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RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/11/2007 12:31:55 PM   
thesmo


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 10/22/2003
From: North Bay, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Does anyone have a link to the nexus plans page that use to be out there?

(in reply to BobGeezer)
       Post #: 26

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/11/2007 12:52:26 PM   
bigchap


 

Posts: 1040
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: frimley,surrey., UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		i've wanted a handley page hastings for a long time,seeing as the hastings used the halifax wing it may be time to start,are those foam wings?if so where did you get them from?

(in reply to BobGeezer)
       Post #: 27

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/11/2007 4:48:48 PM   
Steiny


 

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: Sherwood Park, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Thesmo,
I bought my plans from Bob Hollman down in the California, his website is www.bhplans.com. I do not believe he has the Nexus plans listed on his web site but he certainly does have them, send him an e-mail and I'm sure he will help you out.

Bigchap,
I made my wings out of foam because I'm lazy but the plans do call for a built up structure, perhaps BobGeezer can help you out in the UK finding someone to cut them for you.

Cheers,

Mark

(in reply to thesmo)
       Post #: 28

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/11/2007 5:42:41 PM   
bigchap


 

Posts: 1040
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: frimley,surrey., UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		i hate cutting ribs so if anyone can suggest a good cutter in the u.k. i would be a happy bunny.

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       Post #: 29

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/20/2007 1:31:05 AM   
BobGeezer


 

Posts: 35
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: SouthamptonHampshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi bigchap,

These guys http://www.myhobbystore.com/ are where it's all happening. Perhaps Amanda can put you in touch with their parts cutting people? I expect they'll need "a run" of parts to make it cost-efficient. Do be in touch if you're going to embark on one as I'd be interested, so long as the price is reasonable. I know you'll only be doing the wing from the Halifax, but that's a large percentage, especially if the nacelles are the same as on the Hastings.

All,

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments - particularly wellss. I see there's more to aerofoil design than simple rules. Each profile has many advantages and disadvantages. I think the original plan wing is a good one on reflection. Not only is it authentic, but low drag and invertible. Good in a model to help rolls, showing off, etc. :-) I've found a resource for aerofoil profiles at http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads.html. Perhaps this will help others?

Mark,

Thanks for the picture Mark, you're certainly making a thorough job of that airframe. No wonder you consider yourself a slow buildier... the hare and the tortoise and all that...! I know the 52s are going to way overpower the aeroplane. Many reasons for the choice. Price, reliability (there are four to keep running) and the ability to fly way above scale if wanted.

Have fun flying all.


< Message edited by BobGeezer -- 8/20/2007 3:24:20 PM >

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       Post #: 30

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/23/2007 10:45:00 AM   
BobGeezer


 

Posts: 35
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: SouthamptonHampshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Mark,

Have you got a build target weight? I'm trying to calculate all sorts of things from the full size specifications and I'm getting some sense and some worries!

For example, the real aeroplane's power-to-weight ratio comes out between 0.08 and 0.125 hp/lb which makes sense for a model too. With 4 x OS 52 FS, I'll be around the 4hp mark - and with a guess weight of around 10-12lb all up I was figuring on around 0.3 hp/lb which at half throttle would give me scale flight - but with plenty of room for silliness above that. My boomerang climbs out at up to 50 degrees, but I want a little more than that - even with this big bird.

The real aeroplane's wing loading is however 0.28-0.35 lb/sq" which sounds big. However weight comes down as the "third power" of scale whereas wing area comes down as the square, so for a 1/16th scale airframe, I expect the wing loading to reduce more-or-less linearly with scale. So that brings out the loading as 0.022 lb/sq". That's better, but I've been comparing it with wing loading on some ARTF sites and they're quoting 0.01 or thereabouts. However, I'm not sure if these are dry airframe or with engines and servos, pack, etc.

Now if the loading for a responsive model has to be 0.01, this places the (even dry) build weight of the Halifax at 7lb. This sounds rather light for a 79" span airframe - and scary for this first-time builder...

Has anyone some ideas / normal figures / help with this to calculate an appropriate build weight please?

Regards,
Bob


< Message edited by BobGeezer -- 8/23/2007 11:00:20 AM >

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       Post #: 31

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/23/2007 8:40:58 PM   
Steiny


 

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: Sherwood Park, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hello Bob,
I'm pretty sure when trying to predict the performance of a model that you cannot take things like the real wing loading and divide by 16. I think lift is a function of air displaced and therefore a function of the wing volume (at least I think I read that somewhere). I'm sure there are some aeronautical engineers out there that could clarify it for us.

For trainers and sport planes I like to see wing loadings around 25 oz/square foot, warbirds always seem to be in 40 oz/square foot range and are also typically larger planes (>72" wingspan). For whatever reason larger planes seem to fly a whole lot better despite the higher wing loading. Having said that I'm sure there will be a host of different responses both agreeing and disagreeing.

I have the same target weight as you with it being in the 10-12lb range (hopefully 10lbs), I believe the wing area is around 800 square inches so at 12 pounds that gives a wing loading of about 35 oz/square foot and at 10lbs it is about 29 oz/square foot. I do not believe this to be too much for a plane with a wing span of 79", will it fly like an extra? Probably not, but it's a bomber not a trainer.

My other scale planes are around 35-38 oz/square foot or more and they fly just fine, however none of them are floaters and all require use of the throttle on landing. At the end of the day I'm not at all worried about how this plane will fly but I do not expect it to fly like a TOC airplane. I will be using 4 x OSFS30's and it will have lots of power, your 52's should give you unlimited performance as long as you can handle it.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Mark

(in reply to BobGeezer)
       Post #: 32

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/24/2007 5:48:25 AM   
wellss


 

Posts: 66
Joined: 6/14/2002
From: St. Catharines, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I'm flying a 28 lbs B-24 with 4 OS 52 FS. It has a wing loading of 62 oz / sq ft. It flies nice enough though...with high lift, high aspect wing and huge fowler flaps.

It cruises at 1/2 throttle. I'm sure it could maintain height on 2 engines, there's a lot of propwash over the wing that really adds lift for takeoff.

(in reply to Steiny)
       Post #: 33

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/24/2007 3:37:43 PM   
BobGeezer


 

Posts: 35
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: SouthamptonHampshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		That helps Chaps,

I am coming to the realization that I am just not going to get away with it after all. The OS 30 FS sounds a lot more reasonable I must admit Mark. Thanks for the info wellss - Your Liberator is probably quite handy, but has twice the wing area of the HPH, so mine would be even more extreme and weighed-down.

When my model shop guy steered me towards .50 FS engines, we were discussing a twin - a mossie. Has anyone any concerns about reliability of .30 FS engines? Perhaps it's just a myth they don't run so well. What I really don't want to do is build this plane and spend hours down at the field tinkering with each engine coaxing them into life for half my flying time. I also have only my boomerang for running in. (I can't run in at home - too many neighbours, one with a new baby.) However, if I'm gentle and put a finer pitch prop on there, I'm sure the 30 would fly the boomerang - I just mustn't forget and try to fly it like the Irvine...!

However, I now take the point that an over-heavy plane is going to be hard to handle - and if my experience had included some "heavy" planes already, I'd know what I was in for. As I'm pretty new to all this it would be a bit of a disaster to ditch the thing on its maiden flight...

So, OS .30 FS it is. I think I'll follow your experience and judgement there. They only weigh 9.8 oz each, so that's reduced the weight to 40oz from 57oz - a saving of 1lb. It doesn't sound an awful lot compared with the power loss. I take the point that the model would have less range (shorter flying time) given like-for-like throttle positions, but then I wouldn't always be flying the 50s flat out... Hmmm.. I expect the weight will matter as I'll be able to fly much slower taking off and landing.

Ho hum. I wish I had the luxury of being able to afford all eight engines and trying both sets out. I see the OS 30 FS is £108-£115 and the 50 is £140-£152 too, so bang goes the "price" reason. The 52s I saw must hve been on offer before the new range came out. I'll be avoiding spending an extra £120 (only!! £430 glub) and some extra fuel no doubt.

Okay, I'm convinced :-) Thanks for all your help.
Any more news/pics on the build Mark?

Regards,
Rob


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       Post #: 34

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/24/2007 4:19:32 PM   
Steiny


 

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: Sherwood Park, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hello Bob,
I have been test running my OSFS30's 25 degrees off inverted in a Twinstar to break them in and test out the orientation. I will admit the air bleed carbs do tend to be a bit touchy around setting up the idle. I have concluded that to run the engines in this orientation I will install a on board glow driver, this should help the idle situation. I am doing the inverted thing as I am building the MK.II with Merlins versus the MK.III with the Hercules. If I was doing the MK.III I would probably mount the engines upright or at 90 degrees to vertical which may help with the idle situation.

I am running Master Airscrew 9 x 6 props a little over 10,000 RPM with 15% Nitro XP Syn Fuel, reliable idle seems to be around 3800 RPM.

No new pics yet, done all the sanding and hope to get panel lines on it this weekend (no time during the week) but that is all the detailing I am planning on due to weight concerns. Also with this being a relatively small plane for a bomber I think too much detailing just won't look right, I'll save the super detailing for the 100"+ version to be built in the future.

I'll hopefully post some pictures of the panel lines next week.

Cheers,

Mark

(in reply to BobGeezer)
       Post #: 35

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 8/26/2007 9:22:08 PM   
Steiny


 

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: Sherwood Park, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hello Bob,
Only got the panel line tape on this weekend, no paint.

Only if the weekends were 5 days long and the work week 2 I would be done in no time.

Cheers,

Mark


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       Post #: 36

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 9/2/2007 6:25:22 PM   
Steiny


 

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: Sherwood Park, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hello again Bob,
Here's the panel lines after the liberal application of high build primer over the panel line tape. The tape will be removed and then everything buffed very gently to remove the overspray and leave a nice smooth finish for the application of the sealing primer.
I will be concentrating on the moulds for the next month or so.

How's your Halifax project coming along?

Cheers,

Mark


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       Post #: 37

RE: Handley Page Halifax - Nexus Plans - 9/9/2007 8:59:12 PM   
BobGeezer


 

Posts: 35
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: SouthamptonHampshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Mark,

Good to see your level of detail. It gives me something to aim at. I'm still in the planning stages. I think I've chosen my engines (Saito Fa-30S silver), but I'm going to have concealment problems with doing the Bristol Hercules cowlings. For scale, the prop shaft must be central. I'm eying up a 9x6 3-blade from Graupner which will just about run and it's scale proportions (well 9.75" really) In the RR Merlin configuration, the engine can be inverted to use up vertical cowling space. I haven't that luxury. I think I'll do about 90 degrees, but sticking way out! I can't find any 4-strokes (4-cycle) smaller than 30 these days so they will be protruding nearly half way I think.

I've been trying to get my second hand 2-stroke spitfire up and running - needing re-plumbing, tinkering with, etc. It flew this morning, but not at my hands and conked out in the first loop my local expert put it into. He glided it down nicely (then I reminded him to lower the undercarriage!!) and he landed it softly.

I seem not to get too much building time in the week with a job, wife and two daughters coming up to teens soon! It's not going to be as authentically scale as it should be - but so long as it's the right shape in the air, I'll be happy. Talking of which, I see the nacelles on the plan are clustered very near the fuselage. The real aeroplane has them more spread out. Did you move them out? I'm wondering what the deal is there? In the plan, both engines, rather than just the inner ones are vectoring thrust over the tail fins. Also I suppose it helps with yaw if an engine stops. I should probably just follow the plan... but I have a part of me saying "build it as the original" for authenticity...

I'll get building proper once the cold sets in I expect. I'm not going to produce half as polished an article as you have there. I will do the balsa and then decide on glass/film/tissue as a strengthening skin, apply a lick of paint, some custom transfers/decals and leave it at that. This is going to be essential if I'm going to get it in the air any time prior to the next century.... After it's up and flying, I may try to spend some time increasing the level of "static display" detail.

Regards,
Bob

< Message edited by BobGeezer -- 9/10/2007 4:26:48 PM >

_____________________________

Where does all that time go...?

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