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SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 1:41:06 AM   
Sandbag Special



Posts: 84
Joined: 12/9/2003
From: Jupiter, FL, USA
Status: offline
This is a document composed by my father specifically addressing SEMPRA Members.

Matt

FELLOW RACERS:

I am talking to SEMPRA members only!

In the late 60's I was one of the pylon racers that started FMPRA which was later changed to SEMPRA. I raced until 1980. I served 3 years as FMPRA sec/treas. In 2004 I rejoined SEMPRA along with my son Matthew. We have been racing SEMPRA ever since.
I hate politics, and standing on a soap box is the last thing I want to do. I want to make sure each of you knows about what I feel could be the end of SEMPRA as we know it.
Several years ago, SEMPRA started racing the 424 class with a good set of easy to enforce rules. The 424 racing has done for SEMPRA exactly what it was designed to do. It provides SEMPRA with a class of racing for the sport pilot who wants a cheap, no hassle event. For less than $200, you can buy an ARF and a Thunder Tiger 40, put your sport radio in it and be competitive. The SEMPRA rules have kept 424 race winning times in the low 1:50's to the high 1:40's with fast time usually in the low 1:40's. This is 30 seconds slower than the average 428 race winning time. Perfect for a sport class. 424 as it was designed to, also provides an event where a serious racer can gain the right kind of experience necessary to compete in 428 class. Today, more than half of SEMPRA 428 pilots started as 424 pilots!
Now let me tell you what I am upset about!
Both AMA and NMPRA have made changes to their 424 rules. Lets start with AMA. AMA has done away with the 16,500 RPM max we use. This will now open the door for the after market piston and sleeve, the new ceramic bearings and the reworked cylinder head which will use the stock Thunder Tiger head shim. Using these parts in the Pro 40 will turn the 9/6 APC close to 19000 RPM. The piston and sleeve is guaranteed 800 to 1000 RPM increase, alone. Plan on the total cost of these parts, adding $200 plus, to the cost of each engine, if you install them yourself! Yes, these parts are illegal! The only way to police the use of these parts will be an engine teardown. They will not be painted orange. What contest director needs the added responsibility of tearing down all the 424 engines after or before a race? AMA also changed the minimum Q-500 weight to 3 3/4 lbs. Who knows why?
Now on to NMPRA. They are now allowing 428 pilots to enter any 424 event. As you know, SEMPRA rules do not allow this! What possible good would a 424 regulars ego receive by being lapped 2 or more times by a 428 racer? Someone with the talent of say...Randy Bridge, could easily do this. (Randy, I only used your name because you are the best.)
Winning a 424 race will become impossible for any regulars. NMPRA will also allow a 424 racer to compete in three 428 races per season, to see if he likes it. How many 424 racers have an extra $2000 to put together a couple 428 Q-500's, that he plans to race in a maximum of 3 events? Our SEMPRA rules are simple, enforceable, well thought out and proven successful.
The Mulberry race is the start of our 2007 season. I urge you to direct Tom and Vern to leave SEMPRA rules unchanged for the 2007 season. If a group wants to put on a SEMPRA race and give SEMPRA points, they need to use and enforce SEMPRA rules. I support new rules that promote and make racing better. AMA and NMPRA 2007 changes certainly are not good for SEMPRA! We could easily wind up killing 428 racing as they did several years ago in New England, when they screwed around with their 424 racing rules. Today, 2 classes of 424 is all they race.

Let's Race!

Jack Fehling


_____________________________

Matthew Fehling
Fly Fast Turn Left!
       Post #: 1

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 2:49:36 AM   
dwbebens


 

Posts: 200
Joined: 4/25/2005
From: Dickson, TN, USA
Status: offline
In reference to this same letter that Jack Fehling was passing-out at the Mulberry 500 race this last Weekend concerning SEMPRA 424 racing rules:


I agree almost completely with everything that Jack said in his letter. The only thing I’m neutral on is the weight limit change in 424 and 428. There has been a huge amount of discussion on the racing forums about the weight change issue and I won’t go into it again. I really don’t think this change will affect anything much.

I, like Jack, have been racing a long time. I started in 1975 and raced Q-15, the original Spickler Quickee 500 with the K&B 40 engine, ½ A, F-1, and Sport Pylon. I have seen the detrimental effects that “inch-worming” the rules can have on a racing class. In very short order, the event no longer resembles its original form. It no longer meets the needs of the people for whom it was intended. It no longer addresses and solves the original problems for which it was created. What actually happens is that the class then bumps into and encroaches onto the next higher class, creating basically a duplication of classes. This results in the eventual extinction of one of those classes (generally the original higher class) and the abandonment of the original lower class. This leaves two groups out in the cold. The original lower class pilots, and the higher class pilots that became duplicated.

Examples:

- Goodyear --> F-1 --> EXTINCTION

- Q-15 --> stock non-schnuerl 15 engine and stock prop --> Rossi engine at $60 & stock prop --> Rossi & Cox engines at $60 any prop --> any engine and prop at any price --> EXTINCTION --> Q-40

- The original “Spickler” Quickee-500 with the K&B 40 engine --> all kinds of engines and all kinds of planes --> pylon engines and modified props --> Animal Quickee --> thus aiding in the extinction of F-1 --> 428

- And possibly; 424 --> 428 clone!


A class of racing in which the rules are allowed to be “inch-wormed” so that a state of escalating “speed creep” develops, always evolves into yet another expensive, high-end, high-maintenance, beginner excluding class for the top echelon of very skillful pilots who will do and spend anything to compete at the highest level. I want you to understand that I have absolutely no problem with those who chose to compete at that high level. I admire them and aspire to someday be in that class. But, please, leave 424 alone. Entry level pilots, novices, and many others need and want what 424 offers. There are already two very fast racing classes that already meet the needs of the very best racers.

Now we have 424 for the entry level people and novices, 428 for the go-fast people, and 422 for the really go-fast people. Each of these classes was created and designed to address and solve various problems within the pylon community. Each of these classes was created to meet the needs of certain people. It is my opinion that SEMPRA 424 should stay as it is. Please don’t change it.

Doug Bebensee

dwbebens@hotmail.com

(in reply to Sandbag Special)
       Post #: 2

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 12:17:12 PM   
luv to race


 

Posts: 465
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: Liquored, FL,
Status: offline
Losing that 16,500 rule was not a good thing. I never saw anyone adhere to that rule until I moved to Florida, at which time I witnessed Freeman Jr. taching motors in the mornings. And it worked... my first race out here, Jr. noticed an airplane in 424 going pretty damn good... so he stopped the pilot/caller on the way back to the pits...made them fire it up... and yes sir...it turned over 17,500... so that meant, those two went back to the pits after the morning tach inspection process and either changed to the cheater motor cheater motor or broke the rules in some other way. Either way, by not having that 16,500 rule in place.. you open the door for all kinds of issues. After market engine parts, basically bringing the pocket book into play a bit more. NOT GOOD.... Stock is Stock, what part of that don't we understand...geez.

As far as "proven" 428 pilots. What the hell you thinking?? You don't belong in 424... unless...and that's a case by case unless.... a guy should be permitted to participate in 424 if he falls on hard times and can't afford the 428 stuff anymore. Or maybe the event is a 424 only event.. in which cases I think it would be okay. But bouncing back and forth between those classes is stupid..!

The new weight rule... that's all smoke and mirrors. In NO WAY will that help the hobby/sport.

Almost forgot... Marcus Blanchard is having a big race up in South Carolina, November 4-5... I think there is a BBQ on Saturday evening at the field, that would be a perfect time to have a big group discussion.


Randy Bridge
Team USA F3D

< Message edited by luv to race -- 10/10/2006 12:23:55 PM >

(in reply to dwbebens)
       Post #: 3

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 1:32:53 PM   
kane


 

Posts: 255
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Arlington Heights, IL, USA
Status: offline
This is an interesting interpretation of the cause and affect of racing. Jack since you have been around pylon for a long time you can surely understand that events come and go, and NOT one single action has a direct affect on the end result. 422 did not kill formula one. FORMULA ONE killed itself! Rule changes did not kill QM15, small airplanes, lack of participation and effort killed QM15. Rule changes are set into motion for many different reasons. Everyone can speculate why and how. Only the proposer knows the true impetus, the rest of the population can only speculate, disagree, agree and piss and moan about it. This voice and opposition is what keeps us going.

As far as rules... The 16,500 rule is gone from the AMA rulebook event 424. Why? I submitted a proposal, because:

1. it was difficult to enforce.
2. it was difficult to police.
3. Not everyone around the country was using the rule, in fact a majority were not.

There is nothing in the rules that prevents SEMPRA or any other organization from enforcing this rule. The AMA rules are a set of guidelines. If the regional organizers wish to keep track of their own set of rules so be it. Just remember what is good for you guys in Florida, is not good for the guys in other parts of the country. Therefore, I don't think it is fair to attack the AMA or the NMPRA for something that your local community can control. Jack your post started out on the right foot but digressed. You should have not included the AMA and NMPRA in your complaint. The AMA rule making body consists of 11 individuals each representing a different region of the US. In order for a rule to be accepted it needs 6 votes. That means that 6 regions of the US must agree. If one disagrees it is in the minority and majority wins. Therefore, any rule that passed must be reviewed and checked for validity. In some cases not everyone agrees and in some cases everyone agrees. It is easy to become an monday morning quarterback. It is very difficult to become an sunday afternoon star.

As far as changing parts in an engine for $200 and being a world beater... IN MY BOOK THIS IS CALLED CHEATING! If someone decides to cheat, they have made a decision to do so. Regardless of the rules they have chosen to cheat. IF anyone feels strongly about a contestant not following the rules please read the protest proceedures. IF you feel strongly about another competitor's engine ensist that your local area enforce the claiming rule that exists in the provisional section of the 424 rules.

How to deal with suspected cheating...
1. you can complain about.
2. you talk about that person behind their back.
3. you can ignore it.
4. you can work harder.
5. you can confront the person face to face.
6. you can put your money where your mouth is and protest the individual or individuals.

The trend here is that only you can make a difference. So either become part of the solution or remain part of the problem. This is not directed to anyone specifically in this post unless it pertains to your position on cheating.

Doug, you have forgotten about FORMULA 2 and 1/2A racing.

Dan

< Message edited by kane -- 10/10/2006 1:35:39 PM >


_____________________________

Dan Kane

(in reply to luv to race)
       Post #: 4

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 3:40:22 PM   
luv to race


 

Posts: 465
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: Liquored, FL,
Status: offline
So as far as SEMPRA goes. Sounds like all Jack would need to do is write a proposal to the SEMPRA president concerning the RPM thing and the 428 flyers crossing over to 424. There's no reason why we can't make all this happen on the local level for SEMPRA.

Dan. When a rule is proposed. Is there anything written by the proposer that explains in some detail as to why the proposer wishes to have a/the rule altered?

Randy

(in reply to kane)
       Post #: 5

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 4:00:20 PM   
kane


 

Posts: 255
Joined: 6/28/2002
From: Arlington Heights, IL, USA
Status: offline
Randy,

I don't know the procedures for SEMPRA. However, I would think that all it would take is some discussion amoung the group. Here in the CAPS we had the FAB 5 which consisted of 5 members who would decide on such things. AND for sure there is absolutely no reason why you can't re-instate the 16500 rule at the local level. If this will increase participation, more power to you guys.

As far as the proposal process for the AMA, there is a section titled intent. This intent needs to be defined, and is filled out by the proposer.

In regards to the intent of the 428 weight increase... I don't recall the exact wording, but I remember it to be along the lines of updating the rules to be more consistant with 422, which is 50 square inches smaller and .5 lb heavier. The logic was that the same equipment is being used for both events and the airframes are smaller but can weigh more.

Dan

_____________________________

Dan Kane

(in reply to luv to race)
       Post #: 6

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 4:21:53 PM   
garys


 

Posts: 740
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
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Randy, exactly. There's nothing that prevents SEMPRA from adding additional limitations as they see fit. I think the rules proposals do have an explanation for the rules change.

The APRA rules have been used on the west coast since before the 424 rules have been around. The rules require the approved engines to be "stock". Modified or aftermarket top-ends, heads, ect, are not stock. The APRA rules have never had an RPM limit. The reason was how exactly should it be enforced? Is the RPM max to be done at "peak" or the "flight needle" setting? I don't think the 424 rule with the RPM limit said how the RPM was to be checked. Frankly, a stock, well broken-in TT40 can turn some stock 9-6 APC's over 16,500, so you're going to penalize a guy that properly breaks in his engine because it turned 16,600 when it was checked? I also don't believe an RPM limit will eliminate cheating, or not having one will promote cheating. What will help prevent cheating is tech inspections. Your example proves this point, as somebody had their engine inspected before the race, then went and changed it prior to the contest. The only way to have a rule that can prevent cheating is to have a rule that says anything goes.....The only real way to reduce cheating is to inspect things.

_____________________________

GS

(in reply to luv to race)
       Post #: 7

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 6:48:27 PM   
luv to race


 

Posts: 465
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: Liquored, FL,
Status: offline
Good points Gary, thanks. When/If Jack decides to write a rule he needs to be specific about what method of "peak rpm" is to be used.

I also agree, it's hard to enforce. Hell, it's all getting hard to enforce. people fueling in the pits, no scale to weigh planes, then when there is a scale the guys just walk back to the pits and you have to go remind them to come back to weigh. On and on... Sounds like Freeman Jr had the scales working last weekend though, so maybe things will get turned around out here.

great input guys, thanx
RB

(in reply to garys)
       Post #: 8

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 7:00:16 PM   
daven



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Andover, MN, USA
Status: offline
With the revised weight limit for 2007, I sure hope scales are used at contests.

_____________________________

Dave Norman

klasskote.com
supertrc.com

(in reply to luv to race)
       Post #: 9

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 10:45:30 PM   
garys


 

Posts: 740
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline
You can bet they will be in Phoenix, not sure about other places though....

_____________________________

GS

(in reply to daven)
       Post #: 10

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/10/2006 10:57:50 PM   
Scorpion Racing



Posts: 176
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Lake Wales, FL, USA
Status: offline
Jack is correct, as well as most of the other comments too. Rick and I, along with the SEMPRA leaders made it a point to do Tech inspections at registration, safety inspections, full measurements for rule compliance, fueling stations and impounding the planes prior to the race and weighing EVERY heat winner prior to awarding points. We also did 424 line inspections throughout the day, just to keep everyone honest. And you know what? We had a wonderful turnout, really tight racing and a great season opener!! I believe if you do the inspections, and hold everyone to the rules, it sets everyones mind at ease that they have an even field, and rules out the !QUOT!cheating!QUOT! excuses! I feel the race went very well, and everyone I spoke with felt so too. I agree with Jack, lets enforce the rules, hold the competitor responsible for his actions, and see who comes out at the end.


Scott Smith


_____________________________

Scott Smith
ssmith@hansonwalter.com

(in reply to garys)
       Post #: 11

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/11/2006 2:54:51 AM   
Sandbag Special



Posts: 84
Joined: 12/9/2003
From: Jupiter, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

FELLOW RACERS:

I am talking to SEMPRA members only!


Matt


_____________________________

Matthew Fehling
Fly Fast Turn Left!

(in reply to Scorpion Racing)
       Post #: 12

RE: SEMPRA Members - 10/11/2006 3:26:21 AM   
SCORPION 2


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 7/14/2003
From: Lakeland, FL, USA
Status: offline
First of all I would like to thank everyone that turned out at the race in Mulberry last weekend. I hope that everyone enjoyed the weekend as much as I did running in on Saturday and racing in it on Sunday. I wish we could draw some of the member states racers down here for a race or two. I know that some of us in FL are looking at coming up North for a race here and there.

Secondly, I would also like to thank Gary for his assistance in getting and pushing for us to be tighter on the tech inspections and weighing the heat winners. Because of this, we had a very competitive weekend unlike I have seen before. Many of the heats were decided within a second between first and second place. For the first time we could have used a photo finish to determine several heats. GREAT FLYING GUYS!!

Thirdly, as a novice 424 racer, I entered this class/event/sport/hobby as a way to learn the ropes and hopefully be competitive in my class and maybe someday move up to the 428 class. As a beginner I knew that I could not beat the guys that have been racing for several years yet I knew that if I was on a level playing field, there was always a chance as I learned the ropes. All I heard about when I first started was a shim here or a reporting there would give you an (illegal) edge. I don’t have the money to go out and buy 10 engines and swap parts until I have the fastest engine that would run over 16,50