RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet?  
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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/1/2005 9:24:51 PM   
Mike James



Posts: 2423
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, I'm aware that spoilers kill lift. The "high lift devices" statement simply refers to an optional "package" of lift-related enhancements that the airplane can be flown with.

And these are leading edge flaps, not slats. Slats are built, and function differently. The images from the sim don't accurately model them, but they're the type found on the F-16, F-18, F-22, and F-35.

My web site is updated almost daily. Latest updates were about 8 hours ago.


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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/1/2005 9:54:32 PM   
Strykaas



Posts: 4036
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Paris, FRANCE
Status: online 		Ooopps, Babel Tower stroke again !! I thought slats was the english for 'becs' which means, in french, 'leading edge located devices helping Cz increase'. There is no "LE flaps" equivalent in french (this makes me remember that Shakespear's language has 5 times the number of words French language has ). I now have understood the difference in english between slats and LE flaps (for those interested, check http://142.26.194.131/aerodynamics1/controls/Page5.html ).
Thx.
I'm quite impressed by the level of detail you put into your creations, especially the XPlane simulation ! that's great !

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/1/2005 10:07:26 PM   
Mike James



Posts: 2423
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		Thank you. These are sometimes called "maneuvering flaps", too, by the way.

The X-Plane simulation in this case was actually done long after the design was finalized, by doing the math "the old fashioned way". So, it was gratifying to see the performance predicted shown in the simulation. I would never "design" a plane in X-Plane, but on a couple of other projects, the results have been close enough for me to get a fair idea of the flying qualities before finishing the prototypes.

And, it's fun! At this stage in the design, after 7 million hours of sanding, it's nice to just take a break and go fly the plane.

I just found out that our epoxy shipped today from Michigan, and should be arriving here in Charlotte in a couple of days, so I can finish the wing molds and build the prototype. Can't wait.


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Mike James
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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/1/2005 10:09:27 PM   
kennyandannie



Posts: 643
Joined: 11/13/2002
From: Del Rio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

Long time!! Are the leading edge flaps, that are on your simulation, hinged at the front of the flap? I can't tell from the pics.

I'm following very closely, and waiting patiently, well, almost patiently.

See ya,

Ken

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/1/2005 10:14:12 PM   
Mike James



Posts: 2423
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		The simulation images are just eye candy, so the leading edge flaps are hinged more like the leading edge flaps on an airliner. On the flying version we're building, they'll be hinged at the rear of the leading edge flap, at the bottom, as they are on the F/A-22. Here's an image, showing the geometry.

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< Message edited by Mike James -- 2/1/2005 10:16:34 PM >


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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/1/2005 10:53:01 PM   
kennyandannie



Posts: 643
Joined: 11/13/2002
From: Del Rio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Got it, thanks Mike.

Ken

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/2/2005 1:20:28 AM   
Rudeboy



Posts: 3255
Joined: 12/9/2002
From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		"Slats" are used to add energy to the upper boundary layer...

They are totally different from a "droopable nose" as used on modern fighter planes. These devices like used on the F-16 and F-18 are there for one purpose: to change the camber of the wing.

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/2/2005 12:21:11 PM   
Strykaas



Posts: 4036
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Paris, FRANCE
Status: online
quote:

add energy


Actually, the slot created by slats produces an accelerated airflow (thanks to Bernoulli effect) that makes stall happen at slower airspeeds (boundary layer gains speed=energy).

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/2/2005 1:37:42 PM   
ewstap


 

Posts: 20
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Kannapolis, NC, USA
Status: offline 		It appears that this project is getting too complex to appeal to the average modeler. The general rule of thumb is to keep it simple and lightweight. The extra servos and hardware necessary to implement these features, would seem to push the weight up to a point where "Unlimited" power/thrustwill be necessary to achieve good performance. Turbine power is what you will need to fly this plane. Oh! wait a minute! This is a "Pusher Prop" where the efficiency of the propulsion system is compromised by the blanking effect the flying surfaces will have on the propeller. This thing needs to be light weight and friendly handling to achieve a "HIT", or it will end up being a beautiful, sexy, fast flying rock. Additional controll surfaces will also make it much harder to trim and will ensure there are fewer successful first flights. I will be one of the first to purchase this kit but only if it is worth the money and effort. If it is to be a "Hanger Queen", I will pass. This is truly a great effort by Mike, I just hope it stays a "HIT".

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/2/2005 5:44:38 PM   
Rudeboy



Posts: 3255
Joined: 12/9/2002
From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		I understand that the standard production models will not have all these high lift devices... just a simple wing with flaps and ailerons.

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/2/2005 6:19:19 PM   
Mike James



Posts: 2423
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		This project can be as simple as you like. If you read what I've posted here, or the article on my site, you'll find that our intention has always been to test it in real life, just as in the simulation. The simplest version would be (like many turbine-powered models) taileron only. Those that want to can add rudder, ailerons, flaps, leading edge flaps, (not "slats" ) etc.. From day one, (or "page one", on my web site) the goal has been to provide a simple airplane, but with the option of adding high-lift "gadgets" for those who are so inclined. Even the retracts are optional, although we think it would be silly to have such a model with fixed gear hanging out of it.

"Additional control surfaces will make it much harder to trim?" If you're referring to the optional leading edge flaps, they would be coupled to the trailing edge flaps mechanically. Everything is just standard modeling stuff. Although not a beginner's model, there's nothing really complex about it, since we're molding and aligning everything in production.

The only control surfaces in front of the pusher prop are the rudders, by the way.


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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/2/2005 8:40:02 PM   
ewstap


 

Posts: 20
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Kannapolis, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Only playing "Devils Advocate" Mike. I'm really looking forward to seeing this plane fly. I've monitored the thread since day one and have been very impressed with the outcome so far. Hopeing it flys as good as it looks. At which of the Charlotte area fields do you normally fly? I have been to most of the area fields so we must have crossed paths at one time or another. Keep up the good work!

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/2/2005 10:27:51 PM   
Mike James



Posts: 2423
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		ewstap,

No problem, and thank you... Just answering your issues.

By the way, the max target weight we've predicted is for the "Deluxe" version as above with all the gadgets, including 11 serovs. (!) ... around 10 pounds, giving a wing loading of 25 oz./sq. ft. Simpler versions will obviously be lighter, so I'm optimistic. Test parts we've made have all been slightly below are weight estimates, so there may be more good news ahead. We won't know for sure, of course, until we have a completley assembled prototype sitting on the scale, but we aren't spooked yet.

I'm new to Charlotte, (August) and have spent virtually 99% of that time in the shop. The only flying field I've been to in the area is Triple Tree, which is where we intend to make the test flights. We'll be shooting both still images and video of the test flights, and we'll post the results on the web site, and let you know here, too. I am extremely excited to be this close... Can't wait to get these flying!

Thanks to everyone for your interest and support so far. I hope you all turn out to be happy customers, later on. We're a small team, and are doing are best to compete with the quality of the "big boys". Keep your fingers crossed for us.


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Mike James
RC Design and Building - www.nextcraft.com

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/5/2005 3:33:07 AM   
Mike James



Posts: 2423
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		Our epoxy arrived, and I've just finished the second halves of the wing molds. That's it for the prototype molds. Next step is molding and assembly of the prototype, and on to the test flights. (finally!)
(Latest updates are at http://www.nextcraft.com/j47_sportjet10.html )

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RE: Who wants a scale pusher prop jet? - 2/5/2005 6:48:09 AM   
HaveBlue



Posts: 852
Joined: 1/3/2005
From: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		well its f