-130. I hope you won't become too discouraged and want to quit on it - you're very close to finishing the building stage. Get a new sharp X-acto and start some surgery. If you can cut away the sheething, you may find the main structural pieces can be lap spliced and repaired without starting all over on that horizontal stabilizer. The ribs look like most of them may be repaired by glueing back together. You already have a lot of experience in this kind of repairs - remember when you got this model.

Attached are a few photos of one of the inboard flaps on my LC-130. I used this flap to test out my build and installation methods.

Roger


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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/16/2009 12:36 AM   
oltimer


 

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This may be a blessing in disguise. If you have not already done it change the incidence in the stab to 0 degrees or even 1 or 2 degrees positive. You will be much happier if you do, otherwise plan to carry as much as 3/8" of DOWN elevetor to make it fly straight and level. This is based upon the first flight of Miron Propescu's C-130. Good luck on your rebuild.

Frank

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/16/2009 1:25 AM   
Props4ever


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks guys for the support at this hard time, i still can't believe how one couldn't see such a big model of Arrow hanging in front of it, i tried to see if i could simulate what happened on Friday but honestly, Arrow is heavy model and i couldn't...I just can't imagine what sort of angle with force it must have used to hit it and get it's tail end to actually fall on the ground!!....

Well i strengthen myself and took the x-acto knife and took off the top sheeting for the left stabilizer, it's pretty bad in there but on a positive side, i'm kinda glad it happened as now i can see how weak forward spar root joints were!, only glued to the sheeting between root rib and base of the fin!!, there is "NO SUPPORT" there for it with any former!!!!.....

It looks rebuild able but i rather open up right side now too and see if forward spars are joined to sheeting only or if there is some former support in there!....

Frank,

I see what you mean and it seems that now is the time to do that fix also, i suppose, i might as well do it so there will be no constant load/air pressure imposed on the elevator while in the flight...

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< Message edited by Props4ever -- 11/16/2009 3:02 AM >

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/16/2009 1:49 AM   
Props4ever


 

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Damnnn !!!, Picture uploading takes forever!!!

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/16/2009 1:56 AM   
Props4ever


 

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ORIGINAL: rogerswin

Sam,

Attached are a few photos of one of the inboard flaps on my LC-130. I used this flap to test out my build and installation methods.

Roger



Roger,

I'm not one who would give up so easily!!, yeah it's a big set back but i did found one area that wasen't supported worth crap in the internal structure ie: No solid/proper supported forward top and bottom spars!!. Plus as Frank mentioned, i do see that i can make newer stabilizer and mount it on positive +2 degrees incidence vs presently -2 degrees...so yeah some benefit did come out of it....but i'm still pissed on the whole incident.

Your flap hinge installation is excellent, can't wait to see how they will operate/function once fully installed in the wing structure..


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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/16/2009 3:53 AM   
Props4ever


 

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Status: offline 		This is what i mean when i stated above that both forward top and bottom spars are glued to sheeting but not any former!, except for lower spar as it merely touches the former...

I'm posting pictures of the plan and how i found on my model!, plus also notice severe lack of glue to properly and securely join skin sheeting to internal structure i e: Ribs and spars!!

Plans are drawn as right lower half....

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< Message edited by Props4ever -- 11/16/2009 5:37 AM >

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/16/2009 2:30 PM   
ergocentric



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Props4ever
This is what i mean when i stated above that both forward top and bottom spars are glued to sheeting but not any former!, except for lower spar as it merely touches the former...

i do see that i can make newer stabilizer and mount it on positive +2 degrees incidence vs presently -2 degrees...so yeah some benefit did come out of it....but

I'm not even sure how i can get the stabilizer out of the fuselage itself with out taking off the fin at this point!, now this is another thing i have to fix on this model that i didn't have to!


Will it be easier to remove if most of the spars aren't attached?

Perhaps your c130 stab would not have broken if it had a proper attachment point on the spar. (I'm assuming the arrow didn't break as you didn't mention it)

Did you miss this in your initial inspection? It's always exciting to get a 'new' used aircraft, but I've learned my lesson by buying other peoples problems too often.
(I've got a Hots with no wing spar, it was given to me when I bought some other plane)

At least you got it for a good price and you enjoy repairing models, and time to start locking the door.
You are making good progress on this, interesting reading.

Eric.

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/16/2009 3:54 PM   
Mike Emilio


 

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Status: offline 		Make a whole new HStab as one piece. Add an additional full length mid-spar to pick up F29. The tailing edge spar is also full length from tip-to-tip.
Then slip the whole thing into position, gluing the mid-spar to F29.

You won't need to worry about dried out glue joints.


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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/16/2009 4:20 PM   
Mike Emilio


 

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Status: offline 		Even better, , ,

Make a new HStab and put the whole darn thing on maybe a 3/8" or 1/2" wing tube.
It will make it easier to transport.

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/16/2009 7:34 PM   
Props4ever


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Mike,

How r things going in Sault St Marie...As always you have great suggestions for giant scale models and both of these presented suggestions are pretty good also. Dave aka dmcconneyherc on here also have suggested very good suggestion with both stabs as removable wing panels so i am considering all options at this time. With my father's neck surgery is on coming Wednesday, i will not be doing any modeling for atleast week n half, so that will help ease off the frustration and anger from this incident. Hopefully it will be a fresh re-start for me then on this project once again...

Eric,

Arrow is fine, it's one very very solid airframe!.
You are right, it's hit n miss when buying others already started projects, i am glad i bought this model, even with it's errors and misses apart from this incident it's all good. I am happy to be part of great Palmer C130 madness gang on here..

Guys Shuttle Atlantis is in orbit as i write this traveling at 5000 MPH!!!, about to separate from its main fuel booster heading straight International space station with crew of six astronauts on board...


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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/18/2009 5:26 AM   
Props4ever


 

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Status: offline 		Roger,

How far are you on installing hinges on the flaps and then flaps on the wings?.

Model update:

Some friends have convinced me to initially do my C130 in PAF's special scheme that took part in RAIT airshow in UK post 2005's major earthquake in Pakistan. This is, ship number "64144" with beautifully painted tail portraying relief efforts to this date....

My model will be done with all hard points and all attachment points built into the structure, this way whenever i want to do another livery, variant scheme of any other air force of the world, i will be able to do it by repainting this model and adding extra's on it if needed....

I am almost certain newer stabilizer with be built as removable wing panels for easy transportation without use of wing tube but newer center spar will be added!. This will be built up structure that will be bolted to newer thicker root ribs made from 1/4" aircraft grade plywood with blind nuts...

After talking to few guys over the time, it's apparent that actual JATO variant is not possible due to heavy weights of these models completed!, so therefore using actual Estees model rocket propulsion units is now out of question even for flying models on private fields.

Sam








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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/18/2009 1:10 PM   
Mike Emilio


 

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ORIGINAL: Props4ever

I am almost certain newer stabilizer with be built as removable wing panels for easy transportation without use of wing tube but newer center spar will be added!. This will be built up structure that will be bolted to newer thicker root ribs made from 1/4'' aircraft grade plywood with blind nuts...

Sam

The wing tube is by far much easier. But not aluminum. Aluminum would be too heavy in the tail.
How about 3/8" dia solid G10.
I just bought 6 feet of it. Had to order it in from the good ol' US of A.
It's pricy, but I could sell you some.

I won't be back home untill the weekend.



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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/19/2009 12:01 AM   
rogerswin



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I'm attaching some photos showing my inboard flap installation. I'm missing the top sheeting that lays out over the flaps (as indicated on the "wing rib templates", sht. 5 of the drawings). I'm going to put that on after all the flaps are installed and tested. I took photos at 10 deg., 20 deg., and 32 deg. (full) flap positions. Also shown are a couple of photos showing full flap as seen from the rear. These Robart flap hinges are a little tricky to install, but now that I've done one, the rest will be easy.

Roger


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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/20/2009 9:13 PM   
Props4ever


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Roger,

Thanks for posting these detailed pictures my friend, yup now i can comfortably place order for these hinges, they sure don't come out all the way but none the less do come out a bit and there rotation is great and pretty scale if not 100% full scale......


Update on my Father's condition:

My father is doing great after his major neck surgery, yesterday he started to move and raise his both legs, left arm and hand plus wiggle his fingers and toes also!!!, he haven't moved his legs and arm for many months now until yesterday!. Plus today his physio also started and he is doing good with physio also. This is long journey once his rehab starts, but hopefully with in two months he should be walking hand in hand with us all that is if all goes smooth....


Mike:

Call me when you are back home, i will definitely buy 2' feet of G10 tube from you, i suppose wing tube will add as extra security to the newer Stabilizer structure...

< Message edited by Props4ever -- 11/20/2009 10:16 PM >

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/20/2009 9:40 PM   
Mike Emilio


 

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ORIGINAL: Props4ever

Mike:
Call me when you are back home, i will definitely buy 2' feet of G10 tube from you, i suppose wing tube will add as extra security to the newer Stabilizer structure...

It's not tube, , , it's solid 3/8" diameter.
6 foot length is the minimum buy.
I only need maybe 3 1/2 feet, , , , so there should be 2 feet left over easy.
I make my own custon 3/8 socket for it.

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/21/2009 12:53 AM   
Props4ever


 

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Mother monster of all C130 models around with wingspan of 20'!!!

Here are some specs i found on it on another thread!

It was built in 1993
Wingspan: 20ft. 4in.
Weight: 187# ( I guess we don't build heavy after all!)
Engines: Titan 38's
Props: 20 x 10
Radio: JR w/14 servos.

I suppose we N.American modelers can just see and drool over this one as it falls in experimental aircraft category!!


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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/21/2009 3:17 AM   
Props4ever


 

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Check this out....



Actually anyone who wants to use Robart Fowler Flap hinges can see this video before there application as these could be used on different airplanes also!. This video is from a fellow who is scratch building 1/6th scale A-6 "Intruder"....

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/21/2009 3:29 PM   
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Interesting 3D of a working Robart, Fowler flap mechanism. The only thing that may be misleading is that the animation shows the wrong half in motion. The nylon part with the glue holes is attached inside the wing between the ribs. The metal part (shaped to fit inside the flap) is the moving part.

Roger


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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/21/2009 6:45 PM   
Props4ever


 

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ORIGINAL: rogerswin

Sam,

Interesting 3D of a working Robart, Fowler flap mechanism. The only thing that may be misleading is that the animation shows the wrong half in motion. The nylon part with the glue holes is attached inside the wing between the ribs. The metal part (shaped to fit inside the flap) is the moving part.

Roger



Yeah i also noticed that but again, it does show the function of the hinge to give users good idea as to how it functions...


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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/21/2009 6:54 PM   
Olsen



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Sam that was a nasty accident vith your C-130 but keep up the good work it looks as if it is coming along very nice. I have mine done in the wood except for the nacelles I have been putting in some plastic tubes in the wings for the wiring one set for the radio and one set for the lights.
It was a very nice day here in Denmark today so my wife and I took the C-130 out to take some photos it is a BIG model but mine weights 6,4 kg. (that is about 14 lbs) in pure wood and I think it is okay.


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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/22/2009 2:31 AM   
Props4ever


 

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Status: offline 		Another Palmer C130 i found, I wonder why it didn't lifted off, does seems as not enough power was available for it...



< Message edited by Props4ever -- 11/22/2009 5:25 AM >

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/22/2009 5:28 AM   
Props4ever


 

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ORIGINAL: Olsen

Hello

Sam that was a nasty accident vith your C-130 but keep up the good work it looks as if it is coming along very nice. I have mine done in the wood except for the nacelles I have been putting in some plastic tubes in the wings for the wiring one set for the radio and one set for the lights.
It was a very nice day here in Denmark today so my wife and I took the C-130 out to take some photos it is a BIG model but mine weights 6,4 kg. (that is about 14 lbs) in pure wood and I think it is okay.




Yes Olsen, it wasen't good at all!. I am still not fully ready to work on it as it's still bothering me. On the other hand WOW is all i can at this time, you are super fast builder!!. Your bird is looking amazing...now what type of hinges did you used on the flaps?

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/22/2009 11:21 AM   
Props4ever


 

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Status: offline 		Here is another successful video of same C130 in above post, this time it actually flew and did it's maiden flight!...

[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/user/sirokuma4690dr#p/a/u/1/wDwIoOE6dkg [/youtube]

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RE: Palmer 132 - 11/22/2009 6:44 PM   
Olsen



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Nice videos you have found Sam it helps to motivate the build of this bird. I have made my own Robart look a like flaphinges I found it on RC-Groups there was a guy who had done it so I tried it out and so far it seems to work,there are some small fiber tubes running in the track in the wood (you could also use brass tubes) it took some time to make but I am happy with the result. The plywood I used are with very many layers so it does not warp.

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